Spanking

[Andry]

If I may ask, what were the incidences that led to those spankings. I am just wondering where the line is drawn in your book. Is it life threatening behavior, or repeated behavior, or what??

In all honesty, one I totally regretted and repented. I had just flew home jetlagged and with the flu. I was trying to sleep. He keep kept crashing his riding car against the door trying to get into the bedroom (it was the afternoon) even after his grandma scolded him about it several times. But he yelled back at her. I dragged myself out of bed and swatted his bum a few times and a quick lecture. He cried but kept quite afterwards. I could have handled it better for sure as I knew his grandma could have kept him in check; I just didn't have the patience.

The second time was potentially life threatening. He walked in front of a moving car. That's non-negotiable. I needed to imprint that trauma in his mind with an imprint of my hand on his bum. He's never done that again.

This was between 2 1/2 and 3 I think.

 

[erin74]

I believe our receiving God's grace that he's given does mean "no consequence", ie. we're not going to hell.

My only thought with this is that grace doesn't mean no consequence at all. It means that Christ took the consequence for our sin. So - is this reflected in your teaching your son grace. Do you ever show him that consequence has to be taken by someone?

Also sin does have consequences of it's own? If someone gets hurt because I sin, and they choose to show me grace, they are still hurt. If the vase is broken because of sin, the vase remains broken, there is now no vase. That is a consequence.

Repentance - Reconciliation - Restitution - Restoration.

Ok - now just thinking through this one.....
The thing is before repentence even comes God has already shown us grace, in Christ. As for restitution. Does God ask us to make restitution - isn't that the price that Christ paid? Sorry I'm just trying to make head or tail of this.

My understanding of grace is that God has shown us his grace while we were still sinful - not after we repented. It wasn't like mankind said - please help us and then He sent Christ. Mankind said - we don't need you, and God sent Christ. It was only after that that we called on him, and that act of faith itself is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9).

think I need to do some more thinking......

Erin

 

[Andry]

My only thought with this is that grace doesn't mean no consequence at all. It means that Christ took the consequence for our sin. So - is this reflected in your teaching your son grace. Do you ever show him that consequence has to be taken by someone?

Yes. He knows Jesus, and is comfortable talking to him and about him all day. And if I asked him now 'to get him saved' it would be a natural. But he needs to grow and understand a bit more I think, so that decision will come, as I'd like to put it, "when the fullness of time has come", vis a vis, when he's ready.

Also sin does have consequences of it's own? If someone gets hurt because I sin, and they choose to show me grace, they are still hurt. If the vase is broken because of sin, the vase remains broken, there is now no vase. That is a consequence.

If I choose to show you grace by forgiveness, there is a power in forgiving you that heals my hurt. That's how it works. The vase that was broken will be replaced by the money he will have to use from his allowance or other privilege. That's restitution. Or, I can take that consequence on his behalf and pay for it myself. That's grace. And I make sure my son understands that.

Ok - now just thinking through this one.....
The thing is before repentence even comes God has already shown us grace, in Christ. As for restitution. Does God ask us to make restitution - isn't that the price that Christ paid? Sorry I'm just trying to make head or tail of this.

Of course. Even now for the unbeliever, grace has already come. But if they choose not to repent, are they recepients of that grace? As far as the analogy of Christ as restitution, yes, you are correct.

My understanding of grace is that God has shown us his grace while we were still sinful - not after we repented. It wasn't like mankind said - please help us and then He sent Christ. Mankind said - we don't need you, and God sent Christ. It was only after that that we called on him, and that act of faith itself is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9).

think I need to do some more thinking......

Erin

I think as above response. And I agree that, "It was only after that that we called on him, and that act of faith itself is a gift from God". So we do have a part to play, a choice to make. Even though grace was shown before we made that choice to repent.

Did I get what you're saying?

 

[Zoomer]

I believe our receiving God's grace that he's given does mean "no consequence", ie. we're not going to hell.

We still have consquences to our actions in a secular world. If I rob a bank and get caught I will get arrested. God may forgive me but those who govern this nation may not.

 

[newcreature]

We still have consquences to our actions in a secular world.

I agree.

 

[Andry]

We still have consquences to our actions in a secular world.

Well of course.

If I rob a bank and get caught I will get arrested. God may forgive me but those who govern this nation may not.

If you robbed a bank that would be pretty dumb, and in all probability, not raised properly by your parents or guardian or other unfortunate life circumstance.

What are the chances that any of us here know of any real bank robbers, so that it's become such a problem that we as parents actually worry about our kids robbing banks? Slim to none. Ergo, your example, though logically valid, is such an extreme one that it's really academic.

We do not have to experience everything to know whether that's desireable or not. We have been given the mental capacity to teach our kids that the consequence of putting our hand on a hot stove will burn them without having to actually experience it. And essense, what we are doing is teaching our kids to make right choices - don't touch a hot stove.

Our worries - if you can call it that - are not the extreme choices our kids make, but the subtle ones. And hopefully we can still the principles that enable and empower our kids to make choices that bring life.

 

[Addicted2~Jesus]

In all honesty, one I totally regretted and repented. I had just flew home jetlagged and with the flu. I was trying to sleep. He keep kept crashing his riding car against the door trying to get into the bedroom (it was the afternoon) even after his grandma scolded him about it several times. But he yelled back at her. I dragged myself out of bed and swatted his bum a few times and a quick lecture. He cried but kept quite afterwards. I could have handled it better for sure as I knew his grandma could have kept him in check; I just didn't have the patience.

The second time was potentially life threatening. He walked in front of a moving car. That's non-negotiable. I needed to imprint that trauma in his mind with an imprint of my hand on his bum. He's never done that again.

This was between 2 1/2 and 3 I think.

I was really tryin to get to this like three days ago an have jes been so dern busy I hadn't found a chance to change my mind let alone my drawers

I wanted to also say thank you to you Andry for keepin everthin in a civil discussion while havin a few of us drill you like we've been doin an I apperciate honest discussion almost more then I do a knock down drag out fight LOL Thanks.

Now then I had all this typed out the other day, jes needed to have it submitted an the like an over night this thin decided to crash so I lost all of it, gonna try an member it proper like.

I needed to imprint that trauma in his mind with an imprint of my hand on his bum.

You've got it! This is exactly what we (as spankers) do. We imprint the sting on the backside to write it cross their minds. I support you spankin your son espeically fur havin sumthin like that happen, it's potentially life threatin an needed to have done what you did. He's not as liable to ever do sumthin like that again, er at least not do so without memberin that his backside hurt th last time he'd done it.

The same thin goes when God punishes or spanks His children, it's a reminder wether it be physical discomfort er not it's designed so that the next time we decide to be stupid bout sumthin will think of the consquences of our actions, not only what it makes the other person feel like etc but what happens to us. Self preservation does wonder for the body and le's face it..... when we do sumthin wrong, an we know it's wrong.... the first thought to cross our mind is not "how's this gonna affect so an so" it's, "how bad is this gonna hurt" whether again it be physical, or pocket book, or maybe missin out on a blessin etc. I think it's only natural to think this way, I don't think it's selfish either, but th way we are wired. How much better would we as a ppl of the living God be if we first thought, "how is this gonna effect so an so" Perhaps we'd finally Begin to start understandin the love our father has for us.

 

[Andry]

A2J, thank you for that post!

I appreciate your honesty and kindness. A civil discussion is a precious thing. Oftentimes I find myself engaged and enjoying discussions more because of its civility than the subject itself.

Blessings to you. I look forward to discussing future hot topics with you.

 

[erin74]

Andry - can I add my thanks to A2J's. I haven't had much of a chance to look into the sites and stuff. I am still thinking over a lot of the stuff you said. We are revamping our discipline at the moment. What was suitable for my son at 2 really isn't the same at 3, so I am certainly interested in what you have to say. I think I also need to have a really good look into grace in the bible so that I can better understand it, and apply it to parenting....

Erin

 

[lin1235]

Let me give you a real life example. I once missed and forgot completely our wedding anniversary. (I'll never do that again! ). In fact, I was out on the golf course instead.

My wife didn't say a word. It was only after a few days - yes, I can be thick - that I realized what I'd done (no wonder she was kinda distant those few days!). I apoligized, she accepted my apology and was forgiven. I bought her a nice gift and thought we'd been restored, and went back to my golf routine.

But weeks went by, and we weren't quite back to normal. Finally I realized I missed the restitution part - the gift I had bought her cost money, but it didn't cost me - if you get my meaning. So I decided that for the next 6 months I wouldn't play golf. That, to me, was restitution. And our relationship was restored.

Excellent example - wow. Thanks.