Something's gotta give

[Gnarwhal]

I've brought up this friend a couple of times, he's one of my closest friends. Perhaps my best friend, and we've known each other about 15 years now. I introduced him to his wife, he stuck by me after my divorce when other friends didn't. He's a good dude and I love him.

It's because I love him that I feel like I need to say something to him about his economic situation. He's almost entering his late 40s, married with two young kids. His problem is he doesn't pursue a proper job. As long as I've known him he's used an old back injury as an excuse for why he can neither sit too long at a desk or be on his feet too long in a more physical job.

Other than trying on a few occasions to make some suggestions for jobs which I haven't done in maybe 10 years, I've kept my mouth shut which is essentially what most people advise me to do. But because of how he was raised and also because he spent his 20s working for YWAM which is a ministry that requires you raise your financial support through donors, he has a habit of hitting people up for money. A few months back he came to me with a need, it was something like $500 for something. I was in no position to give him even half of that but I was considering giving him maybe $100 when someone else stepped in and they ended up getting double what they needed (they squandered the difference by the way).

Yesterday my mom showed me a post on he made on Facebook on his church's page outlining some costly car issues they're having with both of their cars. He never gave a number for the cost of the repairs but I know that the nature of some of the issues (such as a clutch failure) means the total cost is in the thousands. He made disguised the post as a prayer request, but I know from all my years in evangelicalism that public prayer requests are never actually prayer requests. They're either an excuse to gossip or they're thinly veiled requests for money or property or some other kind of help. That's not inherently a bad thing, but that's the language of the subculture.

I was really upset with that post and think that someone needs to say something to him but nobody ever does, including his parents—because they essentially follow the same lifestyle. If he was working his butt off and still couldn't make ends meet I could see more justification in his asking for help, but instead he has his wife work her butt off and he works a menial low-effort job a few hours a week "taking care" of disabled individuals (which really means he sits with them for a few hours and watches a movie or a ballgame - I know because he boasts about it).

Meanwhile here I am working two jobs not just to support my family but so my wife doesn't have to work and she can raise the kids, as God and nature intend. I feel like I need to step up and say something because nobody else would but A) I still don't know if I should, and B) I don't know how to say it in a way that best preserves our friendship.

Should I just keep butting out?

 

[WarriorAngel]

I've brought up this friend a couple of times, he's one of my closest friends. Perhaps my best friend, and we've known each other about 15 years now. I introduced him to his wife, he stuck by me after my divorce when other friends didn't. He's a good dude and I love him.

It's because I love him that I feel like I need to say something to him about his economic situation. He's almost entering his late 40s, married with two young kids. His problem is he doesn't pursue a proper job. As long as I've known him he's used an old back injury as an excuse for why he can neither sit too long at a desk or be on his feet too long in a more physical job.

Other than trying on a few occasions to make some suggestions for jobs which I haven't done in maybe 10 years, I've kept my mouth shut which is essentially what most people advise me to do. But because of how he was raised and also because he spent his 20s working for YWAM which is a ministry that requires you raise your financial support through donors, he has a habit of hitting people up for money. A few months back he came to me with a need, it was something like $500 for something. I was in no position to give him even half of that but I was considering giving him maybe $100 when someone else stepped in and they ended up getting double what they needed (they squandered the difference by the way).

Yesterday my mom showed me a post on he made on Facebook on his church's page outlining some costly car issues they're having with both of their cars. He never gave a number for the cost of the repairs but I know that the nature of some of the issues (such as a clutch failure) means the total cost is in the thousands. He made disguised the post as a prayer request, but I know from all my years in evangelicalism that public prayer requests are never actually prayer requests. They're either an excuse to gossip or they're thinly veiled requests for money or property or some other kind of help. That's not inherently a bad thing, but that's the language of the subculture.

I was really upset with that post and think that someone needs to say something to him but nobody ever does, including his parents—because they essentially follow the same lifestyle. If he was working his butt off and still couldn't make ends meet I could see more justification in his asking for help, but instead he has his wife work her butt off and he works a menial low-effort job a few hours a week "taking care" of disabled individuals (which really means he sits with them for a few hours and watches a movie or a ballgame - I know because he boasts about it).

Meanwhile here I am working two jobs not just to support my family but so my wife doesn't have to work and she can raise the kids, as God and nature intend. I feel like I need to step up and say something because nobody else would but A) I still don't know if I should, and B) I don't know how to say it in a way that best preserves our friendship.

Should I just keep butting out?

I totally get his problems.
But my issue was a store essentially taking every extra dime I made and working 65 hours a week with nothing to show and the sales going down on the regular....
I finally decided to get rid of the store because basically it's cost me way too much.
AND I prayed and prayed and prayed some more because it wasn't about me, it was being a nonprofit for others...

I am working on improving my lot in life. My son discussed I work and save to try again elsewhere or whatever happens in between if the Lord wants me to do this...


BUT fwiw, his pride is hurting already.
I don't know about him but when people helped me, I cried a LOT because I felt so useless for even asking or begging.
I even waited til I was almost homeless and having a near tax foreclosure on my home...

I don't know how bad he is. I am no better. BUT I also hurt my back, however; our pain may be different even if I do struggle. BACK pain is bad to move, sleep or do things you once could.

 

[Michie]

I've brought up this friend a couple of times, he's one of my closest friends. Perhaps my best friend, and we've known each other about 15 years now. I introduced him to his wife, he stuck by me after my divorce when other friends didn't. He's a good dude and I love him.

It's because I love him that I feel like I need to say something to him about his economic situation. He's almost entering his late 40s, married with two young kids. His problem is he doesn't pursue a proper job. As long as I've known him he's used an old back injury as an excuse for why he can neither sit too long at a desk or be on his feet too long in a more physical job.

Other than trying on a few occasions to make some suggestions for jobs which I haven't done in maybe 10 years, I've kept my mouth shut which is essentially what most people advise me to do. But because of how he was raised and also because he spent his 20s working for YWAM which is a ministry that requires you raise your financial support through donors, he has a habit of hitting people up for money. A few months back he came to me with a need, it was something like $500 for something. I was in no position to give him even half of that but I was considering giving him maybe $100 when someone else stepped in and they ended up getting double what they needed (they squandered the difference by the way).

Yesterday my mom showed me a post on he made on Facebook on his church's page outlining some costly car issues they're having with both of their cars. He never gave a number for the cost of the repairs but I know that the nature of some of the issues (such as a clutch failure) means the total cost is in the thousands. He made disguised the post as a prayer request, but I know from all my years in evangelicalism that public prayer requests are never actually prayer requests. They're either an excuse to gossip or they're thinly veiled requests for money or property or some other kind of help. That's not inherently a bad thing, but that's the language of the subculture.

I was really upset with that post and think that someone needs to say something to him but nobody ever does, including his parents—because they essentially follow the same lifestyle. If he was working his butt off and still couldn't make ends meet I could see more justification in his asking for help, but instead he has his wife work her butt off and he works a menial low-effort job a few hours a week "taking care" of disabled individuals (which really means he sits with them for a few hours and watches a movie or a ballgame - I know because he boasts about it).

Meanwhile here I am working two jobs not just to support my family but so my wife doesn't have to work and she can raise the kids, as God and nature intend. I feel like I need to step up and say something because nobody else would but A) I still don't know if I should, and B) I don't know how to say it in a way that best preserves our friendship.

Should I just keep butting out?

I’d stay quiet unless he hits you up again. I remember him asking you for money when your son was almost born. That’s inexcusable. Surely he knows your situation? If he asks you again, simply say that you cannot afford it and he needs to explore his options as far as making his bills. It’s a situation sort of like your stepson. Mollycoddling is not doing him any favors. Maybe he should explore disability, etc. I know you love him but you can’t take responsibility for his lack of ambition either.

 

[Michie]

I totally get his problems.
But my issue was a store essentially taking every extra dime I made and working 65 hours a week with nothing to show and the sales going down on the regular....
I finally decided to get rid of the store because basically it's cost me way too much.
AND I prayed and prayed and prayed some more because it wasn't about me, it was being a nonprofit for others...

I am working on improving my lot in life. My son discussed I work and save to try again elsewhere or whatever happens in between if the Lord wants me to do this...


BUT fwiw, his pride is hurting already.
I don't know about him but when people helped me, I cried a LOT because I felt so useless for even asking or begging.
I even waited til I was almost homeless and having a near tax foreclosure on my home...

I don't know how bad he is. I am no better. BUT I also hurt my back, however; our pain may be different even if I do struggle. BACK pain is bad to move, sleep or do things you once could.

I think the difference between you and spicoli’s friend WA is that you busted your tail to make things work. That does not seem to be the case with spicoli’s friend. Spicoli is working his tail off to make things work as well. It does not sound like that is the case with the friend. I could be wrong but that’s just my take.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I totally get his problems.
But my issue was a store essentially taking every extra dime I made and working 65 hours a week with nothing to show and the sales going down on the regular....
I finally decided to get rid of the store because basically it's cost me way too much.
AND I prayed and prayed and prayed some more because it wasn't about me, it was being a nonprofit for others...

I am working on improving my lot in life. My son discussed I work and save to try again elsewhere or whatever happens in between if the Lord wants me to do this...


BUT fwiw, his pride is hurting already.
I don't know about him but when people helped me, I cried a LOT because I felt so useless for even asking or begging.
I even waited til I was almost homeless and having a near tax foreclosure on my home...

I don't know how bad he is. I am no better. BUT I also hurt my back, however; our pain may be different even if I do struggle. BACK pain is bad to move, sleep or do things you once could.

See I value your situation because you worked and you worked hard, it just didn't work out. But the point is you made every effort to make it work.

In my friend's case he hasn't worked a real job in 30 years since he was in high school. He worked for a grocery store back then and that's where he hurt his back. Ever since then he's been very picky about jobs and used his injury as an excuse, even though I've never actually seen or heard him express an issue with his back since we've known each other. His ailments tend to be elsewhere.

But for six years he worked for YWAM everything he needed was given to him, either directly or through donated money that was his "income" so I think he's really mixed up in his concept of income and what it means to actually earn it. I met him the year he left YWAM and literally from day one I recognized that he had a very normalized expectation that he could subsist off of other people's charity. Like it was a foregone conclusion to him that he would get by just from other people giving him money, almost like a homeless person.

Plus I just personally take issue with him letting his poor wife work herself to the bone while he makes a pittance doing a job meant for high schoolers or single young adults. Not middle aged men with families to support. Unless his wife has genuinely agreed to that arrangement, and I don't think she has, the roles should be reversed.

Nevertheless, your point is noted. Just because he doesn't seem embarrassed doesn't mean he actually isbn't.

I’d stay quiet unless he hits you up again. I remember him asking you for money when your son was almost born. That’s inexcusable. Surely he knows your situation? If he asks you again, simply say that you cannot afford it and he needs to explore his options as far as making his bills. It’s a situation sort of like your stepson. Mollycoddling is not doing him any favors. Maybe he should explore disability, etc. I know you love him but you can’t take responsibility for his lack of ambition either.

Alright I'll keep my mouth shut unless he says something. I think he's refrained from asking me for money this time around because he knows I'm working two jobs totaling 62 hours/week to support my family, I don't have money just lying around to spend or give frivolously.

That's an astute observation you're making though, the similarities between him and my step son. I hadn't thought of that but it's true. My friend, unfortunately, is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I think it's almost funny that I've talked with him about my step son before and my friend has a tough-love no-excuses attitude about my step son and yet doesn't see how he's essentially contradicting himself lol.

I agree, I won't take responsibility. That's why if he approaches me again I'm going to talk to him and explain it's not right what he's doing.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Well, I am so grateful for folks who helped me.
Like grateful grateful.

So I know It's just so wrong to keep asking so I had to change something.
And now I am hoping my stuff sells out and it should....

 

[WarriorAngel]

See I value your situation because you worked and you worked hard, it just didn't work out. But the point is you made every effort to make it work.

In my friend's case he hasn't worked a real job in 30 years since he was in high school. He worked for a grocery store back then and that's where he hurt his back. Ever since then he's been very picky about jobs and used his injury as an excuse, even though I've never actually seen or heard him express an issue with his back since we've known each other. His ailments tend to be elsewhere.

But for six years he worked for YWAM everything he needed was given to him, either directly or through donated money that was his "income" so I think he's really mixed up in his concept of income and what it means to actually earn it. I met him the year he left YWAM and literally from day one I recognized that he had a very normalized expectation that he could subsist off of other people's charity. Like it was a foregone conclusion to him that he would get by just from other people giving him money, almost like a homeless person.

Plus I just personally take issue with him letting his poor wife work herself to the bone while he makes a pittance doing a job meant for high schoolers or single young adults. Not middle aged men with families to support. Unless his wife has genuinely agreed to that arrangement, and I don't think she has, the roles should be reversed.

Nevertheless, your point is noted. Just because he doesn't seem embarrassed doesn't mean he actually isbn't.



Alright I'll keep my mouth shut unless he says something. I think he's refrained from asking me for money this time around because he knows I'm working two jobs totaling 62 hours/week to support my family, I don't have money just lying around to spend or give frivolously.

That's an astute observation you're making though, the similarities between him and my step son. I hadn't thought of that but it's true. My friend, unfortunately, is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I think it's almost funny that I've talked with him about my step son before and my friend has a tough-love no-excuses attitude about my step son and yet doesn't see how he's essentially contradicting himself lol.

I agree, I won't take responsibility. That's why if he approaches me again I'm going to talk to him and explain it's not right what he's doing.

I don't know his level of pain.
My bro had to quit working and unfortunately he gets only $700 + a month now on SSI whereas he used to make $50,000 a year. So he's not a happy camper.
An old football [HS] injury. His knees gave way and he has a lots of meds and uses a wheelchair now.

He lost the roof on one side of his home and had threats to fix it or lose the house. So he did find a nonprofit charity who helped him. Thanks be to God.

 

[mourningdove~]

Should I just keep butting out?

I think so.

I doubt that anything you could say would influence your friend 'to change'.
He may need to have some things about his situation revealed to him by God.

I would continue to pray for him ...

 

[Michie]

I think so.

I doubt that anything you could say would influence your friend 'to change'.
He may need to have some things about his situation revealed to him by God.

I would continue to pray for him ...

Especially at his age!

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I have degenerative disc disease in my lumbar spine. It is no joke. It never stopped me from working hard jobs, but sometimes I'd be in tears when I got home and I would be unable to walk straight. I'd just pop a bunch of pills to get through it. That wasn't healthy. I don't work anymore with my mental illness. Being only 33 years old, the state of my back shocked me a couple days ago. My fiance and I went on a 40 minute walk in the woods with the dog. When we got home I couldn't get out of the car. When she helped me out of the car I couldn't stand straight. Later that night I couldn't stand without support to even go to the bathroom. I couldn't roll over in bed. Nothing. Nada. Today I had a doctor's appointment because it is so bad. NEVER judge a bad back. You have absolutely no idea what a bad back means to someone. It's one of the worst physical ailments a person can have that is not life threatening.

Secondly, many years ago on here I was going through a hard time. Our car took a crap on us and I vented my frustration on here. I've always come to OBOB in my darkest times. So this was nothing new. The people of OBOB offered up money to fix our car. I didn't expect it, I didn't ask for it, and it wasn't on my mind at all. I had to tell people to stop sending me money because so much poured in. Like I literally had to make a thread demanding people to please stop.

I'm just saying you really don't know man.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I think so.

I doubt that anything you could say would influence your friend 'to change'.
He may need to have some things about his situation revealed to him by God.

I would continue to pray for him ...

Especially at his age!

Lol I think you guys are right.

I have degenerative disc disease in my lumbar spine. It is no joke. It never stopped me from working hard jobs, but sometimes I'd be in tears when I got home and I would be unable to walk straight. I'd just pop a bunch of pills to get through it. That wasn't healthy. I don't work anymore with my mental illness. Being only 33 years old, the state of my back shocked me a couple days ago. My fiance and I went on a 40 minute walk in the woods with the dog. When we got home I couldn't get out of the car. When she helped me out of the car I couldn't stand straight. Later that night I couldn't stand without support to even go to the bathroom. I couldn't roll over in bed. Nothing. Nada. Today I had a doctor's appointment because it is so bad. NEVER judge a bad back. You have absolutely no idea what a bad back means to someone. It's one of the worst physical ailments a person can have that is not life threatening.

Secondly, many years ago on here I was going through a hard time. Our car took a crap on us and I vented my frustration on here. I've always come to OBOB in my darkest times. So this was nothing new. The people of OBOB offered up money to fix our car. I didn't expect it, I didn't ask for it, and it wasn't on my mind at all. I had to tell people to stop sending me money because so much poured in. Like I literally had to make a thread demanding people to please stop.

I'm just saying you really don't know man.

I actually have a bad back as well, I injured it when I was 18 working my first job out of high school. I never knew whether I actually injured it on the job or not, I just knew one morning I woke up and I couldn't even sit up in bed, let alone get out of it. I had to call out that day. The issue resurfaces easily with the slightest tweak and then I walk around like a hobbled 90-year-old man for a week.

My dad had an even worse back injury in 1991, he slipped on some wet steps exiting a school building and his lower lumbar region came down on the corner of the step. I was only four so I can't remember if he had surgery but I know for sure he had months of physical therapy and wore a TENS unit for over a decade.

I've known my friend for 15 years, I also know the culture of YWAM because they have a base right here in our town and that's where he 'worked' for six years, I met him just a couple weeks after he left their employment. YWAM functions on a model of asking others to support you. Whether you're a student in one of their DTS' or a full-time volunteer living on the base, everyone's income flows from the bank accounts of generous individuals.

The problem is my friend never left that mindset. About 12 years ago he and I were having a conversation, and I was explaining to him what I was working towards in school and professionally, and he said he and wife wanted to do thus-and-so, and then said "So when you start doing XYZ you can give us a couple hundred a month". He said with such a casual expectation like he was letting me borrow a lawnmower and to just bring it back when I was done. I've never forgotten that, on the outside I was stone faced but on the inside I was completely taken aback by the matter-of-factness that he had about expecting other people to essentially pay him.

He only uses his back as an excuse to turn down jobs, but he's never gone on disability (which he should if his back issue is that debilitating) and he's never made any money-requests saying he can't work because of his back, or it's so bad he can't do anything. Nothing along those lines. I've never seen him hindered by his back, he plays softball in rec leagues, chases his kids around the playground, carries groceries in the house. If his back was a chronic issue getting in the way of those things too then at the very least I would've heard from him about it, because we talk about everything.

The bottom line is my friend has, and always has had, a poor work ethic. And I see how he got it from his family culture (his dad is used car salesman who just moves the family from town to town taking whatever work might be available at a lot there), and then it the issue was compounded by his joining YWAM in his 20s.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Pray two fold:

1. For your own humility.
2. For your friends humility.

Seek the Lord's inspiration on how to deal with a friend.
See Jesus in everyone.

 

[WarriorAngel]

My greatest accomplishment is not my accomplishment at all, but the Lords graces [I hope to have one day] I desire humility in all it's perfect beauty in transformation.
Humility is probably one of the most beautiful personality traits I could hope on.
St Michaels chaplet is amazing. For the choirs of angels pray over you.

Am I humble? Not exactly. But the desire is the beginning.

Just explaining myself. humility means discarding the human traits that make inspiration from the Lord more difficult to comprehend which leads to our frustration on how to handle things. [I know right].
But an empty cup fills...

And I will pray for you.