Speaking in Tongues?

[Andry]

I believe in the first…as a miracle/gift. Not in the second. I don’t understand in what situation would mere words not be enough.

Onionring, there are more stars in the universe than all the words of all our languages put together. Yet God named them all. And while there are some truly great works of literature and some truly great writers, even their 'best' will fall short in the languages we know, of how at times we desire to express ourselves to God.

 

[adamdavid]

...there are more stars in the universe than all the words of all our languages put together. Yet God named them all.

Nicely put... never thought of that one before... I'm going to have to use that one sometime

blessings...
AdamDavid

 

[Bartimaeus]

Nicely put... never thought of that one before... I'm going to have to use that one sometime

blessings...
AdamDavid

You know, that message even has me thinking, which is really cool.

 

[rhemarob]

Interesting point. I guess that is really were I come into problem believing in speaking in tongues. God sent Jesus to die for our sins to "cut out the middle man". Allowing us once again to be holy and communicate/worship Him the way He created us to.

Seems rather odd, that He would re-establish indirect communication (needs to be interpreted) as a blessing over our newly establish direct communication,....which He established by having Christ die for us.

Seems to cheapen Christ's established direct communication of prayer.

The only times tongues needs interpreted is for the edification of the church it has nothing to do with the direct communication of prayer.

private tongues - no interpretation - direct communication from your spirit to God

corporate tongues during prayer/worship - no interpretation - direct communication from your spirit to God

Tongues spoken as a message to the church - needs interpretation since it is meant to edify the church body.

 

[rhemarob]

Okay, what if (like me) you seem to be too freaked out to even "accept" the gift if, indeed, it is a gift you are supposed to have? I guess I'm trying to discern if it is a gift I am meant to have, or if I am getting in the way of having it, but I am supposed to have it.

Did that make sense?

I resisted it at first , I didn't speak right away when I was filled with the Holy Spirit but the next day in the shower I opened my mouth and it just started coming out.

 

[rhemarob]

I wonder about this also. On a related note, I always thought that speaking in tongues didn't mean speaking in "another language" so to speak, but rather that when someone is speaking in tongues whoever is listening will hear thier own language coming out of the person's mouth. I got this idea from this passage:

ACTS 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. (KJV)

Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but that is how I understood it.

That piece of scripture all by itself could lead a person to think that way but consider these scriptures as well.


1 Corinthians 14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Pretty much the strongest scripture for tongues being a language between man and God.

1 Corinthians 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself.

If your simply speaking a foreign language how could that edify you?
I speak english and if I sat around all day and prayed in Russian I wouldn't feel edified at all.

Romans 8:26-27

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[1] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Jude 1:20

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

________________________________________________________________

 

[kermit the toad]

rhemarob: Thanks for those other quotes! Definitely alters my understanding of "tongues."

 

[elanor]

Okay, what if (like me) you seem to be too freaked out to even "accept" the gift if, indeed, it is a gift you are supposed to have? I guess I'm trying to discern if it is a gift I am meant to have, or if I am getting in the way of having it, but I am supposed to have it.

Did that make sense?

Perfect sense, Bartimeus. I think I was too freaked out for a long time to receive a prayer language. But I knew I still wanted that. I actually desired this gift for about 10 years before I ever spoke a word in tongues. I had pretty much decided God must not mean it for me. That was that, until one night I was lying in bed with my mind sort of drifting in and out of prayer -- not thinking about a prayer language at all -- when I found myself praying in tongues. It was more limited at first, and now I find it grows all the time. When I pray I move seamlessly between English and my prayer language. I have realized that there are certain words and phrases that seem to always come up when I am praying for the same thing (say, healing for someone), while different words come when I pray for something else (like peace or comfort). And some words weave through every prayer. It's not something I put conscious effort into. Sometimes I am praying in English, and stop speaking, but still have whatever I'm holding in prayer wordlessly in my mind--perhaps just the sense of love for the person I'm praying for, or sorrow over a situation--and begin to pray in tongues. My mind is still on holding the need before God, but I'm not putting thought into forming words.

I do want to say that even before I began praying in tongues, my prayer life was very rich. I was very much aware of the presence of the Holy Spirit when I prayed. I have been told that I have a gift of intercessory prayer, and I think that's probably true. Praying in tongues was an extension of an already rich ongoing prayer life. For me, it didn't transform my prayer life. It was more of a natural growing process--like taking the next logical step. I suspect it's as individual as each believer. I do know that if I never received a prayer language, my prayer life would still be wonderful. It is not the words themselves that are significant, but the presence of the Spirit of God who inhabits our prayers that matters. He hears our hearts, communicates with our spirits, and gives meaning to our words--whatever language they are spoken in.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Thank you, Eleanor. That helps me a lot.

We'll see what time, and the Holy Spirit have to say.

 

[Andrew]

I believe in the first…as a miracle/gift. Not in the second. I don’t understand in what situation would mere words not be enough.

If I came to you and told you I am undergoing a very difficult time and asked you to pray for me, what would you pray?

I didnt give you any details or only the jist of the problem so how are you going to pray accurately and/or scripturally for me?

Your prayer is limited to what you know. It is also limited by how well you can construct your sentences or how well you can express the problem to God.

Or when you are so caught up in worship to God, how many times are you going to say "hallelujah, praise you Lord, bless you,"? nothing wrong with that but seems kinda limited, doesn't it? I mean, I'm sure your soul or spirit wants to let out so much more... but alas, you are limited by your vocabulary and your English.

 

[onionring]

Onionring, there are more stars in the universe than all the words of all our languages put together. Yet God named them all. And while there are some truly great works of literature and some truly great writers, even their 'best' will fall short in the languages we know, of how at times we desire to express ourselves to God.

First let me say,...it's getting harder for me to talk on my points. Not because of logic or scripture...but because instead,...most of the points FOR tongues are based on personal beliefs and experiences.

I hope everyone understands I truly am looking for understanding...and please doesn’t take my questioning to be a personal insult. I'm not questioning your personal experiences, rather trying to find truth. And hopefully get scripture and wisdom to transform my understanding into a belief...one way or another. Though...I'm starting to wonder if I'm only moving side-ways not forward.

Ok.... moving on from my disclaimer.

While I dig your saying too, I fail to see how the limitation of men, and/or their languages, proves the existence of one created by God? Good saying. Correct concept...men limited, God unlimited. But fails to obtain support for your point.

Let me ask another question. Here is something I was pondering yesterday. If tongues are a gift from God...because you become filled with the Holy Spirit, then why doesn't God bestow this gift on other Holy follower of the non-charismatic persuasion? I mean, if tongues is a symptom/gift of intimate communication with God…why not me or anyone I know. Am I lacking something? I shouldn’t have to believe in tongues in order for God to give me the gift…right? Or is it that once non-Charismatics experience tongues they “convert”…hence why it is not professed more widespread by other denominations?

Disclaimer…not trying to offend anyone…I would like to continue this thread.

 

[wonder111]

the gift of tongues comes to people of all denominations. I didn't even know what charismatic was, honestly. I have attended the methodist church for the majority of my life and that's still where I belong. Although I only understand the personal prayer language, I have never been to a church that speaks out loud with an interpreter.

I also believe that each individual has their own way of communicating with God, like Eleanor said

 

[Bartimaeus]

Amen.

Some people feel the need, for example, to kneeel every time they pray...some even go into a closet. I know, that has nothing to do with tongues, per se, but it makes a point about the individual and their communication with God.

 

[Col]

Prayer is like Love, you know what it is, but it is difficult to explain and different for everyone. Someone once asked Mother Theresea how she prayed and what she prayed about, and she simply answered "I listen". When I heard this quote it really blew me away and I often think about it and try to practice it.
My point is that Prayer can be shouting in a crowd or sitting alone in silence. It is not the form that it takes but the sincerity in which it is undertaken that is of importance. God knows your heart and He alone is able to judge.

Bless Ya
Col <><

 

[tonya]

Yes..all of the above is very true... in fact when I pray I let that still small voice inside me lead me when I pray!! When I am burdened about something...I listen to the Holy Spiritand Iam shown how to pray for someone and lead to the words to pray and what to present to my Father in Heaven...also I have been awaken late at night with a prayer burden and have woke up and prayed right then....

 

[onionring]

the gift of tongues comes to people of all denominations. I didn't even know what charismatic was, honestly. I have attended the methodist church for the majority of my life and that's still where I belong. Although I only understand the personal prayer language, I have never been to a church that speaks out loud with an interpreter.

I meant Charismatic as a group, not denomination or specific church name...perhaps I have misspoken. Excuse me.

I also believe that each individual has their own way of communicating with God, like Eleanor said

Makes it sound more like a preference, than a gift from God.

 

[adamdavid]

Let me ask another question. Here is something I was pondering yesterday. If tongues are a gift from God...because you become filled with the Holy Spirit, then why doesn't God bestow this gift on other Holy follower of the non-charismatic persuasion? I mean, if tongues is a symptom/gift of intimate communication with God…why not me or anyone I know. Am I lacking something? I shouldn’t have to believe in tongues in order for God to give me the gift…right? Or is it that once non-Charismatics experience tongues they “convert”…hence why it is not professed more widespread by other denominations?

Many times (I know many people who fit this description...), He DOES give the gift to people of the non-charismatic persuasion... I remember several years ago when that happened at a local church... I was raised in the Seventh-Day Adventist church, and among other things, the gifts of the spirit and any sort of manifestations are shunned with a passion within that particular denomination... a few years ago, while one of the local SDA churches (a rather liberal "celebration" church that was already considered more or less part of the "fringe" of Adventism...) had an outpouring of the Holy Spirit... among other things, the gift of tongues was given to several people at this church that had always preached against it... and guess what? the people themselves thought it was awesome... unfortunately, the denomination was not so happy, and the church (or at least the large portion, including the pastor, that chose to embrace this "thing of Satan"...) were asked kindly to leave the denomination and do their own thing... basically, it wasn't all that pretty... I think thats why God doesnt give the gift to those of, as you said, a "non-charismatic persuasion" quite as often... some tend to not be receptive, and others go through lots of hardships as a result of their receptiveness, and sometimes (like in the case discussed above...), it ends in lots of bitterness and anger... God just isn't into that kind of thing... (I'm sure other people have better responses, but thats mine )

Makes it sound more like a preference, than a gift from God.

In some ways it is... while God enables it, I am very much in control of whether it is my spirit or my mind doing the praying! There are some people who are just content to not pray in tongues... thats really up to them, though God would never hold something like that back... if thats not what floats your boat, thats just not what floats your boat

Late for class... tootles...

Blessings...
AdamDavd

 

[knightlight72]

I just wanted to say, and i hope I am not repeting someone else who said it, as I haven't read through the whole thread, but onionring has said about speaking in tongues, and who and why not all get that gift. I just wanted to clarify that not everyone will get that gift. That doesn't make anyone who doesn't have it less faithful. Just because someone is christian, does not mean ALL the gifts come your way. And if you don't have ALL the gifts, that is not a sign you are not a christian. Some gifts are meant for just some people. We don't determine what gifts we receive, God determines that. And if god doesn't think you need the gift of tongues, then you don't get it. God determines what gifts you do or don't receive, not your church.

 

[onionring]

...
In some ways it is... while God enables it, I am very much in control of whether it is my spirit or my mind doing the praying! There are some people who are just content to not pray in tongues... thats really up to them, though God would never hold something like that back... if thats not what floats your boat, thats just not what floats your boat
…

Interesting. So in a sense, speaking in tongues is like singing; it’s an optional form of worship. Both are simply preferred forms of worship? Correct?

 

[onionring]

I just wanted to say, and i hope I am not repeting someone else who said it, as I haven't read through the whole thread, but onionring has said about speaking in tongues, and who and why not all get that gift. I just wanted to clarify that not everyone will get that gift. That doesn't make anyone who doesn't have it less faithful. Just because someone is christian, does not mean ALL the gifts come your way. And if you don't have ALL the gifts, that is not a sign you are not a christian. Some gifts are meant for just some people. We don't determine what gifts we receive, God determines that. And if god doesn't think you need the gift of tongues, then you don't get it. God determines what gifts you do or don't receive, not your church.

Sure...I think it is understood that not everyone gets one or all gifts (if any)...God's not a socialist.

Yet, that was never in question. Let's be frank...certain denomination practice speaking in tongues. God doesn't care about denominations,....we are all His people...right? So explain to me why God seems to mainly give speaking in tongues gifts to Charismatics? Never known God to show favorism to specific denomination ... minus some cults that claim to be Christian and God's choosen people (only ones going to heaven).