• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Speaking in Tongues - Are we all wrong?

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,941
1,074
✟298,548.00
Faith
Christian

You might want to read the next 2 verses:

1 Cor 13:1-3 "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."

In this passage there are 5 parallel statements each with a hypothetical exaggerated example of a spiritual gift to make the point that having gifts even to the highest conceivable degree is worthless without love:

having the gift of tongues to ultimate degree of speaking the language of angels...

having the gift of prophesy to the ultimate degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge (ie. omniscience)...

having the gift of faith to the ultimate degree of moving mountains...

and having the gift of giving to the ultimate degree of giving way ALL your possessions, and even giving up your own life...

...are all worthless without love.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Melven

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,080
2,585
61
Wyoming
✟90,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Go back to the Acts 2 text I quoted, your position is refuted.

An unknown language is simply unknown to the speaker, but it is a human language as Acts 2 demonstrates plainly. You completely ignored the Linguistic Research.
Acts 22 refutes 1 Corinthians 14?

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
14:2 For he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
14:4 He that speaketh in an tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying

I took out the word "unknown" and as you can see it changes nothing.
Unless you want to take out the phrase "no man uderstands him, howbeit in the Spirit he speaks mysteries".
Also there is verse 5 where Paul wants them all to speak in Tongues, but he would rather that they prophesied.
If Tongues were just a known language, that verse would make no sense. Because you need a tongue, known language, to prophesy.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Melven

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,080
2,585
61
Wyoming
✟90,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Because they are like the Corinthians who Paul was correcting. That is they don't understand the proper way to speak in Tongues.
These churches that have everybody speaking in tongues at once think they are emulating the early church. Like what happened in Acts 2 where everybody spoke in tongues.
And they say they do it because they were not rebuked.
I liken that to a child's first attempts at eating, nobody rebukes a child like that when they get more food on there face than in there mouth.
But, if 10 years later that child is still getting more food on there face than in there mouth, something is wrong.
So any churches today that do not use Tongues properly are like a full grown adult getting more food on there face than in there mouth. Something's not right.
 
Upvote 0

gideon123

Humble Servant of God
Dec 25, 2011
1,185
583
USA
✟66,591.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Bible records clearly that when the real disciples spoke 'in tongues' that people from other lands understood them. The words were in foreign languages, but perfectly understandable to those hearing them. That was a true miracle.

This notion has been corrupted by modern churches. People stand up and talk complete gibberish.

So let's be clear. What is gibberish to man, is also gibberish to God. And I doubt for one second that God is happy to see his believers behaving in this way. It certainly does not honor God, in my view.

Better to stay silent and honor God with a sincere and respectful heart.
 
Upvote 0

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,941
1,074
✟298,548.00
Faith
Christian
I took out the word "unknown" and as you can see it changes nothing.
Unless you want to take out the phrase "no man uderstands him, howbeit in the Spirit he speaks mysteries".

So long as we remember that the context of this chapter is church meetings and the 'no man' is referring to people in the congregation. No one in the congregation would understand someone speaking in an unrecognized tongue. What was said would be a mystery. That doesn't mean it is a non-human language.

Also there is verse 5 where Paul wants them all to speak in Tongues, but he would rather that they prophesied.
If Tongues were just a known language, that verse would make no sense. Because you need a tongue, known language, to prophesy.

Prophecy would be in the common language that everyone in the congregation recognized. Not a foreign language that no one understands.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Melven

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,080
2,585
61
Wyoming
✟90,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Could you expound on 1 Corinthians 14:1-5, 13-15, 27-28, 39 ?
 
Upvote 0

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,941
1,074
✟298,548.00
Faith
Christian
And yet Paul wanted them all to speak in Tongues.

Paul's 'wish' in 1 Cor 14:5 is not saying that he expected everyone to speak in tongues. It was a wishful ideal the same as he wished everyone was single like him in 1 Cor 7.7 - not something he realistically expected to happen. Otherwise he would be contradicting himself because he makes it absolutely clear that not everyone would have the ability to speak in tongues:

1 Cor 12:29-30 "All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

Rom 12:4-6 "For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. "

1 Cor 12:8-10 "To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to anotherdistinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues."

1 Cor 12:17-20 "If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body."
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Have you ever spoken in tongues? Do you know anything about it?
Did you know that there are at least five kinds of tongues?
Not every kind of tongues requires interpretation.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1)
Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
 
Upvote 0

AlexDTX

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
4,191
2,817
✟351,434.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Tongues was never used to preach the Gospel. In the book of Acts it says:

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

The miracle was in the hearing, not the speaking. Tongues has always been a prayer language of the spirit speaking to the Holy Spirit, and is always gibberish to our minds, which is a part of our souls. We can pray for interpretation of our own prayer time, of course. And a prophetic tongue must have an interpretation, otherwise it will be gibberish to all the hearers.

BTW, an interpretation is not the same as a translation. Even in the natural if a diplomat from another country is provided an interpreter, the person doing the interpretation never translates word for word because different languages have different syntax structures, expressions and idioms that do not literally translate. Interpreters use their judgment in sharing the gist of the communication. This is true with interpreting a prophetic tongue.
 
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Speaking in tongues originally had the purpose of communicating the gospel to people who spoke in different languages, did it not? What is the purpose now?
I don't know where you got that notion from, because it is nowhere in the New Testament. If you carefully read Acts 2, you will see no mention of tongues as related to the preaching of the gospel. Peter explained why the crowd heard the praises of God (not the gospel) in their own languages, and then went on to preach the gospel in his native language (not tongues!). The only 'purpose' of tongues as described by Paul is in 1 Corinthians 14 where he says that tongues is spoken to God and it is the speaking of mysteries in the Spirit. There is no other defining purpose for tongues in the New Testament. So the notion that the original purpose of tongues was for the preaching of the gospel is a made-up notion from someone's own mind.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I have been praying in tongues for 50 years, and have closely fellowshipped in meetings where tongues were spoken, and I have never witnessed anything approaching mass hysteria. I guess 50 years of experience outweighs "one single experience". Also, if one has never spoken in tongues on a regular basis, he or she can never know whether it is spiritually uplifting or not. One cannot make definite assertions without commensurate experience. "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?" (Job 38:2).
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Scripture is more than just a parable about belief. That is existential, blind "faith in faith" Scripture is God's communication to mankind about who He is and who we are.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me speaking in tongues once had a purpose, but now is nothing more than a status symbol, in many cases.
Possibly so, but a generalisation no less.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
That might make sense to some, but there is nothing in the Act 2 passage that connects the speaking in tongues to the preaching of the gospel. The tongues speakers were praising God, but Peter preached the gospel in his own native language and not tongues. Read it for yourself. We need to be careful not to add our own opinions to what the Word of God actually says.

You are correct that it makes no sense to speak out in tongues in a church service, unless it is interpreted so that all may be edified.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Melven

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,080
2,585
61
Wyoming
✟90,808.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
What I am saying is Paul wished that they all spoke in Tongues, but the greater wish was that they all prophesied.
This would have been a senseless wish if Tongues was a known language because a known language is how prophesy is spoken.

Have you ever spoken in tongues? Do you know anything about it?
Did you know that there are at least five kinds of tongues?
Not every kind of tongues requires interpretation.
Yes I have spoken in tongues, not in church though, only in private.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Because the things of God are spiritually discerned, then non-Christian researchers will always come to different conclusions but not any real answers about how something can be real and genuine. The natural man cannot discern or understand the ways of God no matter how hard he tries or how much research he does.

Natural man cannot truly explain the born again experience where a person can undergo a comprehensive change from being a person totally consumed with evil to someone totally righteous in his life. Nor can he explain how a person with terminal cancer can be totally healed to the point where there is no evidence of him having cancer in the first place. Or how a prophetic word given to a group of people, and one person's life is totally changed by it while the others are not.

The Bible does not justify what it says. it just says it, and we either believe it or we don't. If the Bible shows that tongues can be an understandable language at times, and at others a language quite unknown to anyone, and that a person can speak out in tongues in a meeting and another person can give an interpretation which may or may not be a direct translation of it, then we believe it or we don't. The Bible does not force us to believe anything it says. We have the choice, and therefore we also choose the consequences of our choice.

So, one has the choice to believe what the linguists say and go with those theories, or not. It makes little difference to what the Bible teaches. God, in His communication with mankind through the Bible, does not try to prove anything to anyone. His attitude is: Believe it or not. That is your choice.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I choose to ignore the linguistic research, because I don't believe it. I believe what the Bible says about tongues.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Have you ever heard a conversation in Hindi, Chinese, Arabic, or Vietnamese? These languages sound like absolute gibberish to me, but those speakers understand each other. So, if I pray in a language that I believe, on the basis of 1 Corinthians 14, is a language understandable to God, even though it may sound like gibberish to me, then who is there to doubt that what I am praying is genuine language?
 
Upvote 0