Source of water for the flood

[Loudmouth]

I have done mine. It is hard to continue the discussion with people at different levels. They asked you a few intuitive questions. You gave some analysis. They do not quite understand, do not appreciate but said you are wrong. That is enough to end any discussion. I am amazed that how difficult it could be in order to have a positive attitude of debating.

Please do not respond. I am not talking to anyone, but to myself.

Please do not read.

Creationist offers up bad arguments, ignores evidence, and then complains when those arguments are critiqued. That is what ends all of these discussions.

 

[AV1611VET]

I feel your pain, Juvenissun --- I really do. Wait until you've been at this almost two years. Saying the same things over and over and over again.

 

[Phred]

I feel your pain, Juvenissun --- I really do. Wait until you've been at this almost two years. Saying the same things over and over and over again.

But what you say is simply and irrevocably wrong. So saying it again and again and again doesn't make it any less wrong, it just means you're wrong again and again and again. Every single thing you say is based upon one unevidenced and unprovable hypothesis... that the Bible is true regardless of the evidence against it. Starting from that position is nice and all... but it's just not sane. We're not afraid of things that go bump in the night anymore. For some reason you are. I can't fathom the fear that drives you to this place. Yet, every day I'm grateful that I'm not so afraid of dying that I'm driven to irrationality. Two days... two years or two hours. Any time span is too long.

 

[Psudopod]

I feel your pain, Juvenissun --- I really do. Wait until you've been at this almost two years. Saying the same things over and over and over again.

So which is it? Everyone on this forum is really that stupid, that no matter how many times you say the same thing, they don't get it? Ot that may be you've been saying the same things for two years and people have been correcting them, but you haven't listened to them?

 

[thaumaturgy]

I can't say I'm surprised, but it is disappointing.

Juvenissun started out strongly by actually using somewhat uncommon geologic terms like lherzolite, and he meandered over the concept of "fractional crystallization" as well as a random sprinkling of "rare earth elements" and "fractionation". So he was dealing in topics well above most YEC that we see on here.

But sadly when the rubber met the road he seemed incapable of explaining how he was using some of these terms to people who have significant training in this area, and he used the planet Venus to hide all the "unknowns".

Like Dad uses "the unobserved past" to hide all the "unknowns" and Little Nipper uses a lack of understanding of hydraulics and physics to hide all the unknowns in the geologic deposits from the Flood. Or AV1611VET uses unfalsifiable claims to hide...well, everything.

The key feature is that YEC and other variants of creationists who usually don't have any training or limited training in the actual disciplines don't appreciate that you can't just shove everything into a big black box and wave your magic wand around it to allow for the technical failures of your hypothesis. If you can't explain the details then you have more problems than if you simply didn't have a hypothesis to begin with.

Some say the devil is in the details, but in reality the only value is in the details. The rest is just icing and comfort. The hard work of science always comes in dotting all the "i's" and crossing all the "t's".

Now, as I said, Juvenissun seemed to be working with terms well above the usual YEC pay grade, so I was definitely intrigued. He was even bouncing around the idea of mantle outgassing to source the water (juvenile water) on the planet. But there were just too many holes in the explanation that were never filled in with the exception of them being labelled by Juvenissun as "complicate".

Oh well. If Juvenissun wishes to address the holes or outline the J-Hypothesis I am sure we will all enjoy hearing it.

 

[thaumaturgy]

...

 

[Molal]

Well, I'm disappointed as well.

Oh well.

Back to writing my presentation of 3D exposed duplexes (no, not the house kind!)

 

[juvenissun]

I feel your pain, Juvenissun --- I really do. Wait until you've been at this almost two years. Saying the same things over and over and over again.

In fact, I am not painful at all. I just feel disappointed with those called themselves scientists. They are not scientists. When they can reason, they do. When their reasoning hit wall, they became stupid. That is a typical behavior of a coward. They don't even know how to learn.

 

[juvenissun]

I can't say I'm surprised, but it is disappointing.

Juvenissun started out strongly by actually using somewhat uncommon geologic terms like lherzolite,

OK, it is my turn now. You do not know what lherzolite is, I guess you failed the petrology class in your undergraduate study.

What do you know? How do you challenge the Christian faith with what you know? Let's me see something you are proud of, which makes you an atheist. How would anything in low T organic geochemistry disprove the Bible?

You better not say anything. If you do, I will certainly push you to the wall.

 

[Molal]

Yes. The beauty of geological science as we know it now is that we can see some scientific reasons that could support or explain the Genesis Flood.

We are waiting on your evidence to support your assertion.

So, do you have any?

 

[thaumaturgy]

OK, it is my turn now. You do not know what lherzolite is, I guess you failed the petrology class in your undergraduate study.

What do you know? How do you challenge the Christian faith with what you know? Let's me see something you are proud of, which makes you an atheist. How would anything in low T organic geochemistry disprove the Bible?

You better not say anything. If you do, I will certainly push you to the wall.

I am sorry that were unable to deal with the details of your own hypothesis.

 

[thaumaturgy]

In fact, I am not painful at all. I just feel disappointed with those called themselves scientists. They are not scientists. When they can reason, they do. When their reasoning hit wall, they became stupid. That is a typical behavior of a coward. They don't even know how to learn.

Stupid? Cowards? Not scientists?

There are 98 posts here, but none of them can answer your question. Sorry for the late. But I am answering it now. It is quite disappointed that all the evolution people in this forum do not know much about science.

It is complicate. It would take me a while if I choose to answer them, and frankly, no one knows the details for sure so far.

Well, I am not sure if I am on the same page with you geologists. But it does not matter. Do not expect me to know the details on the mechanism of the global flood.

All we did was ask questions about the details of your hypothesis. If you don't understand how your hypothesis works, why would it be compelling to anyone else?

If you are asking me what is the process that could accumulate free water in the mantle condition, I am telling you loudly that I do not know. However, if we replace the word "water" with "volatile compounds", then many geologists can say something about it, even all we know are still only hypotheses or models. The volatiles include water, CO2, other gases and at least the alkaline elements if we do not consider the Ca and LREE.

I am afraid people here could not take the concise explanation. For example, it seems why are alkaline elements treated as volatiles in the mantle is still a question.

How about the tropical wooly mammoth got frozen alive in the arctics? This is a simple one.

Please try to challenge me with better questions, so a human being could possibly answer something. It is meaningless and useless to ask a science question which none of the TE or atheist on the earth have any clue about.

I am still unsure what the "game" is here.

 

[Baggins]

In fact, I am not painful at all. I just feel disappointed with those called themselves scientists. They are not scientists. When they can reason, they do. When their reasoning hit wall, they became stupid. That is a typical behavior of a coward. They don't even know how to learn.

And finally the add hominem attacks to complete the usual creationist modus operandi.

I have to agree with Thaum and Molal, as a geologist I was initially intrigued by his use of high falutin' geological terms , but it has all turned into hot air and fairy dust. It was obvious from the word go that his source of flood water would not fly as a working hypothesis, no method of extraction to earths surface, no way of dissipating massive heat that would have destroyed all life on earth, no way of putting water back into the mantle.

I suppose he didn't realise he would be dealing with real earth scientists on this board and he thought he might blind a few people with science by throwing around words that appear to show he has knowledge but often appear to have been put in at random, LREE is one example.

Then when he is called to task to explain himself he resorts to insulting people as we see above.

A fairly instructive thread for lurkers that shows that even when creationists appear to be learned in a field it is often all smoke and mirrors.

 

[Baggins]

OK, it is my turn now. You do not know what lherzolite is, I guess you failed the petrology class in your undergraduate study.

What do you know? How do you challenge the Christian faith with what you know? Let's me see something you are proud of, which makes you an atheist. How would anything in low T organic geochemistry disprove the Bible?

You better not say anything. If you do, I will certainly push you to the wall.

And then to round off the ad hominem attacks - threats.



How absurd.

It looks like Juvenissun is someone with some half remembered school geology who is upset that he has been found out when asked to flesh out his ideas.

 

[Molal]

I still find it ironic that Juvenissun is up against three practicing geologists, With a good spread of discipline and knowledge.


All I want is for him to flesh out his ideas, and provide some evidence.

 

[juvenissun]

I am sorry that were unable to deal with the details of your own hypothesis.

If you talk about science, then you should not worry any thing about "feeling". There are only true, false, or unknown. If you abided to logical argument, nobody would be hurt and there would be nothing to regret about.

I used my geology knowledge to propose a possible cause of global flood. You do not take it. That is fine. But why are you here? Is "I don't believe you" or "the model is ridiculous" the best thing you can say to a Creation hypothesis? Are you here to give challenge to Creationist with your best knowledge? If so, where is your challenge?

Since you are not good in petrology, sedimentology. It is pretty flavorless by seeing you challenge me with naive questions. I like to see that you are able to give a blow based on your best knowledge. So, throw to me your low T organic geochemistry argument as a challenge against Creationism. I am going to your field to see what is your qualification to challenge the science in the Bible.

If you do not have any challenge to give, then wait for a while, I will throw one low T geochemistry stone to you. It is not my field. But at least I think I might be able to give you some hard time in your field of knowledge.

So, if you can make a good shot, I am ready. Otherwise, you just wait. But, it would also mean that you already lose the first round.

 

[juvenissun]

And finally the add hominem attacks to complete the usual creationist modus operandi.

I have to agree with Thaum and Molal, as a geologist I was initially intrigued by his use of high falutin' geological terms , but it has all turned into hot air and fairy dust. It was obvious from the word go that his source of flood water would not fly as a working hypothesis, no method of extraction to earths surface, no way of dissipating massive heat that would have destroyed all life on earth, no way of putting water back into the mantle.

I suppose he didn't realise he would be dealing with real earth scientists on this board and he thought he might blind a few people with science by throwing around words that appear to show he has knowledge but often appear to have been put in at random, LREE is one example.

Then when he is called to task to explain himself he resorts to insulting people as we see above.

A fairly instructive thread for lurkers that shows that even when creationists appear to be learned in a field it is often all smoke and mirrors.

Baggins, you call yourself a geologist. I can not see it. What do you know the best in geology? Care to take a challenge?

 

[juvenissun]

I still find it ironic that Juvenissun is up against three practicing geologists, With a good spread of discipline and knowledge.


All I want is for him to flesh out his ideas, and provide some evidence.

Hey, Molal, you lost two rounds in the debates on OT forum. You did not even dare to give ONE response to my third challenge. What can you do? Only put junks into argument to disguise your ignorance?

You are no scientist.

 

[juvenissun]

I am sorry that were unable to deal with the details of your own hypothesis.

Base on what you said here, you are not a scientist.

Who has details for any hypothesis?

 

[Molal]

Hey, Molal, you lost two rounds in the debates on OT forum. You did not even dare to give ONE response to my third challenge. What can you do? Only put junks into argument to disguise your ignorance?

You are no scientist.

So, how about you flesh out your ideas and provide some evidence instead of derogatory comments?

Still waiting for evidence....