Speaking in Tongues -- Modern Days

[Righttruth]

I have a bit more reverence when talking about gifts that the God who gave me life saw fit to give.

Are they least desired lower end gifts?

 

[Righttruth]

I always come to the same conclusion when reading your posts. Imagine that.

That is the Holy Spirit's working!

 

[dragongunner]

That is the Holy Spirit's working!

My response that you seemed to of missed was I have observed your attitudes and postings and seen the prejudice and bitterness when it comes to tongues and the Holy Ghost, you have some merits but the demerits over weigh the merits of your teachings and interpretations of the scriptures. Imagine while observing others, you are also observed….imagine that.

 

[Righttruth]

My response that you seemed to of missed was I have observed your attitudes and postings and seen the prejudice and bitterness when it comes to tongues and the Holy Ghost, you have some merits but the demerits over weigh the merits of your teachings and interpretations of the scriptures. Imagine while observing others, you are also observed….imagine that.

It is not with prejudice, it is with zeal to share the truth when people have made mountain out of a molehill! Twisting just one source to their liking unsupported by any other source in the entire Bible.

 

[Svt4Him]

Perhaps, God gave this gift temporarily to notorious Corinthians to keep them controlled. It ceased for hundreds of years before relapse about one hundred years ago.

So true, God gifts gifts to His kids for the same reason I give gifts to mine, to control them.

Too funny. If you being evil give gifts to your kids without an element of manipulation, wouldn't God do better?

And sometimes I think our worship towards God lack so much emotion that it becomes empty words, like a white washed tomb.

 

[Svt4Him]

We need to admit for the sake of the truth, that black people (no disrespect meant) are basically more emotional than other people. The person who revived this in USA was a black pastor. He died heart broken with the way the movement turned for worse!

As Paul said, it is OK in the beginning. But they need to grow spiritually to eat meat. Unfortunately, they learn more of acrobatics and all kinds of different sounds and forget about the fruit of the Spirit, self-control!

Too funny. I don't heal people like the Bible says I should because I have self-control. Don't raise the dead either, cause I walk in the gift of the Spirit, self-control, not self-righteousness.

 

[JCFantasy23]

So instead of looking for "Speaking in Tongues" (I'm sure a demon possession could do the same... but again I don't want to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, so I'm not going to judge who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and who is possessed by a demon) as evidence, we should really be doing what Christ Himself instructed us to do -- look for their fruits. Speaking in Tongues does nothing unless someone can understand what you're saying. God doesn't need you to speak in tongues to pray effectively; He knows what you're going to say before you even say it.

So... can we please stop using "Speaking in Tongues" as "Evidence" as to whether or not someone is Saved or Born-Again?

I agree with your post, and I feel the same way as you about speaking in tongues. We are not known by signs if we are saved - fruits do show it. But I tend not to judge that as much either as a Christian may be struggling with something that is not Christian like at the moment - I'm a firm believer it is something God knows for sure and cannot always tell as clearly if we don't know the person well.

Thankfully I don't think many churches feel speaking in tongues is a requirement, but when I've run into it with certain pentecostal churches it has always turned my stomach. I think it's a dangerous misconception in Christianity that will turn people away and make them doubt themselves too much. I've seen that happen to too many people close to me. I do know speaking in tongues was definitely not an intention to divide and confuse Christians, or make them feel inferior. If it were that important as a 'sign of salvation', surely God would have talked about it much more when it was spoken of people getting saved.

 

[Svt4Him]

Again, the only time Paul talks about interpreting tongues is in a church setting, but even then it is said it edifies the person speaking, not the congregation, so I fail to see how such simple instructions can be interpreted to mean it does nothing. I wonder if we can simply dismiss any other part of Scripture that makes our stomachs turn...for instance, I don't think God meant it when He said adulterers won't inherit the Kingdom of God, doesn't sit right.

In a church setting: If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

For those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people but to God; for nobody understands them, since they are speaking mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, those who prophesy speak to other people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 Those who speak in a tongue build up themselves, but those who prophesy build up the church.

So when someone says it does nothing, then I truly believe it does nothing to them, as they have no faith in the Word of God.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Again, the only time Paul talks about interpreting tongues is in a church setting, but even then it is said it edifies the person speaking, not the congregation, so I fail to see how such simple instructions can be interpreted to mean it does nothing. I wonder if we can simply dismiss any other part of Scripture that makes our stomachs turn...for instance, I don't think God meant it when He said adulterers won't inherit the Kingdom of God, doesn't sit right.

In a church setting: If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

For those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people but to God; for nobody understands them, since they are speaking mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, those who prophesy speak to other people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 Those who speak in a tongue build up themselves, but those who prophesy build up the church.

So when someone says it does nothing, then I truly believe it does nothing to them, as they have no faith in the Word of God.

I'm not sure if you were referring to my post above (can be hard to tell), but because of the 'stomach turn' line I used and that you also used, I want to clarify what makes my stomach turn is how I think some abuse the notion of the gifts and carry away with them like they are the most important things and, I think, distort them. I saw that in a revival I went to years back, and through a friend of mine who went to a church her in-laws attend that says everyone is able to speak in tongues if they're saved in every church service. It bothered her so much she bought a book on tongues to 'learn how' and whenever she hears about people doing it, she says she wishes she knew how and could. When she brought the concerns up at the church they told her she could but wasn't letting herself. To me this isn't sound teaching/belief and is placing too much emphasis on spiritual gifts over the other benefits of being a Christian and church worship.

Ironically I think I did speak in tongues, pretty sure, when I was baptized. It was not something I was thinking about beforehand, or expecting at all, and didn't fully align with my views on its purpose that is stated above. It's not something I have experience with or see much, and haven't been to any sermons about it in the Methodist church. It was at church but no one heard me (long story.) When I told her about it and shared the entire baptism experience, it seems it just makes her doubt herself, which I know isn't the intent of spiritual gifts.

 

[Svt4Him]

The idea that tongues aren't needed for edification would be fine, if no one needed edification. And it is a Spiritual gift. People can get hung up on gifts, sure, but people can get hung up on traditions, on knowledge, on deeds, on catechism, on teachings...none of them are bad in and of themselves. Add that to a man with feet of clay and of course there will be an element of error, we see in part we know in part.

I am not here to say what did or didn't happen nor if it was or wasn't right, I'm simply pointing the things that the Bible says about tongues, in the context that it's saying them, and reminding people it's a gift from God. And if someone feels bad when they're viewing a gift from God, then it may be there's something they have to deal with in the same way some felt bad when some types of music were first introduced into the church:

"Get rid of that flute at church. Trash that trumpet, too. What do you think we are, pagans?"

"Hymns that use rhyme and accent? Surely worship should sound different than a schoolyard ditty!"

 

[Righttruth]

So true, God gifts gifts to His kids for the same reason I give gifts to mine, to control them.Too funny. If you being evil give gifts to your kids without an element of manipulation, wouldn't God do better?

No wonder children think that Santa Clause is Jesus Christ for their amusement!

And sometimes I think our worship towards God lack so much emotion that it becomes empty words, like a white washed tomb.

With emotional outbursts in speaking gibberish, I wonder whether saints are turning in their graves!

 

[Righttruth]

Too funny. I don't heal people like the Bible says I should because I have self-control. Don't raise the dead either, cause I walk in the gift of the Spirit, self-control, not self-righteousness.

Without the fruit of the Spirit, gifts don't secure our salvation.

 

[com7fy8]

Speaking in Tongues does nothing unless someone can understand what you're saying.

Real speaking in tongues is a gift. And our gifts can minister God's own grace >

"Be hospitable to one another without grumbling. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:9-10)

Now, Paul says that if others are present while you speak in an unknown tongue, it is good to interpret so they can be edified . . . edified in their understanding > this is what I understand from 1 Corinthians 14:1-19. But even if understanding is not given, still the effect of grace can spread to one another. After all, if one prays alone, he "edifies himself" (in 1 Corinthians 14:4) > I understand that this edification can include being built up in God's love, because of grace which is the effect of God's own love in our character. This effect of grace is deeper than words, even what words can not tell.

God doesn't need you to speak in tongues to pray effectively;

Real praying in tongues involves the Holy Spirit speaking the prayer through you . . . so better than you can get yourself to pray. But, also, the Holy Spirit can fill us to pray in our own language; because, yes, God is not limited to tongues or to the language we know.

But while a person is speaking exactly what the Holy Spirit has him or her saying in an unknown language, the person is being perfectly controlled in submission to the Holy Spirit. So, this is good, and this can minister for the person to become more and more perfectly submissive, all the time, and not only to say what one says in prayer. So, any gift includes this submission to the Holy Spirit, so we can exercise to become more and more submissive at all times in God's love.

So, any gift is good for this; and so Satan will hate a real gift and produce counterfeits to trick us into assuming the fake stuff is all there is.

I see how people do not want to be submissive to the Holy Spirit and have Him inspiring what they say; so, then, "of course", they will not want for there to be real tongues, now. And they will welcome opportunities to see the fake stuff so they can point at that. How we ourselves really are can have a lot to do with what we are willing to believe; and we can filter out what does not agree with how we are wrong.

But can I prove that real tongues is still happening? No. But one time I was talking with a woman in a nursing home. She was Italian. And I learned some Italian while in Naples, Italy. So, I spoke some to her, but she just moved her head around. Then I was taken over into a very pure and beautiful spiritual state in my head, and I heard myself saying what sounded like very beautiful and pleasantly spoken words . . . for maybe about ten or so words. It sounded to me like they could have been in an Italian dialect. I had heard maybe two or three dialects, and it sounded like it could be somewhat related to Italian and the dialects I had heard.

Only after I had said those not-national-Italian words, she said something like, "How you speak Italian?" And another day her daughter told me she only could understand her own dialect and not national Italian, and her dialect was spoken on the other side of Italy, where I had never been. What did God say to her? I'm not going to go there, about what He might have said.

He knows what you're going to say before you even say it.

And what you say in prayer might not be what the Holy Spirit would have you saying, in any language! So, it is good to submit to how the Holy Spirit has us praying > Jude 20-21.

And, I understand and offer > prayer needs to be deeper than what we say.

"Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." (Romans 8:26)

So, how we can get ourselves to pray is certainly not enough!!

And I notice how the Holy Spirit's intercession is "with groanings which cannot be uttered."

Tongues can be uttered; so I consider this groaning of the Holy Spirit for us is deeper than any words, including deeper than tongues which can be uttered. I can see how love's communication is deeper than words. And Jude 20-21 tells us to pray "in the Holy Spirit" so we keep ourselves in God's love . . . where communication is deeper than words, I consider.

So, say-so prayer is not enough, and say-so even of real tongues is not enough. We need to submit to God and discover how He has us "praying in the Holy Spirit", as Jude 20-21 says to do. If we are "praying in the Holy Spirit", I can see that this means we will be praying "with groanings which cannot be uttered" not only with words, then, but in God's love with groanings of affection and appreciation for our Father and Jesus, and groanings of thanksgiving in family love with one another children of God, and groanings of compassion for ones in sin trouble and ones not saved.

Because love's prayer is not just talk, but "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16), and in love we have feelings and emotions and family caring and sharing

 

[Svt4Him]

Without the fruit of the Spirit, gifts don't secure our salvation.

And without faith it's impossible to please God.

 

[Svt4Him]

No wonder children think that Santa Clause is Jesus Christ for their amusement!

Oh, sorry, that was actually something God said about giving the Holy Spirit to those who ask, but I guess He was probably wrong, give gifts for manipulation then.

If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

So again, you being evil, do you give gifts to your kids to manipulate them, or does Santa?

With emotional outbursts in speaking gibberish, I wonder whether saints are turning in their graves!

You mean the saints that those who had a form of Godliness killed? Hmmm...I wonder too.

 

[dragongunner]

For those of who may not now it, Righttruth on another thread proclaimed that there were and only 12 apostles, when asks if he thought Baranabas and Paul were apostles his reply showed his true colors on his beliefs, which is unbelief in the scriptures.


Wednesday at 8:34 PM#128

RighttruthRegular Member

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Q. What about Barnabas and Paul?



Barnabas, Paul and James were not apostles. Paul's had self-claim and Luke went by secular definition for an apostle without understanding the spiritual aspect of apostleship as designated by Jesus!


Why someone who believes this and desires to post on a "christain forum" I have no ideal. But their will be false teachers among you comes to mind.

 

[Righttruth]

And without faith it's impossible to please God.

That is the first step. It should culminate with the fruit. Otherwise, faith is dead!

 

[Svt4Him]

That is the first step. It should culminate with the fruit. Otherwise, faith is dead!

Oh I just thought we were posting truths without context...sorry. But I do recall reading faith without fruit is dead. Nothing at all to do with the gift of tongues, but hey, squirrel....

 

[Righttruth]

For those of who may not now it, Righttruth on another thread proclaimed that there were and only 12 apostles, when asks if he thought Baranabas and Paul were apostles his reply showed his true colors on his beliefs, which is unbelief in the scriptures.

Do you believe Jesus and His ministry or equate the rank outsiders Luke and Paul with Jesus? Do you believe in the Gospel at all?


Wednesday at 8:34 PM#128

RighttruthRegular Member

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[Righttruth]

Oh I just thought we were posting truths without context...sorry. But I do recall reading faith without fruit is dead. Nothing at all to do with the gift of tongues, but hey, squirrel....

Do you think squirrel will qualify for salvation with its squeaking sounds?