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Sons Of God

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gheetam

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Hi there!! I hope that I am on the right thread.......

In the book of Genesis, there is a passage where the "sons of God" (NKJV) were attracted to beautiful women (my own paraphasing) I have heard of two theories on this - that they are fallen angels OR they are sons of Seth.

Do you agree with the above theories (which one?) OR Anyone has any other explanation on this passage ? Would really like to listen other Christians views on this.

God Bless.
 

daveleau

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Gen 6:2-4 is the passage you are talking about.

The "sons of God" were in the lineage of Noah. The passages before talk of lineage and the passages after mention children. Fallen angels would not have children. There is no mention of fallen angels anywhere near this passage, so the context leads us away from that idea.

God bless,
Dave
 
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Serapha

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gheetam said:
Hi there!! I hope that I am on the right thread.......

In the book of Genesis, there is a passage where the "sons of God" (NKJV) were attracted to beautiful women (my own paraphasing) I have heard of two theories on this - that they are fallen angels OR they are sons of Seth.

Do you agree with the above theories (which one?) OR Anyone has any other explanation on this passage ? Would really like to listen other Christians views on this.

God Bless.


welcome.gif



Hi there!

When you are reading the text, remember that when the book was first written that there weren't any chapter breaks or passage numbers... therefore this text is actually just a continuation of the previous text

Genesis 5 is a geneology which... geneologies are seemingly put in the text at the time when the people are being introduced in the Bible, but before that passage, the subject is Genesis 4, Cain and Abel, and ithen the introduction of geneologies to include the birth of Seth... and if the geneologies are removed, and the text is read uninterrrupted, here it how it would go...



And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. ... And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.









Angels neither marry or are given in marraige.



~serapha~
 
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johnd

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There are "deeper" theories, that the sons of God were fallen angels who possessed men and cohabitated with women and produced the unnatural offspring (nephilim / gigantis). Some believe these offspring are the half-breed demons which are always seeking embodiment, whereas fallen angels have the ability to possess a human being demons have a need to.

As I said, it's rather deep.
 
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Ebed-Yahweh

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daveleau said:
Gen 6:2-4 is the passage you are talking about.

The "sons of God" were in the lineage of Noah. The passages before talk of lineage and the passages after mention children. Fallen angels would not have children. There is no mention of fallen angels anywhere near this passage, so the context leads us away from that idea.

Genesis 6:4. There were giants [nephilim] in the earth ['eretz, land] in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God [bnai ha-'Elohim] came in unto the daughters of men [baht-'adam], and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men [gibborim] which were of old, men of renown [ish ha-shem, men of the name].

Nephilim is derived from the hebrew root nafal which means (among other things) "to fall, to cause to fall, to cast down". Nafal is translated as "fall" 136 times and "fallen" 52 times in the King James Version (See entry numbers 5303 and 5307 in the Hebrew dictionary of the Strong's Concordance). Therefore it is most likely that Nephilim should be translated as fallen ones rather than giants. It is unclear why giants was chosen as the translation other than the inference through other biblical passages that the descendants of the sons of God and the daughters of men were of greater physical stature and power than ordinary mortals.


KJV Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God (bnai ha-'Elohim) came to present themselves before the LORD (YHWH), and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God (bnai ha-'Elohim) came to present themselves before the LORD (YHWH), and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD (YHWH).

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God (bnai ha-'Elohim) shouted for joy?

Psalms 29:1-2
1 Give unto the LORD (YHWH), O ye mighty (bnai 'Elim), give unto the LORD (YHWH) glory and strength.
2 Give unto the LORD (YHWH) the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD (YHWH) in the beauty of holiness.

Psalms 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD (YHWH) ? who among the sons of the mighty (bnai 'Elim) can be likened unto the LORD (YHWH) ?

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God (Bar-'Elah).
Daniel 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God ('Elah) of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel (mal'ach, messenger), and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god ('elah), except their own God ('Elah). (Words are Aramaic, but the meaning is the same)

The preceding verses provide solid proof that the term 'sons of God' is synonymous with angels in the Old Testament. (Ben is Hebrew for son and bnai is the plural of ben while bar is Aramaic). El, Elohim, and Elim are Hebrew (Elah is Aramaic) for the English title, God.)
 
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James1979

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Angels are simply a spirit being, they have no physical body like we humans do. Remember in Genesis God created creatures after their own kind, for instances, humans can only reproduce humans, dogs reproduce dogs, etc. Angels don't have the body parts to make an offspring, so the sons of God in the book of Genesis is referring to the true believers as the daughters of men are considered the unbelievers as in those days and also in our days there were many unbelievers and believers yoking together which is a rebellious act against God's command for that not to happen.

I hope this helps
 
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visionary

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Why were the offspring uniquely designated "mighty" and "men of reknown?" This description characterizing the children is not accounted for if the fathers were merely men, even if godly.

A further difficulty seems to be that the offspring were only men; no "women of reknown" are mentioned. (Was there a chromosome deficiency among the Sethites? Were there only "Y" chromosomes available in this line?) Each human gamete has 23 pairs of chromosomes: the male has both "Y" (shorter) and "X" (longer) chromosomes; the female, only "X" chromosomes. The sex of a fertilized egg is determined by the sperm fertilizing the egg: "X+Y" for a male child; "X+X" for a female. Thus, the male supplies the sex-determining chromosome. Angels are always described as male.

Why did God send the judgment of the Flood in the days of Noah? Far more than simply a historical issue, the unique events leading to the Flood are a prerequisite to understanding the prophetic implications of our Lord's predictions regarding His Second Coming.

The strange events recorded in Genesis 6 were understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, as well as the Septuagint translators, as referring to fallen angels procreating weird hybrid offspring with human women-known as the "Nephilim." So it was also understood by the early church fathers. These bizarre events are also echoed in the legends and myths of every ancient culture upon the earth: the ancient Greeks, the Egyptians, the Hindus, the South Sea Islanders, the American Indians, and virtually all the others.

Like Ebed-Yahweh said the term translated "the Sons of God" is, in the Hebrew, B'nai HaElohim, "Sons of Elohim," which is a term consistently used in the Old Testament for angels,4 and it is never used of believers in the Old Testament. It was so understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, by the Septuagint translators in the 3rd century before Christ, and by the early church fathers. Attempts to apply this term to "godly leadership" is without Scriptural foundation.

If the text was intended to contrast the "sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain," why didn't it say so? Seth was not God, and Cain was not Adam. (Why not the "sons of Cain" and the "daughters of Seth?" There is no basis for restricting the text to either subset of Adam's descendants. Further, there exists no mention of daughters of Elohim.)

Procreation by parents of differing religious views do not produce unnatural offspring. Believers marrying unbelievers may produce "monsters," but hardly superhuman, or unnatural, children! It was this unnatural procreation and the resulting abnormal creatures that were designated as a principal reason for the judgment of the Flood.

"In the mouths of two or three witnesses every word shall be established." In Biblical matters, it is essential to always compare Scripture with Scripture. The New Testament confirmations in Jude and 2 Peter are impossible to ignore.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5 Peter's comments even establishes the time of the fall of these angels to the days of the Flood of Noah.

The Epistle of Jude23 also alludes to the strange episodes when these "angels" intruded themselves into the human reproductive process:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6,7

The allusions to "going after strange flesh," keeping "not their first estate," having "left their own habitation," and "giving themselves over to fornication," seem to clearly fit with Genesis 6. (The term for habitation, oivkhth, rion, refers to their heavenly bodies from which they had disrobed.) The only other use in the New Testament is 2 Corinthians 5:2, alluding to the heavenly body which the believer longs to be clothed.

So how does this occur. Think about the "City of Angels" "Rosemary's Baby" which the themes were angel's mingling their seed with that of man. We are getting more and more of these kind of TV shows and movies, in which brings mankind into a confort zone with the concept that angels are willing and want to mate with humans. The Watchers were angels in ancient documents.

In Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, The Sons of Jacob the Patriarch

Date: second century B.C.

5:6 For it was thus that they charmed the Watchers, who were before the Flood. As they continued looking at the women, they were filled with desire for them, and perpetrated the act in their minds. Then they were transformed into human males, and while the women were cohabiting with their husbands they appeared to them. Since the women’s minds were filled with lust for these apparitions, they gave birth to giants. For the Watchers were disclosed to them as being as high as the heavens.
 
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gheetam

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Ok .... Now I can understand how did the "angel" theory came about.... Over the weekend, I was thinking why did the offsprings were men of renown - just a coincedence or is it coz of the union of two genres. How do you replace the word "giant" to "fallen ones" The whole meaning of that sentence is different if you do that - and if you do replace - what is meaning of the sentence then? It is to point out that the lineage of "Sons of God", though are men of renown but are fallen ones - which I intrepret it as - not with God?

It is quite clear that "sons of God" is a usual term for angels (as you pointed out in the scriptures, Ebed ) so on what basis do you use on ordinary men - other any biblical reference to prove this?

Visionary, I am trying to imagine this...when you say "tranformed" into human beings - you mean to say that they had the power to create a phsyical human male - from scratch and then enter or possess it? Is that possible? Could you eloborate on this?

Thanks so much for you knowledge and willingness to share it!!!

God Bless!!
 
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Ebed-Yahweh

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Angels [messengers] of the LORD [Yahweh] almost always appear as men in the pages of the Bible. Only the Cherubim and Seraphim are described as having wings. Remember also that angels ate the meal prepared for them by Abraham in Genesis ch. 18.

There is an interesting passage in Hebrews which informs us how easily angels might pass for humans.

KJV Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

While the verse speaks only in relation to good angels, I believe this may apply to evil angels as well, although of course we wouldn't do well to entertain them.

Furthermore, Psalm 82 and Isaiah 14 seem clearly to indicate that fallen angels will die as mortals.

KJV Psalms 82:6-7
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

KJV Isaiah 14:9-12
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (See also verses 4-17 in particular).


I wonder if the reason Satan knows his time is short (in Revelation 12:12) is because he is placed in the frail and timebound body of a human.

It's also interesting to compare Isaiah 14:5-6 with Revelation 12:12.

KJV Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

KJV Isaiah 14:5-6
5 The LORD IYahweh] hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.


Btw, it seems Noah was the only surviving male of the line of Seth who remained uncontaminated by Nephilim genes.
Genesis 6:8-9
8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD (Yahweh).
9. These are the generations (toledot) of Noah: Noah was a just man (ish-tzaddiq, righteous man) and perfect (tamim, without defect, blameless) in his generations (dowr, generations, circles, DNA/genetic code?), and Noah walked with God.

Those who want to believe that Noah was spiritually or morally perfect should read Genesis ch. 9 where one of the first things Noah is recorded doing after the Flood is getting drunk and passing out in his tent.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Hello Gheetam!

The sons of God are angelic beings. There is no other alternative. The following is from a website. It puts an end to any belief in a Sethite view on the meaning of the term.

Origin of the Sethite view

It was in the 5th century a.d. that the "angel" interpretation of Genesis 6 was increasingly viewed as an embarrassment when attacked by critics. (Furthermore, the worship of angels had begun within the church. Also, celibacy had also become an institution of the church. The "angel" view of Genesis 6 was feared as impacting these views.)

Celsus and Julian the Apostate used the traditional "angel" belief to attack Christianity. Julius Africanus resorted to the Sethite interpretation as a more comfortable ground. Cyril of Alexandria also repudiated the orthodox "angel" position with the "line of Seth" interpretation. Augustine also embraced the Sethite theory and thus it prevailed into the Middle Ages. It is still widely taught today among many churches who find the literal "angel" view a bit disturbing. There are many outstanding Bible teachers who still defend this view.

Problems with the Sethite view

Beyond obscuring a full understanding of the events in the early chapters of Genesis, this view also clouds any opportunity to apprehend the prophetic implications of the Scriptural allusions to the "Days of Noah."
Some of the many problems with the "Sethite View" include the following:

1. The text itself

Substantial liberties must be taken with the literal text to propose the "Sethite" view. (In data analysis, it is often said that "if you torture the data severely enough it will confess to anything.")


The term translated "the Sons of God" is, in the Hebrew, B'nai HaElohim, "Sons of Elohim," which is a term consistently used in the Old Testament for angels,
and it is never used of believers in the Old Testament. It was so understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, by the Septuagint translators in the 3rd century before Christ, and by the early church fathers. Attempts to apply this term to "godly leadership" is without Scriptural foundation.

The "Sons of Seth and daughters of Cain" interpretation strains and obscures the intended grammatical antithesis between the Sons of God and the daughters of Adam. Attempting to impute any other view to the text flies in the face of the earlier centuries of understanding of the Hebrew text among both rabbinical and early church scholarship. The lexicographical antithesis clearly intends to establish a contrast between the "angels" and the women of the Earth.

If the text was intended to contrast the "sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain," why didn't it say so? Seth was not God, and Cain was not Adam. (Why not the "sons of Cain" and the "daughters of Seth?" There is no basis for restricting the text to either subset of Adam's descendants. Further, there exists no mention of daughters of Elohim.)

And how does the "Sethite" interpretation contribute to the ostensible cause for the Flood, which is the primary thrust of the text? The entire view is contrived on a series of assumptions without Scriptural support.

The Biblical term "Sons of Elohim" (that is, of the Creator Himself), is confined to the direct creation by the divine hand and not to those born to those of their own order.
In Luke's genealogy of Jesus, only Adam is called a "son of God." The entire Biblical drama deals with the tragedy that humankind is a fallen race, with Adam's initial immortality forfeited. Christ uniquely gives them that receive Him the power to become the sons of God. Being born again of the Spirit of God, as an entirely new creation, at their resurrection they alone will be clothed with a building of God and in every respect equal to the angels. The very term oiketerion, alluding to the heavenly body with which the believer longs to be clothed, is the precise term used for the heavenly bodies from which the fallen angels had disrobed.

The attempt to apply the term "Sons of Elohim" in a broader sense has no textual basis and obscures the precision of its denotative usage. This proves to be an assumption which is antagonistic to the uniform Biblical usage of the term.

2. The daughters of Cain

The "Daughters of Adam" also does not denote a restriction to the descendants of Cain, but rather the whole human race is clearly intended. These daughters were the daughters born to the men with which this very sentence opens:

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Genesis 6:1,

It is clear from the text that these daughters were not limited a particular family or subset, but were, indeed, from (all) the Benoth Adam, "the daughters of Adam." There is no apparent exclusion of the daughters of Seth. Or were they so without charms in contrast with the daughters of Cain? All of Adam's female descendants seem to have been involved. (And what about the "sons of Adam?" Where do they, using this contrived dichotomy, fit in?)

Furthermore, the line of Cain was not necessarily known for its ungodliness. From a study of the naming of Cain's children, many of which included the name of God,
it is not clear that they were all necessarily unfaithful.
 
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nephilimiyr

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3. The inferred lines of separation

The concept of separate "lines" itself is suspect and contrary to Scripture. National and racial distinctions were plainly the result of the subsequent intervention of God in Genesis 11, five chapters later. There is no intimation that the lines of Seth and Cain kept themselves separate nor were even instructed to. The injunction to remain separate was given much later. Genesis 6:12 confirms that all flesh had corrupted His way upon the earth.

4. The inferred Godliness of Seth

There is no evidence, stated or implied, that the line of Seth was godly. Only one person was translated from the judgment to come (Enoch) and only eight were given the protection of the ark. No one beyond Noah's immediate family was accounted worthy to be saved. In fact, the text implies that these were distinct from all others. (There is no evidence that the wives of Noah's sons were from the line of Seth.) Even so, Gaebelein observes, "The designation 'Sons of God' is never applied in the Old Testament to believers," whose sonship is "distinctly a New Testament revelation."

The "Sons of Elohim" saw the daughters of men that they were fair and took them wives of all that they chose. It appears that the women had little say in the matter. The domineering implication hardly suggests a godly approach to the union. Even the mention that they saw that they were attractive seems out of place if only normal biology was involved. (And were the daughters of Seth so unattractive?)

It should also be pointed out that the son of Seth himself was Enosh, and there is textual evidence that, rather than a reputation for piety, he seems to have initiated the profaning of the name of God.

If the lines of Seth were so faithful, why did they perish in the flood?

5. The unnatural Offspring

The most fatal flaw in the specious "Sethite" view is the emergence of the Nephilim as a result of the unions. (Bending the translation to "giants" does not resolve the difficulties.) It is the offspring of these peculiar unions in Genesis 6:4 which seems to be cited as a primary cause for the Flood.

Procreation by parents of differing religious views do not produce unnatural offspring. Believers marrying unbelievers may produce "monsters," but hardly superhuman, or unnatural, children! It was this unnatural procreation and the resulting abnormal creatures that were designated as a principal reason for the judgment of the Flood.

The very absence of any such adulteration of the human genealogy in Noah's case is also documented in Genesis 6:9: Noah's family tree was distinctively unblemished. The term used, tamiym, is used for physical blemishes.

Why were the offspring uniquely designated "mighty" and "men of reknown?" This description characterizing the children is not accounted for if the fathers were merely men, even if godly.

A further difficulty seems to be that the offspring were only men; no "women of reknown" are mentioned. (Was there a chromosome deficiency among the Sethites? Were there only "Y" chromosomes available in this line?)

6. New Testament confirmations

"In the mouths of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."In Biblical matters, it is essential to always compare Scripture with Scripture. The New Testament confirmations in Jude and 2 Peter are impossible to ignore.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

Peter's comments even establishes the time of the fall of these angels to the days of the Flood of Noah.

Even Peter's vocabulary is provocative. Peter uses the term Tartarus, here translated "hell." This is the only place that this Greek term appears in the Bible. Tartarus is a Greek term for "dark abode of woe"; "the pit of darkness in the unseen world." As used in Homer's Iliad, it is "...as far beneath hades as the earth is below heaven`." In Greek mythology, some of the demigods, Chronos and the rebel Titans, were said to have rebelled against their father, Uranus, and after a prolonged contest they were defeated by Zeus and were condemned into Tartarus.

The Epistle of Jude also alludes to the strange episodes when these "alien" creatures intruded themselves into the human reproductive process:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6,7

The allusions to "going after strange flesh," keeping "not their first estate," having "left their own habitation," and "giving themselves over to fornication," seem to clearly fit the alien intrusions of Genesis 6. (The term for habitation, oivkhth,rion, refers to their heavenly bodies from which they had disrobed.)

These allusions from the New Testament would seem to be fatal to the "Sethite" alternative in interpreting Genesis 6. If the intercourse between the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" were merely marriage between Sethites and Cainites, it seems impossible to explain these passages, and the reason why some fallen angels are imprisoned and others are free to roam the heavenlies.


Cont...
 
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nephilimiyr

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7. Post-flood implications

The strange offspring also continued after the flood: "There were Nephilim in the earth in those days, and also after that..."
The "Sethite" view fails to meaningfully address the prevailing conditions "also after that." It offers no insight into the presence of the subsequent "giants" in the land of Canaan.

One of the disturbing aspects of the Old Testament record was God's instructions, upon entering the land of Canaan, to wipe out every man, woman, and child of certain tribes inhabiting the land. This is difficult to justify without the insight of a "gene pool problem" from the remaining Nephilim, Rephaim, et al., which seems to illuminate the difficulty.

8. Prophetic implications

Another reason that an understanding of Genesis 6 is so essential is that it also is a prerequisite to understanding (and anticipating) Satan's devices
and, in particular, the specific delusions to come upon the whole earth as a major feature of end-time prophecy.


IN SUMMARY

If one takes an integrated view of the Scripture, then everything in it should "tie together." It is the author's view that the "Angel View," however disturbing, is the clear, direct presentation of the Biblical text, corroborated by multiple New Testament references and was so understood by both early Jewish and Christian scholarship; the "Sethite View" is a contrivance of convenience from a network of unjustified assumptions antagonistic to the remainder of the Biblical record.

It should also be pointed out that most conservative Bible scholars accept the "angel" view.
Among those supporting the "angel" view are: G. H. Pember, M. R. DeHaan, C. H. McIntosh, F. Delitzsch, A. C. Gaebelein, A. W. Pink, Donald Grey Barnhouse, Henry Morris, Merril F. Unger, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Hal Lindsey, and Chuck Smith, being among the best known.

For those who take the Bible seriously, the arguments supporting the "Angel View" appear compelling. For those who indulge in a willingness to take liberties with the straightforward presentation of the text, no defense can prove final. (And greater dangers than the implications attending these issues await them!)

For further reading of this topic, see the following:

George Hawkins Pember, Earth's Earliest Ages, first published by Hodder and Stoughton in 1875, and presently available by Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids MI, 1975.
John Fleming, The Fallen Angels and the Heroes of Mythology, Hodges, Foster, and Figgis, Dublin, 1879.
Henry Morris, The Genesis Record, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids MI, 1976.
Merrill F. Unger, Biblical Demonology, Scripture Press, Chicago IL, 1952.
Clarence Larkin, Spirit World, Rev. Clarence Larkin Estate, Philadelphia PA, 1921.
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Ebed-Yahweh

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Thanks extended to visionary and nephilimiyr for their input. (Out of curiosity nephilimiyr, what does the "iyr" part of your name mean?

So, why is this information important? It's very possible (I would say extremely likely if not absolutely for certain) that angels will once again procreate with human women in the end days. Most commentators assume that Yahshua’s prophecy merely implies that the level of evil in the world will be the same as that during Noah's time. However, if one carefully reads Genesis chapter 6, it becomes quite clear that a cause and effect relationship exists between the Nephilim and the widespread iniquity of the pre-flood era.
KJV Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

KJV Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

I’m not certain that Daniel prophesies of the mating of angels and humans in this verse concerning the “fourth kingdom“, but it is a possible interpretation.

KJV Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Perhaps the whole sci-fi/comic book idea of super beings and mutants is meant to prepare us for the eventual emergence of angelic/human hybrids who will one day be living amongst us.
 
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Ebed-Yahweh

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A collection of Old Testament verses related to the Nephilim and their descendants.

Genesis 6:1-7
Genesis 14:1-11
Genesis 15:18-21
Numbers 13:22
Numbers 13:28-33
Numbers 21:21-24, 33-35
Deuteronomy 1:27-30
Deuteronomy 2:10-12, 19-23, 30-35
Deuteronomy 3:1-13
Deuteronomy 31:3-5
Deuteronomy 9:1-4
Joshua 11:15-23
Joshua 13:10-12
Joshua 15:8
Joshua 15:13-14
Joshua 17:15-18
Joshua 18:16
Judges 1:20
1 Samuel 17:4-7
1 Samuel 21:9
1 Samuel 22:9-10
2 Samuel 5:22
2 Samuel 21:15-22
2 Samuel 23:13
1 Chronicles 11:15
1 Chronicles 14:9
1 Chronicles 20:4-8
Job 16:14
Amos 2:9

As you study these verses, you may notice the Rephaim mentioned occasionally. This is the Hebrew word which is usually translated as giant in the King James Version.

Deuteronomy 2:10-11
10. The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims;
11. Which also were accounted giants [Rephaim], as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.

Here is the definition from the Strong's Concordance:

7497 rephaim, n.pr.g. Rephaite, “mighty”; Rephaim, “sunken, powerless ones [giants ; [poss.] shades, ghosts of the dead ones [giants]”:- giants [10], giant [7], Rephaim [6], Rephaims [2]

The Rephaim are giants, ghosts. Spirits of dead giants (half-angel, half-human hybrids) became what we know today as demons or evil, unclean spirits. The modern Hebrew dictionary I possess actually gives "ghosts" as one of the defintions.

Job 26:5-6
5 Dead things [Rephaim] are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead [Rephaim] arise and praise thee? Selah.

Proverbs 2:18 For her house nclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead [Rephaim]

Proverbs 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead [Rephaim] are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Proverbs 21:16 The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead [Rephaim]

Isaiah 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead [Rephaim] for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isaiah 26:13-14
13. O Lord our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.
14. They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased [Rephaim], they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

Notice that Isaiah

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead [Rephaim].

There is not a single Biblical verse that teaches demons and fallen angels are synonymous. Demons are the spirits of the Rephaim/giants and other such angelic half-breeds whose evil spirits roam the earth. Fallen angels/Nephilim are able to mainfest themselves in human or some kind of physical form (many of them may be shapechangers) and have no need to possess humans as demons do. We know that Satan can assume different forms.

11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Also, Satan is the only fallen angel ever mentioned in the Bible who possessed a human when he "entered Judas". Even then, it may not have been Satan who personally possessed Judas Iscariot, but simply one of his demonic minions.

There is an occasion recorded in the Old Testament which is interesting.

.
KJV 1 Kings 22:19-23
22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LOR [YHWH]: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 22:20 And the LORD [YHWH] said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead * And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD [YHWH], and said, I will persuade him.
22:22 And the LORD [YHWH] said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD [YHWH] hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD [YHWH] hath spoken evil concerning thee.

This may be an example of possession. However, the being is described as a spirit and not a fallen angel nor an Angel of the LORD [Yahweh].

Some like to point to the following verse in order to persuade us that angels cannot assume physical forms.

Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

However, contrary to popular belief, the appearance of the word angels in the Bible does not automatically signify a supernatural being. Angel (from angelos, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance #32) is the Greek word for messenger. Malakh (Strong's #'s 4397 and 4398) is the Hebrew/Aramaic word translated as angel which also simply means messenger. Both words may be used to describe humans as well as supernatural/extra-dimensional beings.

So, Psalm 104:4 may just as easily be speaking of humans as it may members of the heavenly host. After all, we do have spirits, and true Christians are baptized by the Holy Spirit which the baptism of fire.
 
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gheetam

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Thanks everyone for such a detailed explaination. Those verses and references were very helpful. I guess to me angels "taking a form of man" is difficult to accept but I forgot that angels did eat as humans - so I guess the rationale is is they can eat - they probably can have sex too, right? And if this thoery is true, can the evil spirits (fallen angels) do that now? Why dont we hear anything about giants or perhaps the effects of having a union with an angel is different now? Or maybe God has a put on such a thing?

And correct me if I wrong as I assuming that "taking the form of man" is different from being "possessed' - right?
 
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Ebed-Yahweh

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gheetam said:
I guess to me angels "taking a form of man" is difficult to accept but I forgot that angels did eat as humans - so I guess the rationale is is they can eat - they probably can have sex too, right?

At the very least it shows that angels can manifest themselves physically.


gheetam said:
And if this thoery is true, can the evil spirits (fallen angels) do that now? Why dont we hear anything about giants or perhaps the effects of having a union with an angel is different now? Or maybe God has a put on such a thing?

Perhaps the stories about alien abductions and the development of alien/human hybrids is a modern spin on "the sons of God taking "wives of all whom they chose" (KJV Genesis 6:2).

There is also an interesting passage from Geoffrey of Monmouth's The History of the King's of Britain (completed in 1136):

The King was amazed by what he heard. He ordered a certain Maugantius to be summoned to him, so that this man could tell him whether or not what the woman said was possible. Maugantius was brought in and listened to the whole story, point by point. 'In the books written by our sages,' he said to Vortigern, 'and many historical narratives, I have discovered that quite a number of men have been born in this way. As Apuleius asserts in the De deo Socratis, between the moon and the earth live spirits which we call incubus demons. These have partly the nature of men and partly that of angels, and when they wish they assume mortal shapes and have intercourse with women. It is possible that one of these appeared to the woman and begot the lad in her.' (Concerning the birth of Merlin, from Part Four, The House of Constantine, translated by Lewis Thorpe. Penguin Books. London, England. 1966.)

Of course, most people would assign tales such as these to the realm of myth and legend, just as they do the stories about alien/fallen angel encounters today.

gheetam said:
And correct me if I wrong as I assuming that "taking the form of man" is different from being "possessed' - right?

Yes, I believe that an angel taking the form of a man is different than an evil spirit taking possession of one.

An early Christian named Origen believed that angels have free wil and could fall at any time. Such a belief was later declared heresy by the Roman Catholics. Some believe that the truth angels can take human form and procreate with mankind has long been hidden or discounted because the fallen angels living amongst us who have infiltrated our governments and religious organizations desire to conceal their presence. It sounds like science fiction I know, but it is not uncommon for what was once considered fantasy to become reality these days.
 
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Ebed-Yahweh

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Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book I, Chapter 3:1
1. NOW this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations; but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their forefathers; and did neither pay those honors to God which were appointed them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shown for virtue, they now showed by their actions a double degree of wickedness, whereby they made God to be their enemy. For many angels (11) of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did; and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions and their acts for the better: but seeing they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married; so he departed out of that land.


The Apocrypha

KJV Judith 16:7 For the mighty one did not fall by the young men, neither did the sons of the Titans smite him, nor high giants set upon him: but Judith the daughter of Merari weakened him with the beauty of her countenance.

KJV Wisdom of Solomon 14:6 For in the old time also, when the proud giants perished, the hope of the world governed by thy hand escaped in a weak vessel, and left to all ages a seed of generation.

KJV Ecclesiasticus (The Wisdom of Joshua/Jesus Ben-Sirach) 16:6-8
6 In the congregation of the ungodly shall a fire be kindled; and in a rebellious nation wrath is set on fire.
7 He was not pacified toward the old giants, who fell away in the strength of their foolishness.
8 Neither spared he the place where Lot sojourned, but abhorred them for their pride.

KJV Baruch 3:26-28
26 There were the giants famous from the beginning, that were of so great stature, and so expert in war.
27 Those did not the Lord choose, neither gave he the way of knowledge unto them:
28 But they were destroyed, because they had no wisdom, and perished through their own foolishness.

See http://www.nazarene.net/enoch/4Q203.shtml to read fragments of he Book of Giants from the Dead Sea Scrolls.
 
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Ebed-Yahweh

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KJV Genesis 5:18-24
18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.


The Book of Enoch (Chapters 7-9)
Translated from Ethiopic by Richard Laurence, London, 1883.
Can be found online at http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/enoch.html
For slightly different translation by R.H. Charles, please see http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm

Chapter 7
1It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.
2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
(3) An Aramaic text reads "Watchers" here (J.T. Milik, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4 [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1976], p. 167).
3Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;
4And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.
5But they answered him and said; We all swear;
6And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.
7Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, (4) which is the top of mount Armon.
(4) Upon Ardis. Or, "in the days of Jared" (R.H. Charles, ed. and trans., The Book of Enoch [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1893], p. 63).
8That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, (5) and bound themselves by mutual execrations.
(5) Mt. Armon, or Mt. Hermon, derives its name from the Hebrew word herem, a curse (Charles, p. 63).
9These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them. (6)
(6) The Aramaic texts preserve an earlier list of names of these Watchers: Semihazah; Artqoph; Ramtel; Kokabel; Ramel; Danieal; Zeqiel; Baraqel; Asael; Hermoni; Matarel; Ananel; Stawel; Samsiel; Sahriel; Tummiel; Turiel; Yomiel; Yhaddiel (Milik, p. 151).
10Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.
11And the women conceiving brought forth giants, (7)
(7) The Greek texts vary considerably from the Ethiopic text here. One Greek manuscript adds to this section, "And they [the women] bore to them [the Watchers] three races.first, the great giants. The giants brought forth [some say "slew"] the Naphelim, and the Naphelim brought forth [or "slew"] the Elioud. And they existed, increasing in power according to their greatness." See the account in the Book of Jubilees.
12Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
13When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
14And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, (8) and to drink their blood.
(8) Their flesh one after another. Or, "one another.s flesh." R.H. Charles notes that this phrase may refer to the destruction of one class of giants by another (Charles, p. 65).
15Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

Chapter 8
1Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.
2Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.
3Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots:
4Armers taught the solution of sorcery;
5Barkayal taught the observers of the stars, (9)
(9) Observers of the stars. Astrologers (Charles, p. 67).
6Akibeel taught signs;
7Tamiel taught astronomy;
8And Asaradel taught the motion of the moon,
9And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.

Please read go to the website I provided the link to above and read chapters 9-16 as well.

The text of the Book of Enoch was considered lost, except for passages quoted by ancient writers such as Clement and George Syncellus, until 1773 when James Bruce brought forth two copies of a version he had obtained in Ethiopia. The Book of Enoch forms part of the official canon of the Ethiopic Church. Since Bruce's discovery, an Old Slavonic translation has been identified, as well as two separate fragments of a Latin translation. Fragments of papyri containing parts of a Greek translation were recovered by a French archeological team at Akhmim, and published five years later in 1892. Fragments from the Book of Enoch have also been identified in the Dead Sea scrolls.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

Watchers are mentioned in the Bible, in the Book of Daniel:

KJV Daniel 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher ['ir] and an holy one [qaddish] came down from heaven;

KJV Daniel 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers ['ir], and the demand by the word of the holy ones [qaddish]: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

KJV Daniel 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcher ['ir]and an holy one [qaddish] coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;

5894 'ir (Aramaic) - messenger (of God), watcher, one who is a sentinel to guard and protect
6922 qaddish (Aramaic) - holy, ceremonial or moral purity; (as noun) holy one, saint, which can refer to human beings or angels (from Strong's Concordance)

Azazel is also mentioned in the Leviticus chapter 16, but the Hebrew is translated as “scapegoat”.

KJV Leviticus 16:7-10, 26
7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat [’azazel].
9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat [’azazel], shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat [’azazel] into the wilderness.
26 And he that let go the goat for the scapegoat [‘azazel] shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward come into the camp.

5799 ‘azazel, m.[m. or pr.]. scapegoat, a goat sent into the wilderness on the Day of Atonement, symbolically carrying away the sin of the community; some see this word as the name of the desert spirit (Azazel) to whom the goat is sent:- scapegoat [4] (from Strong's Concordance)
 
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Ebed-Yahweh

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The Book of Jubilees
Chapter 7:21-27
21 For owing to these three things came the flood upon the earth, namely, owing to the fornication wherein the Watchers against the law of their ordinances went a whoring after the daughters of men, and took themselves wives of all which they chose: and they made the beginning of uncleanness.
22 And they begat sons the Naphidim [probably a typo and should be read Naphilim], and they were all unlike, and they devoured one another: and the Giants slew the Naphil, and the Naphil slew the Eljo, and the Eljo mankind, and one man another.
23 And every one sold himself to work iniquity and to shed much blood, and the earth was filled with iniquity.
24 And after this they sinned against the beasts and birds, and all that moves and walks on the earth: and much blood was shed on the earth, and every imagination and desire of men imagined vanity and evil continually.
25 And the Lord destroyed everything from off the face of the earth; because of the wickedness of their deeds, and because of the blood which they had shed in the midst of the earth He destroyed everything.
26 'And we were left, I and you, my sons, and everything that entered with us into the ark, and behold I see your works before me that ye do not walk in righteousness: for in the path of destruction ye have begun to walk, and ye are parting one from another, and are envious one of another, and (so it comes) that ye are not in harmony, my sons, each with his brother.
27 For I see, and behold the demons have begun (their) seductions against you and against your children and now I fear on your behalf, that after my death ye will shed the blood of men upon the earth, and that ye, too, will be destroyed from the face of the earth.

Other verses and passages of interest 4:15-24, 5:1-4, 8:1-3, 10:1-11, 20:5, 29:9-11.

You can find the Book of Jubilees at http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/jubilee/ among other websites which you could easily find using your favorite search engine.


The Testament of Reuben
5:5 Flee, therefore, fornication, my children, and command your wives and your daughters, that they adorn not their heads and faces to deceive the mind: because every woman who useth these wiles hath been reserved for eternal punishment.
6 For thus they allured the Watchers who were before the flood; for as these continually beheld them, they lusted after them, and they conceived the act in their mind; for they changed themselves into the shape of men, and appeared to them when they were with their husbands.
7 And the women lusting in their minds after their forms, gave birth to giants, for the Watchers appeared to them as reaching even unto heaven.


The Testament of Judah
3:2 And the other, the king of Tappuah, as he sat upon his horse, I slew, and so I scattered all his people.
3 Achor the king a man of giant stature I found, hurling javelins before and behind as he sat on horseback, and I took up a stone of sixty pounds weight, and hurled it and smote his horse, and killed it.
4 And I fought with (this) other for two hours; and I clave his shield in twain, and I chopped off his feet, and killed him.
5 And as I was stripping off his breastplate, behold nine men his companions began to fight with me.
6 And I wound my garment on my hand; and I slung stones at them, and killed four of them, and the rest fled.
7 And Jacob my father slew Beelesath, king of all the kings, a giant in strength, twelve cubits high.
8 And fear fell upon them, and they ceased warring against us.


.
 
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