Sorry if this sounds mean...

It's a difficult issue. On one hand, threats of suicide DO attract attention, and they can be used to get attention. However, you have to consider whether that attention, by itself, is automatically a bad thing!

In my struggle with depression, suicide and self-injury, I manipulated people. I'd suggest that when you reach your limit, it's all but impossible NOT to manipulate people! You desperately NEED attention and love or you really believe you WILL commit suicide!

It can become a problem if it becomes a habit. Asking for help is necessary, and I applaud anybody who DOES mention suicide. A good part of recovery is coming to terms with your thoughts and feelings and acknowledging that they exist and learning how to deal with them in healthy ways... Stuffing your feelings to avoid affecting the rest of the world can only guarentee that nothing will change. If you're happy where you are, fine. But if you want you want to continue in recovery, there has to be some continuous dialogue -- both with professionals and friends.

I have met people who habitually use their depression to get their way and who are completely satisfied with where they are at. At the same time, I acknowledge that people who are struggling need attention and love, and it will take months if not years for THEM to notice any changes (though they're usually much more obvious from the outside). Having been there, I don't mind being used as a "crutch" for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are struggling. We're called to be crutches for our family in the hard times, and I deeply respect those who DO reach out for help even when all they want is to retreat and die.

RJHarmony84 said:

Ok, this probably doesn't apply to anyone in here, and I'm sorry if I offend, but what's up with all the people who say "i'm thinking about suicide" to get a little sympathy? I can't stand ppl like that! They think just 'cause they're a little depressed they can spout 'suicide' to make ppl notice them. I hate that! I've been manic depressive and seriously thinking about suicide for over 5 years now, and I'm still around, still struggling, still hanging on. And I don't go around waving my 'suicidal flag' so ppl will notice!!

Click to expand...

Irony of ironies, you just waved the 'suicide flag'

75% of depression cases are never diagnosed. Some people just need a shoulder to cry on. I'm more than glad to provide that service. If you don't want to, send 'em to me. If you need a shoulder to cry on, let me know.

RJHarmony84 said:

Ok, this probably doesn't apply to anyone in here, and I'm sorry if I offend, but what's up with all the people who say "i'm thinking about suicide" to get a little sympathy? I can't stand ppl like that! They think just 'cause they're a little depressed they can spout 'suicide' to make ppl notice them. I hate that! I've been manic depressive and seriously thinking about suicide for over 5 years now, and I'm still around, still struggling, still hanging on. And I don't go around waving my 'suicidal flag' so ppl will notice!!

Click to expand...

Well your right about one thing you do sound mean I never understand people like you who struggle with the vary thing your talking about. And I don't agree! if someone feels vulnerable to share that then it must be a big deal in there life and Christian forums is the one safe place that I can share anything.

RJHarmony84 said:

I kno...I just can't stand people who use the word suicide as a crutch, and don't actually want anything mor than attention... I mean why do that? I'ts so dumb...you talk about suicide long enough you'll really want to try it, it's like playing with a match and a gasoline can. Really dumb, in the common-sense meaning of the word. And it offends people who are actually struggling with a real problem, because they can't tell they're faking and try to help, only to dicover the person isn't actually even very depressed.

Click to expand...

I would wonder how you can judge which people are just using the word for attention and which are really struggling.

From experience, I can say I ABSOLUTELY used the word for nothing more than attention. But it was at a time in my life when I needed that attention more than anything else in the world. Sometimes crying out for help -- even in the form of attention and love -- is something that should be praised, not discouraged!

Now I could CERTAINLY have CONTINUED to use suicidal thoughts to get attention -- even as I started to find good coping skills. And to be honest, you do have a point in that there COULD be people who never take the steps to be free of depression simply because it's easier to feel loved by scaring others into caring than by years of hard work learning to love yourself!

In my (admittedly limited) experience, those people are few and far between if they exist at all. With depression and other similar disorders, rational thought is often one of the last priorities. Survival is first, and it leads people to act differently than they would otherwise. SI -- the topic of this forum is a prime example!

Struggling people need both professional help, and friends who ARE willing to listen, care and love! Without both, it's SO easy to fall into the cycle you're describing where suicide is mentioned to GET love. However, it doesn't make the feelings any less intense, and it doesn't solve the problem. If you REALLY want somebody to stop talking about suicide, give your time and concern in love. Help them by being a friend and help them find professional help!

People don't say they're suicidal just for attention. But people who say they are suicidal DO need love and support!

Intrepidman said:

Irony of ironies, you just waved the 'suicide flag'

75% of depression cases are never diagnosed. Some people just need a shoulder to cry on. I'm more than glad to provide that service. If you don't want to, send 'em to me. If you need a shoulder to cry on, let me know.

Click to expand...

ditto

RJHarmony84 said:

I guess I'm just tired of trying to help ppl like me and failing miserably...or finding out that they don't need help...I don't kno which is worse...

Click to expand...

In order to help those like you, You have to be strong enough in yourself to do so.
You can't go after something with alot of zeal and zest and let your own past failures determine the outcome. Ones own mindset has alot to do with this too.
I know that alot of these young people need help and have actively sought it out.
If someone doesn't accept your help, Chances are they have a support person somewhere. Don't push issues. That will only make things worse.


Getting back to the OP tho.

I believe that when one uses the word suicide, Not only might they be looking for attention. But, Also they are reaching out cause they know there is a problem. Don't fault them for that.
Sometimes truth is nice, But, Harshness is not.
We have all been in this place at one time or another. If not for a girl I dated years ago, I would not be here period.

You also have to keep in mind that there are certain things that one does and says besides talking about suicide itself.

The key is to be able to SEE and NOTICE the signs and signals.
I can attest to that, My ex wife ignored them for months.

Bottom line here ??

Try listening when a person says they are considering suicide.
Look at the surroundings,
Look at the behaviours,
Hoplessness and helplessness are very easy to see.
Being mean accomplishes nothing to help the situation or person.
Consideration and Compassion DO.

I know for a fact that I used the 'suicide' tact to get attention. I didnt want to commit suicide. I was 13, a teenager. i asked a fellow pupil how many paracetomals I needed to take to end it all. I dont condem anyone who crys suicide even if it is 'just' for attention there is obviously an underlying reason. However infureating they may seem. its the undelying issue which needs looking at. It was ages after that I realized that i was seeking attention
Penguin

I think it’s really important to know that it is better that they talk about it then just ignore the symptoms of Suicidal tendencies. I personally would never tell you all when or if I was suicidal. First of all I know how helpless it feels to be trying to help someone when they are in another state or even country.

Now this does not mean I don’t have those thoughts, or feelings. It just means I understand what it does to others. I have a friend who committed suicide 1 week before his baby daughter was born. He never talked about it and no one knew he was depressed.

So maybe its better that they say something now then Waite and.. Some, not all suicidal people are the real thing. I’d rather help them all just so the few real ones get help.

tears

What, would you rather someone just blew their brains out and not talk about it? Of all the suicides, more than 80% were caused by depression or a mental illness. When I was seriously suicidal, it was hard for me to even talk about it to anyone. It wasn't till I cut my wrist that anyone really took it seriously. I heard that you should never tell someone who talks of suicide, that they are bluffing. It is far better to believe the person than think they are bluffing then find out one day too late, they really meant it and killed themself. But sometimes when I talk of suicide, I just really wanted to know if anybody actually cared if I lived or died.

RJHarmony84 said:

Ok, this probably doesn't apply to anyone in here, and I'm sorry if I offend, but what's up with all the people who say "i'm thinking about suicide" to get a little sympathy? I can't stand ppl like that! They think just 'cause they're a little depressed they can spout 'suicide' to make ppl notice them. I hate that! I've been manic depressive and seriously thinking about suicide for over 5 years now, and I'm still around, still struggling, still hanging on. And I don't go around waving my 'suicidal flag' so ppl will notice!!
(edit-apparently my real issue here hasn't been apparent--I'm NOT talking about those of us who have real issues, real problems. I'm talking about the people who take the "Ohhh I'm sick" on a school day to another level, and who are only begging for more attention or more popularity, a moment of fame, the people who really only need to get over themselves. I have an issue with fakes, and an issue with my own difficulty in telling real from fake. It's more than annoying to give your support and care to someone who doesn't need it or want it. But I do care about all of them, whether they really need it or not. I'm just tired of discovering I'm not needed.)

Click to expand...

Those are strong words but I do agree that some of the people who quote suicide are just looking for attention. On the other hand, some of those people might really be reaching out for help. It's kinda like the boy who cried wolf though. You start not believing them when they say it. But I have felt that way many many times and even attempted before. I'm still here but I was never faking it.

Actually it doesn't sound mean, but it sounds absolutely uncaring, irresponsible, and heartbreaking, particulary for those seriously taking there own lives.

I am a counsellor who works within this criteria everyday, and its sad to hear you talk like this.
Anyone who talks about suicide, keeps it to themselves are all at risk. Why do you think a counsellors question would be between 1 - 10 what would you say your suicidal levels are, 10 being the highest.

It takes courage for a client to say they are suicidal, not only that it is in sheer desperation they don't tell anyone.

This is why so many just go ahead and do it out of fear of people like yourself. You've actually admitted in your own post, what you are trying to accuse others off. Quote:- I've been suicidal for 5 yrs, admitted straight out the same accusation.

1. A suicidal person will admit they feel this way, as they know they may not control there movements later ie if they have turned to drink or drugs etc. As hopefully you are aware any drink or drugs become depressants in the end also.

2. A suicidal person may not admit how they feel out of fear of being stopped if they are at level 10. Thats how counsellors know 8,9 or 10 there at risk and need a place of security, ie hospital.

3. You mention those who you think are looking for attention, all suicide tendencies should be taken seriously, whatever the outcome.

If your going to commit suicide you do it, not wait, its an automatic response to how you feel, at that present time.

If I said to you I've been suicidal for 2 years, it would obviously mean I have bouts of it, were medication is needed to alter the chemical serotonin levels in the brain as they are not level. Thats why the thought recurs a lot.

It is always a cry for help one way or another!

I know this sounds blunt, but as a graduated counsellor its the truth.

Im-revived

RJHarmony84 said:

Ok, this probably doesn't apply to anyone in here, and I'm sorry if I offend, but what's up with all the people who say "i'm thinking about suicide" to get a little sympathy? I can't stand ppl like that! They think just 'cause they're a little depressed they can spout 'suicide' to make ppl notice them. I hate that! I've been manic depressive and seriously thinking about suicide for over 5 years now, and I'm still around, still struggling, still hanging on. And I don't go around waving my 'suicidal flag' so ppl will notice!!
(edit-apparently my real issue here hasn't been apparent--I'm NOT talking about those of us who have real issues, real problems. I'm talking about the people who take the "Ohhh I'm sick" on a school day to another level, and who are only begging for more attention or more popularity, a moment of fame, the people who really only need to get over themselves. I have an issue with fakes, and an issue with my own difficulty in telling real from fake. It's more than annoying to give your support and care to someone who doesn't need it or want it. But I do care about all of them, whether they really need it or not. I'm just tired of discovering I'm not needed.)

Click to expand...

But how do you know for sure the girl you described isn't "two-shelled"? I mean, on the outside she is putting on an act and has everything going for her and she is snobbish and popular and just has an outer shell that everyone sees that makes everyone think she is acting like she just is trying to get attention. But how do you know that persons heart may be like a totally different shell, she could be hiding alot of horrible secrets, doubts, fears, and faced with a homelife of having to be perfect. Just because people may be really good actors on the outside don't mean they couldn't be burying stuff deep down and the suicidal thoughts didn't just accidently slip out. It's better to believe someone even if you think they are faking it than one day too late find they committed suicide for real and people say that they never really knew the person, they covered stuff up so well. The more suicidal i feel, the less I would want to talk about it either. Putting up a front is easier since people ignore the warning signs anyhow.

So here's some reality.

I was in a church group and was seriously depressed. I denied suicidal ideologies to everyone, save two people. One of those two had a mouth like a sieve and told a campus pastor...
My intent for telling 2 people was for prayer because I knew I was severely depressed and no medications could help what I was dealing with. I was fighting a blindfold battle against the goliath-sized version of temptations and only my mustard seed of faith mightve helped, so I told them I was struggling with not ending my life for prayer.

The campus pastor who was informed came to me angrily saying I needed to stop making people upset for attention. Telling me I was just like the millions who claim they have a problem to get out of responsibility and everything and then never do anything except absorb the sorrows and attention from their 'audience.'

*******
Ponder what happened next
*******
I tried to end my life. It worked for approximately 57 seconds. It was simply a miracle of God I am even here now. It was one of those same friends I told who was praying when they heard I was in the ER.



Even bringing up subjects like the OP and #4 are basically a slap in the face. There are people who might say or do things for attention, but it's the ones who say those same things with different motives and then are ostracized for those same confessions, or warnings or perhaps cries for help.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is coming from nothing but personal experience and feelings:
There is LITERALLY no more painful thing a person can do then accuse me of doing something for attention.
I have my reasons for that. But just as the OP states why someone is fed up with 'attention seekers' I am fed up with people who label people 'attention seekers.'
If someone does something for that reason only, they still have a problem. Ignoring them is not going to help them. Talking behind their back in post will not resolve anything.
Caring for them despite whatever their flaws will.


Props to Im-Revived. I really liked your post. There were others as well but that is the one which really stuck.