Sorry, yet another 'Quaker Questions' thread

[UKChristian]

Hello all.

I am currently on, for want of a better word, a spiritual journey whereby I am looking into other things apart from the Anglican Church which has been part of my life since birth as my dad is a retired Church Of England vicar. I am very interested in the Quakers for several reasons but just want to check I've got a few things right in my head and also ask a few questions. I do apologise as there seem to be lots of threads on this forum asking Quakers to explain things.

1. I am pretty sure my local Meeting House is a Liberal Quaker meeting house and therefore I would imagine(correct me if I'm wrong) would have a proportion of people who don't consider themselves Christian. With this in mind, I would like to ask why someone who isn't a Christian would want to be a Quaker. I'm led to believe you can get atheist Quakers. It is beyond me why an Atheist would want to attend any religious service. Can someone please explain this?

2. Plain dress. How seriously do Quakers take this? I am not someone who dresses flamboyantly by any means but have a lot of t-shirts with slogans/bands etc and am slightly uncomfortable with being told how to dress even though the way I dress by choice could be described as moderately plain.

3. Pacifism. I don't consider myself a pacifist in the truest sense of the word. Whilst I would consider myself 'Non Violent', there are some things I struggle withas far as full blown pacifism is concerned. WWII is one of these(I do believe WWI was not necessary and if it hadn't have happened WWII would not have happened either. However, as it did, I also believe Hitler had to be stopped and negotiating with him simply wasn't working). Aside from WWII, I am pretty much a pacifist(although if I was subject to an unprovoked attack I can not, with hand on heart, state I would not defend myself. I would try to do so without harming the attacker, just stopping them but can not guarantee that would be the case. This is another issue I have).

I don't seem to fit in any mainstream Christian denomination(with the possible exception of Anglicanism if I can find the right church which is proving difficult) and the Quakers(and Anabaptists for that matter. I was very impressed when, on a recent trip to America I visited an Old Order Mennonite Community in Kentucky, however, very little in the way of Anabaptist churches over here in the UK) do appeal to me but I have concerns.

 

[Michael Snow]

Hello UK, I am from South Dakota and not near any Quakers. I am not a member of the Religious Society of Friends though they have had a strong influence on my life. Elton Trueblood was a mentor and I graduated from Earlham seminary.Most of my experience has been with 'programmed Friends' meetings, i.e. those with pastors.

1. In my mind an "atheist Quaker" is a true oxymoron. I have no idea how many there might be, but I would guess it very minimal. I only ran across this 'category' recently and it was a surprise, well, actually a shock.

2. Plain Dress. It might be hard to find a Quaker in the old traditional dress. Many do try to maintain their witness of simplicity but for the most part, you can not tell them from regular folks.

3. Pacifism. In the U.S., many Quakers have been 'Americanized.' Though many will know that it is part of their heritage, there are many that downplay it or ignore it.

Ironically, my very first attendance at a Quaker Meeting was in the D.C. area, attending with a college friend who had a friend who was a Friend and I was stationed at the Marine base in Quantico, shaved head and all.

As a pacifist, I would basically agree with your take on WWII. I look at it as Part 2 of the "war to end all wars." A line was crossed in WWI and we reap what we sow. I wrote a short book reflecting on the Christmas truce of 1914 and the attending circumstances of the war. My book on Christian Pacifism is an ebook now on amazon where you can use the "Look Inside" feature to read a bit of my story.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Christian-P...KH62/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1327374860&sr=8-2

I'd recommend reading some of the old classics: George Fox's Journal, Wm Penn's No Cross, No Crown, Wm Barclay's Apology. They are in the Amazon Uk Kindle selection for minimal price. You do NOT need to own a Kindle to read Kindle books. When you 'buy' you are given a free reading app for your PC to download.

I noted that this by Penn is currently free there: A Brief Account of the Rise and Progress of the People Called Quakers.

It is brief and gives you the background.

 

[childofdust]

With this in mind, I would like to ask why someone who isn't a Christian would want to be a Quaker. I'm led to believe you can get atheist Quakers. It is beyond me why an Atheist would want to attend any religious service. Can someone please explain this?

This kind of thing doesn't have to apply only to Quakers. I am Mennonite and we have several people who come to our church and participate who are not Christian. I'm sure there could be different reasons for it, but the reason I see it in my church is this:

A person who isn't Christian meets Christ in some way and responds favorably, but they have no desire to become Christian. Usually, they don't believe Yeshua is God or other (in my opinion) peripheral things, and they go it alone. They do, however, believe Yeshua's way is correct and try to follow it in some manner. Like, for instance, Luke 9:49-50 where there is a man who upset the apostles because he was going around acting in Yeshua's name but was not part of the church (or “one of us&#8221. But if they find a church full of Christians who are, nevertheless, living in a way that corresponds to the way of Yeshua as they see it, they may end up attending and getting involved. This sort of thing is not likely to happen at a conservative church because the conservative church will require them to become Christian, whereas a liberal one will welcome them as they are. My Mennonite church is liberal, so several non-Christians come to our church and events and participate.

It is amazing to see people who are not, technically, Christian, worshiping God and learning righteousness! Perhaps some day they will become Christian.

 

[CelticRose]

OK, I identify as Quaker & I have *met* in on~line meetings aethiest Quakers so I'll have a shot at answering your questions.

1. The format of an unstructured Quaker meeting is such that one does not need to be religious in order to participate. Most of the hour meeting will be in silence. Why do aethiests come? I have asked so here are some of the sorts of things I've been told: because the meeting is not religious & mostly silent they use the time to meditate, to sort out problems, to have time out from their regular activities. Christians would use that time to connect with God.

2. Few Quakers go to the extreme in plain dress. There is a great deal of flexability in the practice of one's faith & for individual leadings/promptings of the Holy Spirit. Most dress just like everyone else. Usually the emphasis goes on being responsible stewards: choosing materials/ clothing that is servicable, long~wearing, not made in sweatshops,etc. A vegetarian Quaker might not wear leather shoes as part of their overall testimony. The aim is for a heart change that is reflected in the outward things.

3. Quakers are non~violent rather than pacificst [there is a difference] but as in all things Quaker it is left up to the individual to determine with the Holy spirit how they are to respond. Thus you will find some Quakers have served their country as soldiers in conflicts; some have served on medical teams or as drivers & some have gone to jail for refusing to enlist in the armed forces.

Quakers do tend to be very accepting of *seekers* & those who are on different spiritual paths than Christianity. There are oftern all sorts partaking in Meeting on any given Sunday unless you happen to have an evangelical Christian Meeting. I don't & rarely actually attend Meeting as I identify first & foremost as *Christian*. However I love silent worship & that every person is viewed as a priest after the order of Melchizadek[ sp?], & that anyone at all is free to speak if led by the Holy Spirit to do so.

Hope that helps. May God bless your search.

 

[UKChristian]

Thanks for your comments. I still haven't attended a meeting yet. I identify first and foremost as 'Christian' I suppose. I may well try the meeting out soon. And Michael Snow, I've spent a fair bit of time in South Dakota. Your state is beautiful

 

[Michael Snow]

OK, I identify as Quaker...so I'll have a shot at answering your questions.

3. Quakers are non~violent rather than pacificst [there is a difference]...

Non-violent is a broader term whereas pacifism, strictly speaking, applies to the refusal to bear arms in war. Quakers faithful to their "Peace Testimony" would be technically 'pacifists' as well as non-violent.

Pacifism is a "recent" word that has, to some extent, become more favorable.
An excellent article here by a Mennonite professor [their traditional term is 'non-retalitaion']:

How Does Pacifism (Properly Understood) Work as a Core Christian Conviction? | Thinking Pacifism