soul/self

[Spiritlight]

There is flesh and blood and there is spirit! I don't know if spirit needs to be divided. Maybe tht is like dividing flesh and blood in two. body is temporary.You know deep inside part of you will not die. a part of us is in touch with the physcal. a part of us is connected with the universe in the spiritual realm. This is all I know about this.

 

[juvenissun]

There is flesh and blood and there is spirit! I don't know if spirit needs to be divided. Maybe tht is like dividing flesh and blood in two. body is temporary.You know deep inside part of you will not die. a part of us is in touch with the physcal. a part of us is connected with the universe in the spiritual realm. This is all I know about this.

Which part can represent you and are other parts still needed?

 

[Spiritlight]

Which part can represent you and are other parts still needed?

It's all guessing on my part but I feel spirit is the greater part of our existence. A part of me feels always the same regardless of age.

 

[juvenissun]

It's all guessing on my part but I feel spirit is the greater part of our existence. A part of me feels always the same regardless of age.

Good guess. I agree.
But, what other part do we have? I mean we have body, spirit, what else? That should also be something we do not need after death.

 

[Tobias]

Every now and then I try to wrap my mind around the concept(s) of "soul".
If I understand correctly, it´s supposed to be (or carry or contain) our non-physical essence which at some point manifests in a physical entity.

How does the "soul" relate to the "self"? Are these basically the same (i.e. our essence)?

Questions for those who believe that we/our souls go to heaven/hell:

- What exactly is going to heaven/hell (what is my essence)? Which parts/aspects of me? What constitutes the continuity that should prompt me to think of that which will be in heaven/hell as "me"?
Memory?
Character?
Core beliefs?
Thinking patterns?
Emotional make up?
Patterns of perception and interpretation?
Grade of intelligence?
...?

(Same questions go accordingly to those who believe in reincarnation - i.e. what constitutes the continuity that should prompt me to think of a certain existence as "my former existence" or "my future existence"? What are those important aspects that are kept so that I should think "that was me" or "that will be me"?)

TIA

I see a connection between spirit matter and physical matter, that might date back to the Big Bang. That somehow the two grow/develop hand in hand. I imagine this is part of the unseen details about the Universe, that there is a spirit realm overlaid and a part of the physical.

The connection between the physical and spiritual is not absolute. It seems that when spirits develop to a point they are able to find sustained existence with less and less connection to the physical. Ghosts would be an example of spirits disconnected that are not able to sustain themselves. Angels and demons do ok without physical bodies. Unclean spirits that possess humans are driven to do so usually because they are hungry for that physical connection.

Our human bodies come complete with a brain and an emotional center. Some people have learned to live a completely physical existence. Thus all their memories and emotional development is centered in the physical body, and dies with it at the end of life. Other people are more in touch with the spiritual, and live from their spirit being. Their memories are stored in their spirit mind, and spirit emotions. But I'm not sure I can explain how to tell the difference between these two types of existence.

So what stays with us after we die? It all depends on what we allow our spirits to experience. If we are true to ourselves, then our core personality will endure. If we live a life of falsehood and appearances, then no, I don't imagine much of that will be saved.

If we hit an automated heaven/hell eternal afterlife after one time of being human, then I suppose whatever we developed here will be with us forever. But if some are reincarnated, then I think there is a bit of a memory wipe before coming back. Perhaps after a time of reflection, or having a chance to see the results of our life choices, or maybe even reward/punishment. I really don't think its a "one size fit's all" situation.

Jesus said that "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." We have the opportunity right now to live with an awareness of Heaven, and in union with those who serve the Lord. Our spirits are alive and awake right now, and God's Kingdom is right here with us. Paul said that we should "Walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." By focusing on our spiritual life, the physical desires become less prominent.


JIMHO. -- Some ideas I've been kicking around in my head!

 

[GrayAngel]

Could we please keep the ad hominems out of this thread? Thanks.

Hey, you feel free to respond to or repost his questions if you like, but this guy seems to like following me around and finding some way of redirecting the topic to ask me if my faith is "sensible." I've grown tired of that conversation.

 

[quatona]

Hey, you feel free to respond to or repost his questions if you like, but this guy seems to like following me around and finding some way of redirecting the topic to ask me if my faith is "sensible." I've grown tired of that conversation.

...so you continued it anyway?

 

[Spiritlight]

Good guess. I agree.
But, what other part do we have? I mean we have body, spirit, what else? That should also be something we do not need after death.

body, spirit and intelligence lol that's the part I lack, the latter..

 

[3sigma]

Hey, you feel free to respond to or repost his questions if you like, but this guy seems to like following me around and finding some way of redirecting the topic to ask me if my faith is "sensible." I've grown tired of that conversation.

By the way, the questions I asked you in this thread are specifically about the topic. You [post=57409398]said[/post] that it is your soul that includes your personality and memories, but the spirit is something else and when you die, it is your spirit that lives on. You said that when you arrive in heaven, you receive a new body and new soul. Now, setting aside for a moment the fact that none of that nonsense has any basis in fact, how could this new person in heaven still be considered to be you when it doesn’t have your body, doesn’t have your personality and doesn’t have your memories? Your claim dashes the hopes of any Christian who is looking forward to meeting long-dead, former friends and relatives in heaven.

 

[juvenissun]

body, spirit and intelligence lol that's the part I lack, the latter..

I do think we need intelligence in Heaven. See how do angels do God's work. An angel needs to overcome unexpected situation in carrying out God's command. For example, an angel is assigned to protect you from being harmed. Should the angel be "smart" enough to save you from a car accident in a fraction of a second? I wish my guardian angel have enough intelligence to know how to protect me. I might be hit by a meteorite. What should my guardian angel do to make sure that will not happen?

Particularly, if you are going to "help" in managing His kingdom, how could you do anything without your own intelligence? If you depends on God for every detail instruction, why would God still want your help? You will not be a robot who only knows how to praise God in the Heaven.

How much intelligence we will have after death, depends on how much we can learn in the earthly life.

 

[Tobias]

How much intelligence we will have after death, depends on how much we can learn in the earthly life.

See, this is where I think there has to be a separation between our human brain, and our mind which is part of the soul/spirit. There are certain mental exercises which are meant to develop the memory capabilities of the brain. We can learn to speed read, and memorize people's names. I don't think that everything we learn here on Earth will be with us forever.

Spiritual lessons come at a much slower pace than our brains can memorize facts. They are taught through experience. This is the danger in acting like a Pharisee, and modifying our behaviour based upon what our brains learn in religion. Our behaviour needs to be changed through experience. The tests and trials of life change us on a much deeper level than we can ever hope to do with a forced lifestyle modification we've memorized for ourselves. I think one changes the physical person, and the other changes the spirit-man/soul.

 

[juvenissun]

See, this is where I think there has to be a separation between our human brain, and our mind which is part of the soul/spirit. There are certain mental exercises which are meant to develop the memory capabilities of the brain. We can learn to speed read, and memorize people's names. I don't think that everything we learn here on Earth will be with us forever.

Spiritual lessons come at a much slower pace than our brains can memorize facts. They are taught through experience. This is the danger in acting like a Pharisee, and modifying our behaviour based upon what our brains learn in religion. Our behaviour needs to be changed through experience. The tests and trials of life change us on a much deeper level than we can ever hope to do with a forced lifestyle modification we've memorized for ourselves. I think one changes the physical person, and the other changes the spirit-man/soul.

Physically, none of us can remember everything we experienced in our earthly life. But whatever we remembered, I think it will carry on. For example, I will remember who is my mom in the Heaven: "Hey, you were my earthly mom, it is so nice to see you again".

God is continuously teaching us in our earthly life. God will not give His teaching to us in vain. Those lessons we learned and remembered SHOULD continue to be part of us.

The learning is interesting. Suppose we learned 100 facts. What have we really learned? Certainly not every details of the 100 facts, but is the summary, the extraction of the 100 facts.

 

[Tobias]

Well, if we are talking about those who make it to Heaven; we do get new bodies. I would imagine that God has the technology to retain some of our mental knowledge and upload it into the new vessel. But even then, the memories of pain and suffering are supposed to be wiped clean.

These kinds of memories don't necessarily have to be kept in the soul however. People who die and are not met by angels talk about experiences of disorientation, and loss of memory.

 

[juvenissun]

Well, if we are talking about those who make it to Heaven; we do get new bodies. I would imagine that God has the technology to retain some of our mental knowledge and upload it into the new vessel. But even then, the memories of pain and suffering are supposed to be wiped clean.

These kinds of memories don't necessarily have to be kept in the soul however. People who die and are not met by angels talk about experiences of disorientation, and loss of memory.

May be.

However, God promises us have no more pain/tear, but He does not say we will forget our painful experience on earth. I guess in the Great White Throne Judgment, all those bad things will be reviewed.

 

[Girder of Loins]

Well, to me, a soul is our essence. It is our lifeblood. However, it is very different than spirit, but thats another topic. So, the soul is not memories, but the emotions behind those memories. Memories are obviously stored in the brain in neurons, and the soul is very different than the brain. The soul includes our free will. Take the soul as the headquarters. It pulls info from every part of our body, makes the desicion, than sends that to the brain, which then orders your body to do the action prsecribed. So yeah, that is the soul.

 

[Tobias]

I think most Charismatic churches teach that Man is a three part being; body, soul, and spirit. I haven't found it that useful of a teaching, so I'm just referencing it for the sake of discussion. The body portion includes the brain and natural instincts that drive us to anger, lust, and other vices. The spirit is reborn at salvation and is perfect. And the soul consists of the mind, will, and emotions; and must be wrestled with throughout life to bring it in line with the Word.

Even in this teaching we see people having a physical mind, and a soulish mind. I can't tell any practical difference between the soul and the spirit though. I get the impression that somebody studied the heck out of their bible and came up with this idea, and never bothered to make sure their theory worked in real life before teaching it as fact!

 

[juvenissun]

I think most Charismatic churches teach that Man is a three part being; body, soul, and spirit. I haven't found it that useful of a teaching, so I'm just referencing it for the sake of discussion. The body portion includes the brain and natural instincts that drive us to anger, lust, and other vices. The spirit is reborn at salvation and is perfect. And the soul consists of the mind, will, and emotions; and must be wrestled with throughout life to bring it in line with the Word.

Even in this teaching we see people having a physical mind, and a soulish mind. I can't tell any practical difference between the soul and the spirit though. I get the impression that somebody studied the heck out of their bible and came up with this idea, and never bothered to make sure their theory worked in real life before teaching it as fact!

In this discussion, I never tried to separate soul from spirit. I do not have much idea about their differences either. I guess spirit only includes the "good" part of the soul. For example, happy belong to the spirit, but hate would only be in the soul. Soul could be ugly, but spirit can only be beautiful.