Soul Substance

[Prometheus_ash]

I have been giving a bit of thought about the soul of late. Not really the kind of soul searching per say, but more of the what the heck is it kind of search.

I figure that most people in our time hold to the Descartian view a soul is like an essence, a purly intangible substance that is plunged into the body, which is a purly physical thing itself.

So if this is the case, how the does the soul (completly intangible) interact with the body (completly tangible)? Also, where does the soul reside, and what is it made of?

The other option I have thought of would be that the soul is part of a body, but this would mean that if the body dies, then so to must the soul. Also makes for an interesting discusion about amputies, as it seems that they would loose part of their soul with their limbs if this is the case.

Of course, there is the third option, that the osul is our made up idea and had no actual bearing of any kind on reality. i.e. the sould does not exist.

What do you think?

 

[psychedelicist]

It might be that the "soul" is simply all the energy in our body. Since energy cannot be destroyed, your "soul" would keep living even after your body dies.

This would kind of explain stuff like OBE's, by pushing this energy right out of the body.

On the other hand, how could the brain survive without this energy? Might be worth a thought.

 

[hyperborean]

Plato considered the soul pre-existent and immoral. Later this was adapted by Christianity mainly Augustine. The soul is considered the element which we strive for union with the divine. A secular connotation is that soul is implying a deep emotional fervor and sensitivity. Look at the rise of black[african] music in 19th century America for example. Rythm and Blues.

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Prometheus,

"So if this is the case, how the does the soul (completly intangible) interact with the body (completly tangible)? Also, where does the soul reside, and what is it made of?"

Ok, this is just my own speculation: As the body is essentially pure energy that came together to 'form' matter, the soul is pure thought, or intelligence. Problem (or the solution) is that thought is essentially energy too, and so interaction is easy.

The soul is to the body as air is to a house. It is inside and outside, it is here and nowhere at the same time. Where in your home does air begin or end? One room may smell differently than another, but it's still the same air, moving freely without our noticing.

In regards to God/spirit/Creator, God is that which encompasses and inhabits and is all matter, all energy and all thought.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Crispie]

If the Soul was just energy in our body, then yes it would be as destructable as the body (both matter and energy cannot be destroyed(without the intervention of God), but yes they can change locations). The soul is of propertys no man knows about, so all claims about the soul even from christians on what it is "made of" is total speculation

 

[Kasey]

I have been giving a bit of thought about the soul of late. Not really the kind of soul searching per say, but more of the what the heck is it kind of search.

I figure that most people in our time hold to the Descartian view a soul is like an essence, a purly intangible substance that is plunged into the body, which is a purly physical thing itself.

So if this is the case, how the does the soul (completly intangible) interact with the body (completly tangible)? Also, where does the soul reside, and what is it made of?

The other option I have thought of would be that the soul is part of a body, but this would mean that if the body dies, then so to must the soul. Also makes for an interesting discusion about amputies, as it seems that they would loose part of their soul with their limbs if this is the case.

Of course, there is the third option, that the osul is our made up idea and had no actual bearing of any kind on reality. i.e. the sould does not exist.

What do you think?

I think that the "soul" that people are referring to, even though they may not even realize it, is our bioeletrical signature. By all definitions of what is tangible, you cant touch or handle that signature, its immaterial, yet, its still physicial. Its our conscienceness so to speak, but if you were to seperate that from our bodies for a long period of time, it would dissipate. Hence, no immortal soul. Think of it like a calculator and a battery. The battery is the bioeletric signature, our body is the calculator. Put both together and they work perfectly, take them apart and neither functions. its the same with us.

 

[dredgtone]

The soul is one's sense of self. It's logical for one to think the question, "what makes you you, and me me? The answer? One's very own sense of self, manifested in some sort of intangible soul.

However this poses a problem, because people sometimes go nuts and lose their former sense of self, or, in cases of split personality disorder, they have two selves. In the case of dissassociative personality disorder DPD, the two selves are unaware of eachother's existance, does this mean there are two souls in one body?

The more plausible answer turns out to be that one's sense of self is directly contingent on one's brainwave state, thus explaining the variability of one's sense of self. Neuroscience has come to show that there is no "self" - that the "soul" is nothing more than our brain's ability to process information.

 

[Kasey]

The soul is one's sense of self. It's logical for one to think the question, "what makes you you, and me me? The answer? One's very own sense of self, manifested in some sort of intangible soul.

However this poses a problem, because people sometimes go nuts and lose their former sense of self, or, in cases of split personality disorder, they have two selves. In the case of dissassociative personality disorder DPD, the two selves are unaware of eachother's existance, does this mean there are two souls in one body?

The more plausible answer turns out to be that one's sense of self is directly contingent on one's brainwave state, thus explaining the variability of one's sense of self. Neuroscience has come to show that there is no "self" - that the "soul" is nothing more than our brain's ability to process information.

Like I said, our bioeletric signature, which in effect, runs our body, which is, us.

 

[dredgtone]

Like I said, our bioeletric signature, which in effect, runs our body, which is, us.

Yep yep, just trying to put a different spin on the same view

 

[God of Love]

Hi Prometheus,

"So if this is the case, how the does the soul (completly intangible) interact with the body (completly tangible)? Also, where does the soul reside, and what is it made of?"

Ok, this is just my own speculation: As the body is essentially pure energy that came together to 'form' matter, the soul is pure thought, or intelligence. Problem (or the solution) is that thought is essentially energy too, and so interaction is easy.

The soul is to the body as air is to a house. It is inside and outside, it is here and nowhere at the same time. Where in your home does air begin or end? One room may smell differently than another, but it's still the same air, moving freely without our noticing.

In regards to God/spirit/Creator, God is that which encompasses and inhabits and is all matter, all energy and all thought.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Well put.

As one other mention, consider the way that gravity (intangible) interacts with matter (tangible). Our soul works much the same way.

In effect, we are much larger than we know, and more powerful than we assume, as Jesus Himself often pointed out in scripture.

God of Love

 

[psychedelicist]

nvm, read crispies post wrong.

 

[HappyBackslider]

I take the scientific view on this -- in other words, that there is no scientific evidence for a soul. In fact we know enough about the brain now to say that there isn't even much evidence for a 'self' -- for example, there is no central control area of the brain where 'I' resides. Rather our sense of self is made up of a number of subsystems all working together. I think this view is especially bolstered by study of mental illnesses and brain damaged individuals where it is shown that the 'self' is radically altered (or even destroyed) as a result of chemical changes or damage to the brain. In other words, our sense of selves (our our soul) is an ephiphenomena of the brain and not a 'program' that runs on the brain.

 

[dredgtone]

I take the scientific view on this -- in other words, that there is no scientific evidence for a soul. In fact we know enough about the brain now to say that there isn't even much evidence for a 'self' -- for example, there is no central control area of the brain where 'I' resides. Rather our sense of self is made up of a number of subsystems all working together. I think this view is especially bolstered by study of mental illnesses and brain damaged individuals where it is shown that the 'self' is radically altered (or even destroyed) as a result of chemical changes or damage to the brain. In other words, our sense of selves (our our soul) is an ephiphenomena of the brain and not a 'program' that runs on the brain.

Well put as well.. Which leads us to a '"frightening" but inevitable conclusion. We're nothing but complex robots, minus the metal.

 

[michabo]

As the body is essentially pure energy that came together to 'form' matter, the soul is pure thought, or intelligence. Problem (or the solution) is that thought is essentially energy too, and so interaction is easy.

That's fine, but unlike energy or mass, thought and intelligence don't exist except as ideas. What could it possibly mean to discuss pure (or even half and half thought)? How could you measure it?

Do you think that brain damage will damage the soul as it damages our intelligence? Do smarter people have more of a soul?

The soul is to the body as air is to a house. It is inside and outside, it is here and nowhere at the same time.

But air is physical, and our body is made up of, and surrounded by air and other particles just as a house is. Air may be measured, but can a soul?

 

[Crispie]

Yep, unless God intervenes Matter/Energy cannot be destroyed or created.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The other option I have thought of would be that the soul is part of a body, but this would mean that if the body dies, then so to must the soul.

My view is that our soul -- and I assume we are talking about our awareness or consciousness, not merely a "sense of self", which is only one aspect of awareness -- is an activity of our physical selves (not some sort of energy field, which seems to be the popular belief), and so it has both tangible and intangible aspects.

It is tangible in that our bodies are tangible, and it is our bodies that function and act to be aware, and so, yes, the soul unfortunately disappears as our life activities disappear in death.

However, the soul is intangible in that it is not a thing inside us (not the brain, nor even a "bioelectric signature", though electrical fields may very well be involved in awareness), but rather it is an activity, and so you can't "see" it in any other way than by observing what a person does, or of course through one's internal perspective -- the perspective of the activity itself.

 

[HumbertHumbert]

I don't believe souls exist, but for the sake of syntax, it is the psyche or self recognition that results from the chemical and electrical processes in our brains. In this case, at least gorillas, chimpanzees, dolphins, some avians, and pigs all have souls. Gorilla heaven would be really fun, I think.

 

[Prometheus_ash]

Thanks everyone for replies.

First off, it was my understanding that the suoul could not be somethign of this physical world, as then we would we would be able to messure and test the soul.

Now, if it is this bioelectric field, then when we die, what ahppens to it (us)? Does it mean we dissipate back into nature? Wouldn't that mean that at least in some ways we are dead, no afterlife?

As a clarification, when I was refering to the soul, I was refering to it in the relgion sence, as our essence, a sort of cut-off self that god created.

Now, obviously I dont believe this is the case, as weak atheist, but am curiouse how those that do believe in a soul explain it.

Thanks you again for your time and repsonces,
Ash