Souls and Evolution

Jester4kicks · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
You have no ghost detectors. Face it. You can't comment from a position of knowedge either way.

Sure we can. Ready for it? "There is no evidence to suggest that ghosts exist." There's the position of knowledge.

dad said:
I have records, even history, where spirits were at one time considered as real as men, and were said to be among men.

I have records, even history, where the sun was at one time considered to be a chariot that a god rode across the sky every day and was said to be pulled by a pegasus.

dad said:
We also have countless spiritual experiences, and science can't wave them all away.

Sure it can. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence.

dad said:
We have fulfilled prophesy, that is far beyond human ability to predict, already fulfilled.

No, you don't. You have what is left of a flurry of "prophecies" that were made by all sorts of people at the time, most of which didn't pan out. The one's that did pan out only did so in some vague interpretation that could be applied to any number of other circumstances... or they panned out by people who wrote stories specifically to "confirm" the prophecy in question.

dad said:
We have witnessed the dead rise!

No, we haven't.

dad said:
We have observed, and ate with Him after He rose from the dead!

No, we haven't.

dad said:
We have miracles, like being teleported physically one place to another, like Philip!

No, we don't.

dad said:
We have experiences recorded of actual spirit trips!! Like Paul.

So do I! But I don't think I'll be taking LSD again anytime soon.

dad said:
We have had demoniacs, the possessed as well.

Right, just like we had "doctors" who though blood-letting or drilling holes in a person's head were reliable ways of getting demons out and curing illnesses.

dad said:
Modern physical only quacks would explain it purely in a physical way, like many 'personalities' etc. But they are all on grugs far as I can tell anyhow, and in love with their moms!

So we're back to Ad hom's? Is that really what you've sunk to?

(Not that I would blame you... you obviously don't have anything of substance to rely on for your arguments)

Tiberius · Mar 16, 2009

I'm Sorry, AV, you must have missed this post of mine. Could you please reply to it?

Tiberius said:
I'll be happy to answer, AV, but first, I'd like to ask for a little clarification.

Firstly, what is this "atheist doctrine" you speak of? As far as I am aware, there is no common belief amongst atheists other than they lack of belief in God. There is certainly no agreement among atheists about the existence of souls.

Secondly, could you define "soul" for me? There are many different definitions used by different people, and I'd like to make sure I know which definition you are using.

Anyway, the Bible itself says that there isn't anything that raises mankind above the animals. See for yourself...

It seems that no matter what definition you use for "soul", it is shared by both man and other animals. Either man and animals have souls, or man and animals both lack souls. To claim otherwise is to say that the Biblical, God-breathed words of the King James Bible that you hold so high are wrong when it says, "a man hath no preeminence above a beast".

dad · Mar 16, 2009

Cabal said:
No, YOUR moms.

No, I am not a follower of Freud.

"His dramatic evocation of a universal Oedipus complex, in which (to put a complicated issue too simply) the little boy loves his mother and hates his father, seems more like a literary conceit than a thesis worthy of a scientifically minded psychologist."

http://www.time.com/time/time100/scientist/profile/freud.html

dad · Mar 16, 2009

LifeToTheFullest! said:
I have records too. Mostly LP's.

So we can agree that the beatles really existed. Records do count for something. The evidence mounts.

dad · Mar 16, 2009

Jester4kicks said:
Sure we can. Ready for it? "There is no evidence to suggest that ghosts exist." There's the position of knowledge.

Don't blame us that you have no ghost detecting machines.

I have records, even history, where the sun was at one time considered to be a chariot that a god rode across the sky every day and was said to be pulled by a pegasus.

well, those records are in recent history. The Greeks had lots of gods, but, far as I can tell they didn't really live among us, did they? They moved already by then, one might assume. The evidence mounts.

Sure it can. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence.

It beats the hec out of nothing.

[quoote]No, you don't. You have what is left of a flurry of "prophecies" that were made by all sorts of people at the time, most of which didn't pan out.[/quote] The bible is 100% accurate in that dept! Look into it.

The one's that did pan out only did so in some vague interpretation that could be applied to any number of other circumstances... or they panned out by people who wrote stories specifically to "confirm" the prophecy in question.

In the case of Nostradamus, and such, yes. But we were talking the real deal.

No, we haven't.

No, we haven't.

No, we don't.

Speak for yourself. We do!

So do I! But I don't think I'll be taking LSD again anytime soon.

Again? That could explain some things.

Right, just like we had "doctors" who though blood-letting or drilling holes in a person's head were reliable ways of getting demons out and curing illnesses.

Lobotomies? Electric shock treatments? Abortion Drs? Don't blame me for your quack's history.

There is loads of evidences for a spiritual, always has been. Science has zero against it!

thaumaturgy · Mar 16, 2009

AV1611VET said:
According to atheist doctrine, do glorified apes have souls?

(Just a simple YES or NO will do, please --- this isn't an invitation to spout.)

YES OR NO:

According to Independent Baptists when the host transubstantiates into the literal body of Christ, does it taste differently?

(This isn't an invitation to spout)

AV1611VET · Mar 16, 2009

thaumaturgy said:
YES OR NO:

According to Independent Baptists when the host transubstantiates into the literal body of Christ, does it taste differently?

(This isn't an invitation to spout)

Feel better now?

thaumaturgy · Mar 16, 2009

AV1611VET said:
Feel better now?

I will when you answer it.

dad · Mar 16, 2009

thaumaturgy said:
YES OR NO:

According to Independent Baptists when the host transubstantiates into the literal body of Christ, does it taste differently?

(This isn't an invitation to spout)

When we have God, the skies look bluer, and things taste better, smell better, look better, and feel betterr, I would think. Of course, how would one without God test that?

This experiment depends on the observer.

Nathan Poe · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
So we can agree that the beatles really existed. Records do count for something. The evidence mounts.

Worst comes to worst, we can always ask the Beatles themselves.

One advantage of their records is that they recorded their own material -- something not a single one of the magical spirit people were able to do.

Nathan Poe · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
When we have God, the skies look bluer, and things taste better, smell better, look better, and feel betterr, I would think.

MDMA has been known to have the same effect.

gaara4158 · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
When we have God, the skies look bluer, and things taste better, smell better, look better, and feel betterr, I would think. Of course, how would one without God test that?

This experiment depends on the observer.

I love Mary Jane <3

gaara4158 · Mar 16, 2009

ranmaonehalf said:
think??

troll as in poe. I'm convinced he's the real deal, call me a fool, but that's my hunch. I've seen worse in person. Ever met Brother Micah Armstrong?

Jester4kicks · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
Don't blame us that you have no ghost detecting machines.

We don't have pink unicorn-detecting machines either... doesn't mean they're any more real than the "soul".

dad said:
well, those records are in recent history. The Greeks had lots of gods, but, far as I can tell they didn't really live among us, did they? They moved already by then, one might assume. The evidence mounts.

Wow... you're not just ignorant of science, you're ignorant of any culture that's not your own. "Recent history"? Are you mad? Stories of Greek gods date back to 800+ years prior to Jesus (supposedly) even being born! Furthermore, Greek gods regularly lived among the mortals... ever heard of Hercules? Yeah, that required a bit of a visit to the mortal world.

dad said:
It beats the hec out of nothing.

No, it doesn't. Jim and Joe-bob's account of being abducted of aliens is just as useful for proving the existence or extra terrestrial intelligence.

dad said:
The bible is 100% accurate in that dept! Look into it.

I have. In the areas where the bible is even remotely accurate, it is only accurate by default. It's the equivalent of Ethiopia winning the gold in figure skating because every other team died on the way to the olympics.

dad said:
In the case of Nostradamus, and such, yes. But we were talking the real deal.

No, we're not. Prophecy is prophecy. Doesn't matter if it's from the bible, nostradamus, or the National Inquirer.

dad said:
There is loads of evidences for a spiritual, always has been. Science has zero against it!

You have yet to show any of this "evidence"... so of course science has no evidence against it. There's no evidence for scientists to examine and confirm OR deny!

dad · Mar 16, 2009

Jester4kicks said:
We don't have pink unicorn-detecting machines either... doesn't mean they're any more real than the "soul".[/quoote]

We don't have same state past machines either, does that mean it is real!? No. Thanks for that. What science can detect is of limited import. Glad we settled that.

Wow... you're not just ignorant of science, you're ignorant of any culture that's not your own. "Recent history"? Are you mad? Stories of Greek gods date back to 800+ years prior to Jesus (supposedly) even being born! Furthermore, Greek gods regularly lived among the mortals... ever heard of Hercules? Yeah, that required a bit of a visit to the mortal world.

Click to expand...

Hint..the split was about 2500 BC, or 2400. What does 800Bc matter? That is present state. Get it?

No, it doesn't. Jim and Joe-bob's account of being abducted of aliens is just as useful for proving the existence or extra terrestrial intelligence.

Click to expand...

Just as useful to useless science, you mean! Not to the intelligent, bible savvy observer.

I have. In the areas where the bible is even remotely accurate, it is only accurate by default. It's the equivalent of Ethiopia winning the gold in figure skating because every other team died on the way to the olympics.

Click to expand...

Virgin birth, resurrection, hands and feet pierced, etc etc etc. get serious.

No, we're not. Prophecy is prophecy. Doesn't matter if it's from the bible, nostradamus, or the National Inquirer.

Click to expand...

It matters. Learn the difference.

You have yet to show any of this "evidence"... so of course science has no evidence against it. There's no evidence for scientists to examine and confirm OR deny!

Click to expand...

Since science has zero evidence it can deal in either way, that moots your point, something fierce.

Jester4kicks · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
We don't have same state past machines either, does that mean it is real!? No. Thanks for that. What science can detect is of limited import. Glad we settled that.

So, in other words... "I say it's right, and science can't prove it one way or the other... but if it somehow could, it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't believe it."

Glad we got that sorted out.

dad said:
Hint..the split was about 2500 BC, or 2400. What does 800Bc matter? That is present state. Get it?

No, I don't. Your point on this was that you "have records, even history, where spirits were at one time considered as real as men, and were said to be among men." MY point was that I can show you just as many historical accounts from other cultures that believed things that we now know not to be true. YOU countered that by trying to say that those records were "recent", and I corrected you by pointing out that they are just as old as your records.

Once again, you don't even know what you're arguing for anymore. You just keep on throwing out one red herring after another until you can't keep them all straight.

dad said:
Just as useful to useless science, you mean! Not to the intelligent, bible savvy observer.

Another red herring. Keep it on point or keep your flapper shut.

dad said:
Virgin birth, resurrection, hands and feet pierced, etc etc etc. get serious.

I LOVE IT! You don't even know the history of that supposed "prophecy"!!!!! How naive can a person get???!!!!!

Here's a clue.... every element of your christ story was simply taken from the stories of other cultures who had their own legends, myths, and gods.

My word... pick up a book and learn about history for once!

dad said:
Since science has zero evidence it can deal in either way, that moots your point, something fierce.

So, in other words... "I say it's right, and science can't prove it one way or the other... but if it somehow could, it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't believe it."

Glad we got that sorted out.... again.

dad · Mar 16, 2009

Jester4kicks said:
So, in other words... "I say it's right, and science can't prove it one way or the other... but if it somehow could, it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't believe it."

False IF it could I would believe it, and look for another tact, as to where it went wrong. So far the different state kills it dead, what more coulld I want!

No, I don't. Your point on this was that you "have records, even history, where spirits were at one time considered as real as men, and were said to be among men." MY point was that I can show you just as many historical accounts from other cultures that believed things that we now know not to be true. YOU countered that by trying to say that those records were "recent", and I corrected you by pointing out that they are just as old as your records.

But the overwhelming agreement across the spectrum on spirits is not some left field version of some side take from some clique of biased pagans! The common thread of gods, and angels and spirits is nearly universal! Therefore we cannot throw out the observed baby, with the fringe story bath water.. I have to tell you this?

Once again, you don't even know what you're arguing for anymore. You just keep on throwing out one red herring after another until you can't keep them all straight.

All that is less than straight is in your head. Don't blame me.

I LOVE IT! You don't even know the history of that supposed "prophecy"!!!!! How naive can a person get???!!!!!

How withoout a point can one get?

Here's a clue.... every element of your christ story was simply taken from the stories of other cultures who had their own legends, myths, and gods.

My word... pick up a book and learn about history for once!

False! It was something that was observed a certain number of years ago, in a certain place by certain people! Rent a clue.

So, in other words... "I say it's right, and science can't prove it one way or the other... but if it somehow could, it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't believe it."

Glad we got that sorted out.... again.

IF it could, we would not be talking. So far it is doubts with no substance! Not science. Work on that. Do us all a favor.

Jester4kicks · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
False IF it could I would believe it, and look for another tact, as to where it went wrong. So far the different state kills it dead, what more coulld I want!

You've created an impossible situation.
-There is no evidence for a different state past, ergo, there is nothing for science to disprove.
-IF there was evidence for science to disprove, doing so would require scientific observation and testing, which you wouldn't accept because you don't scientific observation and testing can prove anything.

Bottom line, you've created a position and a viewpoint that prevents you from accepting any explanation that you don't personally like. It's practically the definition of bull-headed, blatant ignorance.

(Oh, and since we've come to this conclusion, there's no point in entertaining your delusions on this subject any further)

dad said:
But the overwhelming agreement across the spectrum on spirits is not some left field version of some side take from some clique of biased pagans! The common thread of gods, and angels and spirits is nearly universal! Therefore we cannot throw out the observed baby, with the fringe story bath water.. I have to tell you this?

I see... so how many people have to believe in Santa before he magically becomes real?

dad said:
False! It was something that was observed a certain number of years ago, in a certain place by certain people! Rent a clue.

Ooops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EYm8lj-9zw

MoonLancer · Mar 16, 2009

Its ironic. Creationists at one point thought the world was was immutable. That it was always in its present state. however, It was scientists that deserved that the universe changes over time.

Its not science that relies on a present state universe, its creationists.

thaumaturgy · Mar 16, 2009

dad said:
When we have God, the skies look bluer, and things taste better, smell better, look better, and feel betterr, I would think. Of course, how would one without God test that?

This experiment depends on the observer.

Does your church believe in transubstatiation?

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