Speaking and praying in tongues? Real or fake?

[Dave L]

Yes brother but look at the contrast in the next verse.

1 Corinthians 14:15

15 What then is it? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing psalms with the spirit, and I will sing psalms also with the understanding;

These appear to be contrasting statements in my opinion. Like yin & yang. Understanding and not understanding.

Understanding = in behalf of others.

 

[Foxfyre]

Faith comes from God's word, not seeing things. Jesus did not commit himself to those who believed in him based on the miracles he performed.

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.” (John 2:23–25) (KJV 1900)

God's word as we have it in the Scriptures also points to those who believed before there were Scriptures and also to those who had no knowledge of the Scriptures when they first believed. The Bible has blessed me in many ways but it is not the only way that God speaks to me or any of us. The Bible is God's book. But it is not all that God is.

 

[Dave L]

God's word as we have it in the Scriptures also points to those who believed before there were Scriptures and also to those who had no knowledge of the Scriptures when they first believed. The Bible has blessed me in many ways but it is not the only way that God speaks to me or any of us. The Bible is God's book. But it is not all that God is.

This is true but the Holy Spirit comes through hearing the Word.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Do you pray to interpret scripture?

With knowledge God gives one in a gift, a gift of knowledge, it is subjective reality. It may be that that one understands but because it is subjective, it takes some skill to explain to another what it meant to you. Then it is objective reality.

Scripture we interpret in context, by knowing what each word means. And by knowing who was addressed and about their culture. Not so with a personal prophecy, a word of knowledge, or an interpretation of tongues. The interpretation can be for the speaker, or another there. Subjective truths, or for a group. So if you replay it in another city, it is nonsense.

 

[Dave L]

With knowledge God gives one in a gift, a gift of knowledge, it is subjective reality. It may be that that one understands but because it is subjective, it takes some skill to explain to another what it meant to you. Then it is objective reality.

Scripture we interpret in context, by knowing what each word means. And by knowing who was addressed and about their culture. Not so with a personal prophecy, a word of knowledge, or an interpretation of tongues. The interpretation can be for the speaker, or another there. Subjective truths, or for a group. So if you replay it in another city, it is nonsense.

I don't think this holds up because the devout Jews in Acts heard the same message in different tongues.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Understanding = in behalf of others.

Possibly but I just don’t see that being the context of all three of these verses put together. I think each one indicates the one speaking tongues does not always understand.

 

[Dave L]

Possibly but I just don’t see that being the context of all three of these verses put together. I think each one indicates the one speaking tongues does not always understand.

Does not always interpret. Some difficult passages we understand but do not interpret correctly.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I don't think this holds up because the devout Jews in Acts heard the same message in different tongues.

I thought each of the twelve were speaking, and the message in each case was partially subjective, to people from their particular culture. So group subjective and later explained it was objective truth and to our children it needs explaining. But to those who first heard, it fitted into them like a perfect key.

1Co 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

 

[Dave L]

I thought each of the twelve were speaking, and the message in each case was partially subjective, to people from their particular culture. So group subjective and later explained it was objective truth and to our children it needs explaining. But to those who first heard, it fitted into them like a perfect key.

1Co 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Paul said those who speak in tongues speak to God and nobody understands them.

“For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Paul said those who speak in tongues speak to God and nobody understands them.

“For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

1Co 14:2 For he that speaks with a tongue does not speak to men but to God: for no one hears; but in spirit he speaks mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesies speaks to men in edification, and encouragement, and consolation. Darby

1Co 14:2 Those who speak in strange tongues do not speak to others but to God, because no one understands them. They are speaking secret truths by the power of the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 But those who proclaim God's message speak to people and give them help, encouragement, and comfort. GNB

1Co 14:2 For the person who speaks in another language is not actually speaking to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands him, because he is talking about secrets by the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 But the person who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding, encouragement, and comfort. ISV

1Co 14:1 Pursue the love, and seek earnestly the spiritual things, and rather that ye may prophecy,
1Co 14:2 for he who is speaking in an unknown tongue—to men he doth not speak, but to God, for no one doth hearken, and in spirit he doth speak secrets;
1Co 14:3 and he who is prophesying to men doth speak edification, and exhortation, and comfort; YLT

In context Paul is comparing prophesy with tongues of the kind that are a prayer to God, and a mystery, which goes without interpretation most of the time. And His mind praying is unfruitful, but his prayers are heard for his edification. There is a point to tongues no one on Earth understands.

 

[W2L]

The Spirit of prophecy is the oil of the Holy Spirit. Prophets were anointed.

1 John 2:20 [e]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and [f]because no lie is of the truth.

27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

 

[W2L]

"So I fell at his feet to worship him. But he told me, “Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who rely on the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

I see that scripture in new light. Thank you for posting it.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I see that scripture in new light. Thank you for posting it.

It may be good to make a thread about that.

 

[W2L]

It may be good to make a thread about that.

Good idea.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Does not always interpret. Some difficult passages we understand but do not interpret correctly.

Here’s another example

“He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to discern whether a message is from the Spirit of God or from another spirit. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, while another is given the ability to interpret what is being said.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:10‬

“have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:30‬

Keep in mind the two Greek words used here for interpret also means to translate.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is true but the Holy Spirit comes through hearing the Word.

The Holy Spirit came long before the Word existed after the Old Testament was closed. So obviously the Word is not found only in Scripture.

 

[Dave L]

The Holy Spirit came long before the Word existed after the Old Testament was closed. So obviously the Word is not found only in Scripture.

In Jesus and the prophets.

 

[Foxfyre]

In Jesus and the prophets.

Our beliefs differ and if it gives you comfort to believe that the only 'Word' is in the Bible I won't argue you and will again wish for you a great afternoon.

 

[Dave L]

Our beliefs differ and if it gives you comfort to believe that the only 'Word' is in the Bible I won't argue you and will again wish for you a great afternoon.

If you go beyond scripture you don't know who's speaking.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you go beyond scripture you don't know who's speaking.

Again I won't argue with you but will agree with those who do hear the Lord speaking even now, in addition to or even apart from Scripture. I believe God speaks to those he has called today as much as He did to Abraham and Moses and the prophets and the Church fathers. Sometimes that is through the Scriptures and sometimes that is through the Spirit.

John 16:13 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.