Soul Sleep

[Darlene7]

Can someone please tell me if the Soul Sleep doctrine came from William Miller or Ellen White - can't seem to find the beginning of the movement for soul sleep with the SDA. thanks for anyhelp
Darlene

 

[woobadooba]

It didn't come from either of the two; rather, it came from Jesus' own words.

"After saying this, he told them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to awaken him." The disciples said to him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will be all right." Jesus, however, had been speaking about his death, but they thought that he was referring merely to sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
(Joh 11:11-14 NRSV)

 

[djconklin]

When we were taught what is known as "soul sleep" (a real misnomer in my opinion!) they never turned to Ellen White or anyone else. They always used Scripture.

from Wikipedia:

William Tyndale (1484-1536), English Bible translator

• "And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection...And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good a case as the angels be ? And then what cause is there of the resurrection ?" - William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (1530)

Martin Luther (1493-1546), German reformer and Bible translator

• "Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awaked, they shall seeme to haue slept scarce one minute." - Martin Luther, An Exposition of Salomon's Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher (translation 1573)

John Milton (1608-1674), English poet and Latin secretary to Oliver Cromwell

• "Inasmuch then as the whole man is uniformly said to consist of body, and soul (whatever may be the distinct provinces assigned to these divisions), I will show, that in death, first, the whole man, and secondly, each component part, suffers privation of life...The grave is the common guardian of all till the day of judgment." - John Milton, De Doctrina Christiana (never published)

 

[Darlene7]

Thanks to both of you for your replies, but I was looking for something that may not exist, still unsure. Beliefs start somewhere, and are from the Bible (hopefully) and are taught as doctrine in churches. I am sure you know that not all churches believe in the Soul Sleep issue, many are taught that they are immediately with Christ at death - my question is not meant to be anything but a question. Since SDA and many others believe in Soul Sleep - and many other Christians believe otherwise because of their church doctrine I really want to know where it was first taught in the SDA Chruch, in other words, by whom? Possbly there is no real answer to this, I am still searching for the beginning of it in the church
Thanks again
Darlene

 

[djconklin]

Hmmm, I thought I had answered your question:

"When we were taught what is known as "soul sleep" (a real misnomer in my opinion!) they never turned to Ellen White or anyone else. They always used Scripture."

 

[Darlene7]

Dckonklin (I know I must be spelling that wrong)

You answer me as though I am to assume that all these people got together and had read and decided that the Bible taught Soul Sleep and they all automatically knew that and there was never a need to be taught that concept or an explanation to lead these people to that conclusion.

It all seems so simple to you and yet I still do not understand - when a church or congregation decides on a belief and is a stated part of their church it has usually become a doctrine because someone made it so. If there were not any differences in that doctrine all churches and Christians would believe in the same thing, soul sleep. Because that is not the case, there are many who believe and many who do not believe (people are taught in their church or Bible study that they are instantly with the Lord and there is no Soul Sleep) and they come to this conclusion with the Bible - so here is a difference in doctrine but both using the same Bible - Soul Sleep is taught and to BE Wil the Lord immediately is taught. Soul Sleep is definately a SDA doctrine but no a Baptist doctrine - it is a concept believed by many but definately not all. Maybe I am asking this question wrong - I found this:

Soul Sleep:
It was first defended by Arnobius of Sicca (c. 327 A.D.),

I am just trying to find the teaching of it to a congregation, it's beginnings - and I know what you are showing me with the Bible verses, I understand what you mean, I am trying to get a direct answer to a question, just a name as I cannot find a lot of information about it at this point other than the pros and cons of its existence.[/font]

 

[djconklin]

You answer me as though I am to assume that all these people got together and had read and decided that the Bible taught Soul Sleep and they all automatically knew that and there was never a need to be taught that concept or an explanation to lead these people to that conclusion.

Actually, what I said was that when we were taught about the state of the dead the guys giving us Bible studies only used the Bible. I would have been worried if they suddenly shifted gears and started making an appeal to what some guy or woman taught. The only thing that matters to me is what the Bible says on the subject at hand. It's not like God is going to have a surprise final exam at the Pearly Gates to "quiz" you on what so-and-so said on any given subject.

when a church or congregation decides on a belief and is a stated part of their church it has usually become a doctrine because someone made it so.

Not exactly, but I see where you are coming from.

When the Millerite movement ended some people still retained their faith in God and the Bible and they studied it. But, it wasn't an organized venture or anything in which only those who were "high and mighty" in the group could decide what we would believe.

 

[OntheDL]

If you read the story of Jesus resurrecting Lazarus, it tells you Martha knew the dead would rest in grave and be resurrected at the end of the world. Job (possibly before the flood) and Solomon knew that. Also Peter preached it in his first sermon in Acts 2 about King David not ascended yet. The believers of the Lord always knew about the state of the dead.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul was brought into the early church along with other pagan practices.

During the Protestant Reformation, the Reformation pioneers rediscovered this truth. The protestant world held this view until the end of 19th and the begining of 20th century when spiritualism flourished.

 

[Darlene7]

Thank you both Djconklin and ontheDL - I appreciate your time with my question and for giving me the answers you have supplied -
Darlene

 

[Sophia7]

Darlene,

Actually, the doctrine of soul sleep and the Adventist view of conditional immortality are slightly different. Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that people have innately immortal souls that can be separated from the body and live on after death, whether consciously or unconsciously in "sleep." In other words, Adventists believe that the whole person (body, thoughts, emotions, everything) dies temporarily at death, to be granted immortality only at the Second Coming of Jesus, when the righteous will be resurrected. Adventists also believe that the unrighteous have no access to everlasting life but will be resurrected and then completely destroyed in the final judgment, thus experiencing the second death talked about in Revelation. This is known as the conditionalist view of hell, or what some people call annihilationism. You can read the Adventist Fundamental Beliefs here. (Beliefs 26 and 27 deal with death and hell, but they are just a brief overview.)

I found an article on Adventist history from the Adventist Review (one of the Seventh-day Adventist Church's official publications). This should help you to understand the historical development of the doctrine of conditional immortality, among other beliefs, in Adventism. Here is a portion of it:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The Final Doctrinal Pillar:
Conditional Immortality
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Beyond the doctrine of Christ’s two-phase ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, the seventh-day Sabbath, and the Second Advent, Sabbatarian Adventists would have one more belief that they considered a “pillar doctrine.” That fourth doctrine had to do with humanity’s true nature. Most Christians throughout history have believed, following Greek philosophy, that people are born immortal. Thus when their bodies die, their spirits or souls go either to heaven to live with God or to an eternally burning hell. But a minority of Bible students down through history have looked at the issue through Hebrew rather than Greek eyes and have denied the teaching of innate immortality. Adventism’s founders belonged to the latter camp.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The Sabbatarian Adventist understanding on the nature of humanity came through two sources. One was the teaching of George Storrs. Storrs, a Methodist minister, became convinced in 1840 after several years of Bible study that a person does not possess inherent immortality, but receives it only as a gift through Christ. As a result, the wicked who refuse the gift will be utterly exterminated by fire at the second death. Those conclusions led him to withdraw from the Methodist ministry.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]In 1841 Storrs anonymously published An Inquiry: Are the Souls of the Wicked Immortal? In Three Letters. The next year he published an expanded version under his name as An Inquiry: Are the Souls of the Wicked Immortal? In Six Sermons. Although Storrs joined the Millerite movement in 1842, his views on immortality didn’t get much of a hearing since Miller and his associates saw Millerism as a one-doctrine movement. Josiah Litch, in fact, in April 1844 began publishing a 32-page periodical in opposition to Storrs entitled The Anti-Annihilationist. Storrs’s first ministerial convert was Charles Fitch, who wrote him in January 1844 that “after much thought and prayer, and a full conviction of duty to God, [I am] prepared to take my stand by your side” on the topic of “the state of the dead” (Charles Fitch to George Storrs, Jan. 25, 1844). Storrs’s teachings on the topic wouldn’t catch on in most of Adventism until after 1844.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]A second source for the Sabbatarian Adventist understanding of the concept of conditional immortality came through the Christian Connexion with its desire to get back to the teachings of the Bible on every topic and move beyond the theological deviations that had crept in during the history of the Christian church. James White and Joseph Bates brought conditionalism (the doctrine that people are not born immortal but are granted immortality as a result of their faith in Jesus) and annihilationism (the belief that since people do not have innate immortality they will perish in the fires of hell rather than be endlessly tortured because they cannot die) with them from the Connexion.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Ellen Harmon discovered those doctrines from the same source, albeit indirectly. As a Methodist, she had been raised with the idea of innate immortality and a hell that burned people forever. Those doctrines created great perplexity in her young mind. “When the thought took possession of my mind that God delighted in the torture of His creatures, who were formed in His image, a wall of darkness seemed to separate me from Him” (LS 31).

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]A revised understanding on the topic came through her mother who had most likely come into contact with conditionalism at meetings she attended at the Casco Street Christian (Connexion) Church in Portland, Maine, in the early 1840s. Ellen subsequently heard her mother discussing the topic with a friend and talked to her about it. But it would be several months more before the girl became convicted on the biblical truthfulness of the topic. Once she accepted it, she saw how nicely it integrated with Adventist theology. As she put it, “My mind had often been disturbed by its efforts to reconcile the immediate reward or punishment of the dead with the undoubted fact of a future resurrection and judgment. If at death the soul entered upon eternal happiness or misery, where was the need of a resurrection of the poor moldering body? But this new and beautiful faith taught me the reason why inspired writers had dwelt so much upon the resurrection of the body; it was because the entire being was slumbering in the grave” (ibid. 48-50).

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]In short, conditional immortality harmonized fully with Adventist theology as the founders of Sabbatarianism understood the Bible in 1847. Beyond that, it would support the teaching of the investigative judgment, a topic that would be widely accepted by the late 1850s.[/FONT]

 

[Darlene7]

Sophia7
Thank you so much, exactly what I was looking for - appreciate so much you time and effort to get this posted and it is very helpful.
Again, thanks
Darlene

 

[3DSabbath07]

It didn't come from either of the two; rather, it came from Jesus' own words.

"After saying this, he told them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going there to awaken him." The disciples said to him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will be all right." Jesus, however, had been speaking about his death, but they thought that he was referring merely to sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
(Joh 11:11-14 NRSV)

AMEN!!!

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Darlene,

Actually, the doctrine of soul sleep and the Adventist view of conditional immortality are slightly different. Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that people have innately immortal souls that can be separated from the body and live on after death, whether consciously or unconsciously in "sleep." In other words, Adventists believe that the whole person (body, thoughts, emotions, everything) dies temporarily at death, to be granted immortality only at the Second Coming of Jesus, when the righteous will be resurrected. Adventists also believe that the unrighteous have no access to everlasting life but will be resurrected and then completely destroyed in the final judgment, thus experiencing the second death talked about in Revelation. This is known as the conditionalist view of hell, or what some people call annihilationism. You can read the Adventist Fundamental Beliefs here. (Beliefs 26 and 27 deal with death and hell, but they are just a brief overview.)

I found an article on Adventist history from the Adventist Review (one of the Seventh-day Adventist Church's official publications). This should help you to understand the historical development of the doctrine of conditional immortality, among other beliefs, in Adventism. Here is a portion of it:

now that is what I call a good article. hooray for cut and paste

 

[TrustAndObey]

I don't think it's too wild of a speculation to think that quite a few people had the exact same view of death after reading the Bible themselves. When I read the Bible I sought out other people that felt the same way I did, about death, and a lot of things.

I read the bible and although there are still quite a few things that I'm sketchy about, death was certainly something that I felt the Bible covered very thoroughly. It went against everything I was taught in my childhood church, but there was no denying the truth of scripture once I finally read it for myself.

Starting with the soul....we don't "have" souls, we ARE souls. Our souls sleep every night, so the term "soul sleep" really is a little confusing to some people because they seem to think our souls are some separate, walking, talking entity within us that departs at death.

It's a very in-depth discussion that can't just be contained in a phrase like soul sleep honestly. First you have to discuss what a soul IS exactly (animals are souls, like us).

Adventists do not deny that our spirits return to God upon death, but our spirits aren't walking, talking entities within us either.

I do think the spirit is more than inhaling oxygen, just for the record.

I think Sophia answered Darlene's question, but I just wanted to expound a little about the belief of "soul sleep".