Soul Destroying Egalitarianism

[keith99]

I’m aware of that, but he’s trying to prove America is better than “Europe” and that “Europe” is going to the dogs, by arguing that America has the best universities in the world but so does the UK. Whut? How does it make any sense to say that nowhere else in the world are universities as good as the American and British ones, so Europe sucks?

Does this mean he thinks The Sarbonne and the Max Planck Institutes are poor schools?

I'm more inclined to think he is simple ignorant of fine schools across the globe.

 

[atomweaver]

Wikipedia contains articles listing countries by per capita income, Human Development Index, and so forth. If you're interested, give it a look.

It is very true that America has some of the best universities in the world. It's our pre-college education that is terrible.

I'll take my, chance, here to point out my personal peeve every time American education gets raised as a subject of discussion; there is no such thing as the monolithic entity called "The US Education System". What US secondary education is, is a collection of 50 different state programs. When you talk about them as a collective, you are discussing what is basically the weighted average of 50 entirely separate entities.

There is greatsecondary school education to be found in the US, and there is horrible secondary school education to be found in the US.

For great performers, Massachusetts is an example; when evaluated separately from the bulk of the US, Massachusetts out-paces all nations in international testing of math and science, with the exception of Japan and Singapore (yes, I'm looking at you, Mr./Mrs. Haughty European... you're owned.)

Likewise, we have states that struggle. Mississippi, Arkansas, and some others lack the resources to adequately educate their young people.

I'd challenge any European to find 49 other nations that they could average their education performance numbers with, and still end up meeting or exceeding US averaged results. Just as a "thought exercise", a more accurate comparison of US education to Western Europe would be arrived at by averaging Eastern Europe and North Africa into the EU, and talk about the average quality of education from that geographical entity, as compared to the US.

Sermon over

 

[jayem]

Can you expand that a bit please? Do tell, it what way(s) is the u.K. part of Europe, and it what way(s) not? Or, would you stay with your "glance at a map" contention?

Well, the British Isles are part of the European sub-continent, and they were separated by the melting of the glaciers and rising sea levels. This formed the English Channel and submerged the land connections. So geographically, the British Isles are Europe. This also means that the earliest inhabitants were of European origin. The England we know today resulted from blending of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon culture with that of the Normans. So the British are culturally European. The English have always been one of the major players in western European history. And the UK is a member state of the EU. So the UK is undoubtedly European--geographically, culturally, historically, and economically.

 

[cantata]

Does this mean he thinks The Sarbonne and the Max Planck Institutes are poor schools?

I'm more inclined to think he is simple ignorant of fine schools across the globe.

This also seems quite likely, yes.

 

[sidhe]

I'll take my, chance, here to point out my personal peeve every time American education gets raised as a subject of discussion; there is no such thing as the monolithic entity called "The US Education System". What US secondary education is, is a collection of 50 different state programs. When you talk about them as a collective, you are discussing what is basically the weighted average of 50 entirely separate entities.

There is greatsecondary school education to be found in the US, and there is horrible secondary school education to be found in the US.

For great performers, Massachusetts is an example; when evaluated separately from the bulk of the US, Massachusetts out-paces all nations in international testing of math and science, with the exception of Japan and Singapore (yes, I'm looking at you, Mr./Mrs. Haughty European... you're owned.)

Likewise, we have states that struggle. Mississippi, Arkansas, and some others lack the resources to adequately educate their young people.

I'd challenge any European to find 49 other nations that they could average their education performance numbers with, and still end up meeting or exceeding US averaged results. Just as a "thought exercise", a more accurate comparison of US education to Western Europe would be arrived at by averaging Eastern Europe and North Africa into the EU, and talk about the average quality of education from that geographical entity, as compared to the US.

Sermon over

It's even worse than that, because of the level of localization in school standards and funding, neighboring counties can have wildly different educational standards.

For instance, I'm from Georgia, but the county where I went to school had excellent programs for gifted children, emphasized honors classes and advance placement testing, and generally produced well-rounded and well-educated students. The next county over? Um...not so much, but they had an excellent magnet school devoted to the arts and produced some talented musicians and actors.

 

[atomweaver]

Does this mean he thinks The Sarbonne

Did you mean to say "La Sorbonne", as in the University of Paris? Sorry, but Ecole Normale Superieure and Ecole Polytechnique both outpace that old dog by miles... unless you ask a Parisian Whether he knew of it or not, discounting La Sorbonne in 2009 is no glaring omission.

and the Max Planck Institutes are poor schools?

I was under the impression that the Max Planck Institutes were part of a non-profit research society, not a proper university...

I'm more inclined to think he is simple ignorant of fine schools across the globe.

QS Top Universities: Top 100 universities in the THE - QS World University Rankings 2007

True or not, he's more or less on track. Take away the UK, and the EU has precious few top universities (18 of 100 in the above rankings, compared to 37/100 for the US, and 17/100 for the UK).

 

[fated]

A couple socialist principles no more make a socialist government than a couple capitalist principles make capitalist one. There are issues with every government model, remember, Hitler was elected.

Actually, I think he was appointed, I made this mistake before.

 

[Beanieboy]

I'm sure if the US bows to having, say, Universal Health Care, that some people's soul will be destroyed, thinking about the idea that every one needs health care, even when they can't afford it. What will happen? People who are sick will be cared for, rather than either remaining, spreading their illness because it goes untreated, or they will (gasp) survive, and not die. People will no longer go bankrupt because a family member has cancer.

Christ said, "I was sick, and you cared for me," or "I was sick, and you did not care for me", because when you care for another, or don't care for another, you are caring, or not caring for Christ himself. When you love your neighbor as yourself, you are literally loving Christ, but when you are not loving your neighbor, you are not loving Christ.

It is that simple.

The US is the ONLY industrialized country that doesn't have universal health care. It is also a very wealthy, powerful country that often demonizes, neglects, or ignores their poor, working on a false myth of meritocracy. The country is to proud to look as close as Mexico or Canada to see if universal health care works, the opinions and health of the population, and its pros and cons, mostly, because they are too proud. Despite being such a wealthy nation, they are 24th in the world for murders per year, under much poorer countries with civil unrest, such as Venezuela (under Chavez), Mexico, Thailand, Jaimaica, Costa Rica, Poland, Russia and Ukraine.

The more I live in Canada, the more the US looks like the biblical account of Sodom in a good mood. Unwilling to admit their faults, unwilling to look to other countries to see if change is good, unwilling to address basic social issues, such as violence, poverty, social injustice, and 45 million Americans being uninsured, which includes children, and any change to address those issues comes under extreme criticism by the same people that dare call themselves Christian, while being unChristlike to their own citizens and neighbors, I often pray for healing from my own native land, because it is greatly in need of The Great Physician.

 

[Beanieboy]

One of the problems with egalitarianism is that if one works very hard, or works a lot, and another does the minimum, the reward is the same. Human nature, then, wants to simply do the minimum required for the reward, seeing going beyond as pointless.

That said, I often wonder how such people, especially those who are Christian, resolve the problem of eternity.

Matthew 20
1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. 2He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3"About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5So they went.

"He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. 6About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'

7" 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.
"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

9"The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

13"But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

16"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."


So, what will happen to such people who, on earth, are so married to their status, their wealth, to the lack of egalitarianism in this world, knowing that they will spend an eternity where there status is no more, nor acknowledged, their wealth gone and of no worth, for there will be no money nor wants or needs, and all that is honored by man is not honored by God, the saints, the angels, or anyone of heaven?

Such a place seems like an internal hell for such a person to exist in, angry about being given the same as another, or even being humbled before another by God himself.

 

[keith99]

Did you mean to say "La Sorbonne", as in the University of Paris? Sorry, but Ecole Normale Superieure and Ecole Polytechnique both outpace that old dog by miles... unless you ask a Parisian Whether he knew of it or not, discounting La Sorbonne in 2009 is no glaring omission.



I was under the impression that the Max Planck Institutes were part of a non-profit research society, not a proper university...



QS Top Universities: Top 100 universities in the THE - QS World University Rankings 2007

True or not, he's more or less on track. Take away the UK, and the EU has precious few top universities (18 of 100 in the above rankings, compared to 37/100 for the US, and 17/100 for the UK).

Thanks regarding the French Instutions. Regarding the Max Planck institutes my data may be dated, but my understanding is they are a bit of both.

On the ranking I suggest you take a look at the methodology. when 40% is based on Peer review the result is that the instutitions that are best known with those reviewing score highest.

I realized just how poorly done some of these rankings are when I was in Grad School and looked at one ranking of Graduate Schools in Business. One such ranked Harvard best in every single category. That surprised me as University of Chicago was miles ahead of everyone else when it came to research at the time. A quick look at the methodology gave the answer. The entire thing was gbased on rankings given by CEOs and there was a huge representation of Harvard Grads in the group.

Two other ranking criteria give an advantage to the U.S. (and perhaps England) where instead losing points is more called for. International faculity and student representation. As a rule Germans, French or other Europeans can come to the U.S. and teach or learn because they speak English. U.S. residents often have little to no skill in any language besides English. (Yes I'm as guilty as most).

Except for student Faculity Ratio I did not see a single thing that really relates to how good the schools are from a students standpoint.

 

[taku60]

Dude, Great Britain is not an extension of America. You can’t just appropriate it when it suits you.

Yes I can, I just did, its a fact that oxford is a good school and is in great britian. That does not mean great britian is a great place to live. They have a good universty that was there since isac newton and they have at least been able to maintain a wonder of the world and not allowed it to be chewed up by socialism and allow gang bangers and degenerates in for the sake of "equal opprotunity". With out actually having been there I would wager to say oxford is a like a little country unto itself kind of like the vatican and they likely have the political pull to stay the way they have.

 

[taku60]

Does this mean I can't get in my car and be in Great Britain in a few hours? That dream is now ruined!

On the history channel they were talking about building a giant vacuum tube from america to britian where a mag lev train travels at like thousands of miles an hour and reachs britian in 30 min.

 

[taku60]

Everyone has equal opprotunity in the US, just becuase its not handed out on a silver platter like in socialist nations does not mean its not there, the US is the only place in the world where I can own an air plane as a private citizen from my own amusment and thats becuase my money is not being extorted as badely by the government (not even close to that end yet but the dream is not quite squelched yet). I started off poor and yes I graduated with an engineering degree and 72K in debt but I would never have been making the money I do now without that top notch education and I even had the opprotunity to go to a school that was likely on that top 100 list for my major (....maybe lol). The reason heath care is not affordable is not because we dont have socialist health care its because there is no regulation of insurance companies and mal practice insuarnce law suits, there is so much money spent on hoop jumping through insurance companies its a joke. Also twisting the bible to call people out that dont support health care is a joke, helping people that need help is one thing but extorting people to that end is how nations fell in the old testimate, sodom and gomorha is over played there are countless empires that fell in the old testimate because they were extorting there people in the name of the "greater good" and idol worshiping. You dont get to take the moral high ground by breaking into someones home and STEALING there evil alcohal and telling them it for there own good, the same way you dont get to take the moral high ground by stealing someones money and giving it to people who dont have health care, people have a hard enough time getting by they dont need you with your hands in their pocket, their first priority is to there own family and THEN to the "needy" if you dont have your own house in order you have no buisness giving money away and you most likely can not afford to have it stolen from you. Also you can not get the expidited medical care in canada like you get in the USA and the doctors and hospitals are not as good, top notch hospitals, doctors and medicine does not come from socialism, socialism has been piggy backing off of the USA copy catting things that were invented and developed here.

I will agree with one thing the germans and other EU nations have produced some top notch INDIVIDUALS who have done great things but that is of no relation to there society and most of them were smart enough to come to the USA because they had the resources here to realize what was in there head so I have a tough time giving a nation of orgin any credit because of a random event that a prodegy child was born there.

 

[DavinMochrie]

Elitism comes form the British Empire. You want that, perhaps we might consider an application to re-join the Commonwealth.... but you'd probably have to clean up your act a bit. We don't just let any riff raff in.

Without Egalitarianism promoted in the French Revolution there would be no War of Independence in America.

So if you find it so soul destroying then leave America and go somewhere else.

 

[Penumbra]

I'll take my, chance, here to point out my personal peeve every time American education gets raised as a subject of discussion; there is no such thing as the monolithic entity called "The US Education System". What US secondary education is, is a collection of 50 different state programs. When you talk about them as a collective, you are discussing what is basically the weighted average of 50 entirely separate entities.

There is greatsecondary school education to be found in the US, and there is horrible secondary school education to be found in the US.

For great performers, Massachusetts is an example; when evaluated separately from the bulk of the US, Massachusetts out-paces all nations in international testing of math and science, with the exception of Japan and Singapore (yes, I'm looking at you, Mr./Mrs. Haughty European... you're owned.)

Likewise, we have states that struggle. Mississippi, Arkansas, and some others lack the resources to adequately educate their young people.

I'd challenge any European to find 49 other nations that they could average their education performance numbers with, and still end up meeting or exceeding US averaged results. Just as a "thought exercise", a more accurate comparison of US education to Western Europe would be arrived at by averaging Eastern Europe and North Africa into the EU, and talk about the average quality of education from that geographical entity, as compared to the US.

Sermon over

Yes, you are correct. I probably should not talk about the US system as a whole.

Also, as was pointed out, even neighboring districts can have wildly different results. I went to a rather poor/mediocre school and one 20 minutes away had the highest stats in the state.

I still tend to lump them a bit together anyway because it's still within one country. I'm usually in favor of de-centralized government and more power for the states except in some cases, and I feel that one of those cases is that there needs to be higher national standards.

-Lyn

 

[taku60]

Elitism comes form the British Empire. You want that, perhaps we might consider an application to re-join the Commonwealth.... but you'd probably have to clean up your act a bit. We don't just let any riff raff in.

Without Egalitarianism promoted in the French Revolution there would be no War of Independence in America.

So if you find it so soul destroying then leave America and go somewhere else.

But america is the only place where I can keep enough of my own money to by my own plane for my own amusment without being taxed to death. Riff raff has many definintions, in my post it is reference to behavior as opposed to social standing, no matter what label you want to put on it there is no getting around the fact that you need quality control for any decent quality of life in a society. even other poor people dont want to be burdened by thugs and gang bangers and thats a big problem in the USA is we give them credibility instead of just wiping the floor with them so lagitimate poor people can work towards a higher life.

 

[exotic walrus]

Everyone has equal opprotunity in the US,

Wrong.

just becuase its not handed out on a silver platter like in socialist nations does not mean its not there, the US is the only place in the world where I can own an air plane as a private citizen

Wrong.

But america is the only place where I can keep enough of my own money to by my own plane for my own amusment without being taxed to death.

& Wrong.

 

[Beanieboy]

Everyone has equal opprotunity in the US, just becuase its not handed out on a silver platter like in socialist nations does not mean its not there, the US is the only place in the world where I can own an air plane as a private citizen from my own amusment and thats becuase my money is not being extorted as badely by the government (not even close to that end yet but the dream is not quite squelched yet). I started off poor and yes I graduated with an engineering degree and 72K in debt but I would never have been making the money I do now without that top notch education and I even had the opprotunity to go to a school that was likely on that top 100 list for my major (....maybe lol). The reason heath care is not affordable is not because we dont have socialist health care its because there is no regulation of insurance companies and mal practice insuarnce law suits, there is so much money spent on hoop jumping through insurance companies its a joke. Also twisting the bible to call people out that dont support health care is a joke, helping people that need help is one thing but extorting people to that end is how nations fell in the old testimate, sodom and gomorha is over played there are countless empires that fell in the old testimate because they were extorting there people in the name of the "greater good" and idol worshiping. You dont get to take the moral high ground by breaking into someones home and STEALING there evil alcohal and telling them it for there own good, the same way you dont get to take the moral high ground by stealing someones money and giving it to people who dont have health care, people have a hard enough time getting by they dont need you with your hands in their pocket, their first priority is to there own family and THEN to the "needy" if you dont have your own house in order you have no buisness giving money away and you most likely can not afford to have it stolen from you. Also you can not get the expidited medical care in canada like you get in the USA and the doctors and hospitals are not as good, top notch hospitals, doctors and medicine does not come from socialism, socialism has been piggy backing off of the USA copy catting things that were invented and developed here.

I will agree with one thing the germans and other EU nations have produced some top notch INDIVIDUALS who have done great things but that is of no relation to there society and most of them were smart enough to come to the USA because they had the resources here to realize what was in there head so I have a tough time giving a nation of orgin any credit because of a random event that a prodegy child was born there.

Did you receive money for school, grant money, that rich kids don't receive? How is that "equal"?

Do we have equal opportunities if you applied to Harvard, and I applied to Harvard, but I got in because of legacy (my father went there), but your father couldn't afford to go because he didn't have enough money, or perhaps, wasn't allowed because of his skin color. Is that "equal"? Do we have the same opportunities? If my father is rich and has pull, does that make our opportunities "equal", or do I have a clear advantage? If I am white, I am not going to be accused of getting the job because of my race, but if you are black, as my partner is, you will, as he has, and still does, have to prove yourself over and over, to show that you didn't get the job because of Affirmative Action, and that yes, surprise, surprise, African-American candidates are competent, and can get PhDs because they worked hard and earned them like everyone else. The difference is that he is constantly asked to "prove it."



The Myth of Meritocracy
The Meritocracy Myth

 

[DavinMochrie]

But america is the only place where I can keep enough of my own money to by my own plane for my own amusment without being taxed to death.

You've never heard of Australian Billionaires?

Guess who owns the Fox Network?

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

You've never heard of Australian Billionaires?

Guess who owns the Fox Network?

and Wall street.