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Speaking in Tongues

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BibleJunky

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BT said:
The gift of tongues does not exist today. So, no there will be no interpreter provided. :)


Not normally but of course you will find some who believe that they do. I have never in my experience been to a Baptist church that practices this particular kind of thing.


People don't receive this gift any longer because it does not exist. It ended with the apostolic office. It is not longer required today, and tongues as practiced in some denomination do not reflect the Biblical gift of tongues in the early church. Don't be deceived, don't worry about tongues the gift is irrelavent.


Ask, ask, ask. Learn, learn, learn!

Maranatha

Uhmmmm... I'm a Baptist and I totally disagree with this! I guess Peter was only kidding in Acts 2:39 when he said... "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

The notion that tongues died off is based on MEN'S opinions. Not on Solid Scriptural Evidence.

BibleJunky
 
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BibleJunky

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Glorified said:
Well if it doesn't say in the Bible that it doesn't exsist anymore then why is it assumed?
Because most Baptist are truly AFRIAD of the Holy Spirit, and Afraid that they might lose control of a Service. that would be unGodly. at least in there eyes. ^_^, It assumed, because for a period, the gifts were not being praticed. But The Lord in his timing brought it back.

BibleJunky
 
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@@Paul@@

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BibleJunky said:
The notion that tongues died off is based on MEN'S opinions. Not on Solid Scriptural Evidence.
III. History of Tongues Movement

A. Tongues Began on Pentecost

They were a "visible sign" to the Jews that the Apostles and believers were indwelled with the Holy Spirit. The tongues that were spoken were "known languages" of the that day. (Acts 2:1-13).

B. Tongues Spoken by Gentiles

While Paul was preaching the Gospel at the home of Cornelius the gentiles who heard the message began speaking in tongues (other known languages) and the Jewish believers who were present were
astonished that even the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit. (Acts 10:23-48).

C. Tongues Listed as a Spiritual Gift

Paul in writing to the Corinthian Church, gives a listing of the valid Spiritual Gifts for that day and Tongues is the last listed (1 Cor 12:4-11).

D. Tongues Misused in The Church

Paul rebukes the Corinthian Church for an apparent misuse of the Gift of Tongues in the Church and gives some guidance on the proper use of the gift (1 Cor 14:1-40).

E. Tongues Declared to Someday "Be Stilled"

The Scriptures reveal that a day would come when tongues would "be stilled" (1 Cor 13:8). They would stop in and of themselves. That is, no outside force would cause them to cease. The verb
translated "be stilled" is the greek word "pauo" which has the clear meaning that the activity will stop "in and of itself." They will "be stilled" by no external action or event; rather, tongues
will "die out" on their own.

F. Tongues Ceased to be Mentioned in Scripture

The gift of tongues does not appear in Scripture after Paul's discussion of their misuse in his first letter to the Corinthians. There is one other mention of tongues chronologically in the Bible but appears in the textually unsound and contestable passages of Mark 16:9-20. These verses do not appear in the two most reliable early manuscripts of the gospel and most likely were added by a scribe.

(Note: The following information listed in items G. through J. was extracted from the book "The Truth about Tongues," John MacArthur, Word of Grace, pp. 15-18, 1984).

G. Early Church Fathers did not Mention Tongues as Valid in Their Day

1. Clement of Rome - wrote a letter to the Corinthians in 95 A.D. discussing all of their spiritual problems. Tongues were never mentioned.

2. Justin Martyr - compiled a listing of spiritual gifts active in his time (A.D. 100-165) and did not include the gift of tongues.

3. Origen - never mentioned tongues and even argued that the "signs" of the Apostolic Age were temporary and that no contemporary Christian exercised any of these early "sign" gifts. (A.D. 185-253).

4. Chrysostom - writing on 1 Corinthians and the gift of tongues said, "This whole place is very obscure; but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by the cessation, being such as then used to occur, but now no longer take place." (A.D. 347-407).

5. Augustine - comments on Acts 2:4: "In the earliest times, 'the Holy Ghost fell upon them that believed: and they spake with tongues,'. . .These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit. . .That thing was done for a betokening, and it passed away."

H. Supposed Occurrences of Tongues Since the Apostolic Age

1. Montanus and Tertullian - During the period of the early church the only people who were reported to have spoken in tongues were the followers of Montanus and Tertullian. Montanus, a recent convert, claimed to be the spokesman for the Holy Spirit. He believed that Christ would soon set up the Kingdom in the city of Phrygia, and tried to justify speaking in tongues as an occurrence of the end of the age. Montanus was expelled from the church as a heretic. Tertullian was a disciple of Montanus who advocated speaking in tongues as well. He lived from A.D. 150-222. (After Montanus and Tertullian, the next eruption of tongues was not until the late seventeenth century.)

2. The Cevenols - The gift of ecstatic utterance was claimed by a group of persecuted Protestants in southern France around 1685. They believed that their little children, who knew only the local dialect, were able to speak in perfect french while in a trance. The group was soon discredited because of their night raids and military reprisals against their enemies. And because all their prophecies went unfulfilled, they were branded as heretics and not considered to be a part of Mainline Christianity.

3. The Jansenists - Around 1731, a group of Roman Catholic reformers called the Jansenists, were holding night meetings at their leader's tomb during which they supposedly spoke in ecstatic languages.

4. The Shakers - The Shakers were followers of Mother Ann Lee, who lived from 1736-1784. She regarded herself as the female equivalent of Jesus Christ--God in a female body. She founded the Shaker community in Troy, New York, and claimed that she had received a revelation from God that sexual intercourse was corrupt. . .even within marriage. It is said that in order to teach her followers to mortify the flesh and to resist temptation, she instituted the practice of men and women dancing together in the nude while they spoke in tongues.

5. The Irvingites - About 1830, Edward Irving started a little group in London known as the Irvingites. This group began to speak in tongues but was soon discredited for several reasons: Their revelations contradicted Scripture, their prophecies went unfulfilled, their supposed healings were followed by death, there were rumors of immorality, and some of their leading members were accused of fraud.

I. The Pentecostal Movement

Tongues became a part of mainline Christianity in 1901 at Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas. Agnes Ozman received what she called "the baptism of the Holy Spirit" accompanied by speaking in
tongues.

J. The Charismatic Movement

In 1960, in Van Nuys, California, the modern Charismatic movement began in an Episcopalian church. It soon spread across mainline denominations of all kinds.

Today the Tongues movement has taken hold in nearly all denominations. There are Evangelicals, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, and even Mormons claiming the "unity of the Spirit" through the Charismatic movement. Never have we seen such a unifying of the separated denominations as we have seen in recent years.

Though the Charismatic Movement is widespread the question we need to answer is, "Is it Biblical?"" Lets begin our investigation with a look at the purpose of tongues.​

http://www.biblebb.com/files/tongues.htm
 
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BibleJunky

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Sword-In-Hand said:
Some people use these verses in the Bible to say that the gifts would disappear after the apostolic office.

1st Corinthians 13:10-11--"[10]But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.[11]When I was a child I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

That which is perfect is thought to be the completion of the Bible. So in essence when the New Testament cannon was completed then these gifts would pass away.

As for verse 11, it has been interpreted as saying that when the church was young these gifts were neccessary to help the church grow and the gift of tongues was the ability to speak in other languages so others could understand the gospel. So when the church matured, these gifts weren't needed and they would pass away. When Paul says, he spoke as a child, it could be referring to the gift of tongues, when he understood could be referring to the gift of prophecy and when he thought as a child could be referring to the gift of knowledge. So when he matured in Christ all of these gifts would pass away because they were no longer needed to help the church grow.

Not only is that wrong, it's MEN's opinion! That verse of scripture is referring to our KNOWEDGE OF THE WORD, not the completed Bible! :doh: That is one of the most misunderstood verses of the Bible. The english translations of the Bible are not perfect, as they were translated by MEN and not by angels!

This part here...:

But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away
Is referring to when we get to Heaven, and THEN our knowledge will be complete!

BibleJunky
 
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BT

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BibleJunky said:
Uhmmmm... I'm a Baptist and I totally disagree with this! I guess Peter was only kidding in Acts 2:39 when he said... "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

The notion that tongues died off is based on MEN'S opinions. Not on Solid Scriptural Evidence.

BibleJunky
Well that took a bit longer than I expected, and I admit that this is the first time I've seen this scripture used in a conversation about tongues.

Let us take a deep breath my brother and consider your opinion. Show us how Acts 2:39 has to do with tongues...

I would suggest you go at it from this angle

"For the promise is unto you and to your children and to all that are afar off..."

What promise?

Unto whom?
 
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BT

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BibleJunky said:
No, It doesn't. and they're gonna throw all sorts of scriptures at you trying to say that it does... But beleive me, it doesn't.

BibleJunky
This I find is a sad response. You are more than welcome to "throw" scriptures at me to show that it does exist or that the gift is necessary for today. I would also like you to show me why it disappeared for nigh on 1000 years and suddenly reappeared in one of the most corrupt movements in all of Christianity. I'd like to believe you.... so show me..
 
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BibleJunky

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@@Paul@@ said:
I'm not saying that at all...

There is a valid "scriptural" reason the Gifts of Power ceased (ALL of them).



Phi 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;​
...or, Try the things that differ. i.e. The gift of Tongues, Healing, Spiritual Transportation, Blinding people, Raising from the Dead, Drinking Poison, etc. etc... is not Normal Operating Proceedure for Christianity today. Something happened and we need to "try the things that are different, so that we can approve the things that are excellent".
Hmmmmmm... Let's try reading that verse in it's entire context... First off what you are quoting is a prayer of blessing to all the saints of the Church of Philippi...here's let's pick up where you should have started quoting this...:

All verses are from the The Holman Christian Standard Bible:
And I pray this: that your love will keep on growing in knowledge and every kind of discernment so that you can determine what really matters and can be pure and blameless in the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Now tell me, where do you get out of this that tongues had died off by now? From what I understand the Church at Philippi was one of the many Churches were the signs and wonders were in FACT TAKING PLACE! Paul was telling these guys, I'm praying that you continue to grow in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ and Spiritual desernment. Which by the way, is a gift of the Holy Spirit. and also, he was telling them, I hope you can figure out what really matters, and be pure and blameless in the Day of our Lord, when he returns! None of this has ANYTHING to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit!

Try again....

Blessings,

BibleJunky


 
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BT

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BibleJunky said:
Because most Baptist are truly AFRIAD of the Holy Spirit, and Afraid that they might lose control of a Service. that would be unGodly. at least in there eyes. ^_^, It assumed, because for a period, the gifts were not being praticed. But The Lord in his timing brought it back.

BibleJunky

Ok now THIS is the most ridiculous notion that I've ever heard.

ACK!

Baptists are AFRAID of the Holy Spirit? ROFL

Losing control of a service is not unGodly? ROFL (you need to read your Bible)

It assumed, because for a periord, the gifts were not being practiced. But the Lord in his timing brought it back. ?? Now who's giving "Man's opinion" (not to mention a totally unscriptural and silly opinion).

ACK!
 
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@@Paul@@

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BT said:
Ok now THIS is the most ridiculous notion that I've ever heard.

ACK!

Baptists are AFRAID of the Holy Spirit? ROFL

ACK!
My sentiments exactly!!

wow, does that go... uhm... AAAACCCCCKkkkkkkkkkk!!



(I've had to read it enough times, I should be able to repeat it ;) )
 
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BT

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@@Paul@@ said:
My sentiments exactly!!

wow, does that go... uhm... AAAACCCCCKkkkkkkkkkk!!



(I've had to read it enough times, I should be able to repeat it ;) )

LOL!!

I think it sounds like that when I jump off a building, but with mabey a more sudden end. ;)

Hey! You haven't had to read that in... hours! LOL
 
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@@Paul@@

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BibleJunky said:
Hmmmmmm... Let's try reading that verse in it's entire context... First off what you are quoting is a prayer of blessing to all the saints of the Church of Philippi...here's let's pick up where you should have started quoting this...:

All verses are from the The Holman Christian Standard Bible:
And I pray this: that your love will keep on growing in knowledge and every kind of discernment so that you can determine what really matters and can be pure and blameless in the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Now tell me, where do you get out of this that tongues had died off by now? From what I understand the Church at Philippi was one of the many Churches were the signs and wonders were in FACT TAKING PLACE! Paul was telling these guys, I'm praying that you continue to grow in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ and Spiritual desernment. Which by the way, is a gift of the Holy Spirit. and also, he was telling them, I hope you can figure out what really matters, and be pure and blameless in the Day of our Lord, when he returns! None of this has ANYTHING to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit!

Try again....

Blessings,

BibleJunky
10_3_1v.gif


I like the other Paul, Hope you can figure out what really matters and put away "childish" things.
 
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@@Paul@@

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BT said:
LOL!!

I think it sounds like that when I jump off a building, but with mabey a more sudden end. ;)

Hey! You haven't had to read that in... hours! LOL
kinda like: AaaaaaaaaaacccccccccccccccccccccccccKuh...

ROFL.

Oh, i'll think of something (or NOT think of something, which ever the case may be) :)
 
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Gold Dragon

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BT said:
I would also like you to show me why it disappeared for nigh on 1000 years and suddenly reappeared in one of the most corrupt movements in all of Christianity.
Hey BT. I find this quote interesting. Why do you consider the Charismatic/Holiness/Pentecostal movement one of the most corrupt movements in all of Christianity? Is it because of the Word-of-Faith movement within Pentecostalism?

I view Pentecostalism in a much more positive light and was curious about this response. Thanks.
 
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@@Paul@@

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Glorified said:
Thanks @@paul@@ and others for sheding some light on this subject. Maybe I had better just let it go.
You were not out of line...

This is something that you have to figure out on your own... If you first believe tongues is valid today, then you'll read the bible and find that is the case. We're only human.

I started studying this almost a year ago, after beginning to date a charismatic. I could not explain to her WHY i believed tongues had ceased.... So i began to study, at which point i accepted tongues as a relevant "gift" for today.... then something happened.

anyway... I believe God can give the gift of tongues today (and use it to spread the gospel), just like He can heal. But it's NOT the same conditions OR ministry as was in the Acts period. - Which is why i quoted the "try the things that differ - approve those more excellent" verse; To aid you in your study.
:)


Instead of tongues; How about lets first study WHY God chose Abraham, What is God purpose for Israel AND What is God's purpose for the Church, which is His Body???...

All you have to do, is answer all those questions, the rest is easy as pie.
 
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BT

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Gold Dragon said:
Hey BT. I find this quote interesting. Why do you consider the Charismatic/Holiness/Pentecostal movement one of the most corrupt movements in all of Christianity? Is it because of the Word-of-Faith movement within Pentecostalism?

I view Pentecostalism in a much more positive light and was curious about this response. Thanks.
Hey GD,

I should clarify yes. I meant the movements which they began in were corrupt, not that the Charismatics and Pentacostals of today, but rather of that time (those specific teachers). I agree there is much good in the Pentacostal movement today and though I would disagree with them on the gifts issue and various other minor points, I do not view them as corrupt. Thanks for asking that question I wouldn't want people to take it the wrong way. Now the WOF is one of the most corrupt movements in the world, and I would add that most Pentacostals that I know, outright reject WOF heresy. (One half of my family is Pentacostal... my "better" halfs side).
 
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Gold Dragon

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BT said:
Hey GD,

I should clarify yes. I meant the movements which they began in were corrupt, not that the Charismatics and Pentacostals of today, but rather of that time (those specific teachers). I agree there is much good in the Pentacostal movement today and though I would disagree with them on the gifts issue and various other minor points, I do not view them as corrupt. Thanks for asking that question I wouldn't want people to take it the wrong way. Now the WOF is one of the most corrupt movements in the world, and I would add that most Pentacostals that I know, outright reject WOF heresy. (One half of my family is Pentacostal... my "better" halfs side).
Cool. That is what I assumed you meant.

Regarding Word-of-Faith, I would agree that it is a movement with some serious doctrinal and ethical issues. I have listened to Yong-gi Cho speak and through the whole sermon I was trying to be critical and find doctrinal problems with his words. Interestingly, my outlook afterwards was that while I disagree with some of his teachings, I have great respect for his relationship with God, his unshakeable faith and his perspective on the bible.

While I feel that a person who is unfamiliar with the bible may draw faulty conclusions from Word-of-Faith teaching, someone who is familiar with the bible would be able to filter out the misleading parts to reveal a glimpse of the awesome power of the Holy Spirit that our rationalistic minds often suppress.

I had some great discussions with Christians who are sympathetic to the movement and I felt that there is something that we could learn from those in the Word-of-Faith movement. I still feel that they have many serious problems but I didn't want to throw out the good with the bad in my criticism of the movement.
 
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Kristi1

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Glorified said:
What is this exactly? I mean I realize that it's a gift that God gives you. But for what reason? What purpose does this serve exactly. There's people that do it without an interpreter, is that just for show? Will God always provide an interpreter if it's for his will? How does one know?

Also is it common for Baptist to speak in tongue? I don't hear about it a lot but yet it's suppose to be a gift from God. Why don't more people receive this gift?

Sorry for all of the questions.


no it's NOT common for a Baptist to speak in tounges at all!!

The Bible says, Let them that speak in Tounges let them have a interpreter..


Please see the Link below about tounges;

I Corinthians CHAPTER 12
Holy Bible -- King James Version




Love Sisters and Brothers,

KristiAnn
AKA
MsGuidedAngel
 
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