Something That Stinks

[The Thadman]

In reading a poster on Livingston Campus, I found out that the Hillel House (http://www.rutgershillel.org), a Jewish center here at Rutgers, was offering "Passover Packs" for those who wished to celebrate at home with friends. Intrigued, I decided to give them a call to find out what these packs entailed, and inevitably the question came up:

"Are you Jewish?"

"Yes, I'm a Messianic."

"I'm sorry, we can't help you. These packs are for Jews only because of the limited resources we have."

Needless to say it cut deep, but I'm sure I'm not the only one this has happened to

I've sent the Rabbi I talked to an email in hopes of sparking conversation. Keep me in your prayers

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

 

[INOrder]

Hello Thadman,

Forgive me to tell you but I believe them to be correct.
The question they asked was not if you were reform, Orthodox, or the whatever; they had asked you if you were Jewish.
by your answer they should already know your doctrin, faith and theology.

May I ask you, in no obstructing manner, are you Jewish?
Do you have a Jewish mother?
or are you a convert to Judaism? (as having undergone a circumcision on your lower region or recieved a small cut if you have had a cuncision and then have gone through a Mikvah and recieved a Hebrew name from this? I believe this is the true concept of going through the ritual of being "born again")

If not, then I must say that you are not Jewish nor considered a Jew by those that are Jews.

You are entitled to your personal belief, and you may consider yourself to be a Jew, but it remains as I have said above.

I understand how you feel. And I must agree, it does "suck".
Never the less, the Hillil at your school is right, if they have a limited amount, they must give it "to the Jew first" nu?

so please, bare with them, if they have extras, then hound them- but a gentile cannot eat of the pesach seder.

bye

 

[JewishHeart]

"but a gentile cannot eat of the pesach seder"

Paul rebuked Peter for this very issue.. I for one am a Gentile and am happy the Holy Spirit sets me free to celebrate Pesach

 

[iitb]

"but a gentile cannot eat of the pesach seder"

Paul rebuked Peter for this very issue.. I for one am a Gentile and am happy the Holy Spirit sets me free to celebrate Pesach

Well, INOrder isn't Messianic, so I doubt he sees the "New Testament" as having any authority.

 

[The Thadman]

Hello Thadman,
Forgive me to tell you but I believe them to be correct.
The question they asked was not if you were reform, Orthodox, or the whatever; they had asked you if you were Jewish.
by your answer they should already know your doctrin, faith and theology.

By my answer, do you know my doctrine, faith, and theology?

May I ask you, in no obstructing manner, are you Jewish?

Do you have a Jewish mother?
or are you a convert to Judaism? (as having undergone a circumcision on your lower region or recieved a small cut if you have had a cuncision and then have gone through a Mikvah and recieved a Hebrew name from this? I believe this is the true concept of going through the ritual of being "born again")

I do not have a Jewish mother. I am circumcised. My Jewish name is "Thaddai" (hence, "The Thadman" ).

If not, then I must say that you are not Jewish nor considered a Jew by those that are Jews.

You are entitled to your personal belief, and you may consider yourself to be a Jew, but it remains as I have said above.

I understand how you feel. And I must agree, it does "suck".
Never the less, the Hillil at your school is right, if they have a limited amount, they must give it "to the Jew first" nu?

so please, bare with them, if they have extras, then hound them-

My reason for being upset was that they were more than willing to help me until they found out I happen to believe in the teachings of Jesus.

but a gentile cannot eat of the pesach seder.

bye

?

Exodus 12:
48 When a stranger shall live as a foreigner with you, and will keep the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one who is born in the land: but no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.
49 One law shall be to him who is born at home, and to the stranger who lives as a foreigner among you.”

 

[Mordechai18]

You should have told them that you are an atheist Jew who hates Israel. That's preferable to a Messianic, it would seem.
Remember the good old days, when Judaism was pluralistic, with healthy dissent and competing schools of thought?
I think that's a real problem today. There is one Judaism today, and most Jews don't even realize that our faith was much more diverse in the past.

 

[Mordechai18]

"Are you Jewish?"

"Yes, I'm a Messianic."

I must ask, though, Thadman - were you being purposely provocative by throwing in the "Messanic" instead of just saying, "Yes" ?

 

[Henaynei]

In reading a poster on Livingston Campus, I found out that the Hillel House (

http://www.rutgershillel.org), a Jewish center here at Rutgers, was offering "Passover Packs" for those who wished to celebrate at home with friends. Intrigued, I decided to give them a call to find out what these packs entailed, and inevitably the question came up:

"Are you Jewish?"

"Yes, I'm a Messianic."

"I'm sorry, we can't help you. These packs are for Jews only because of the limited resources we have."

Needless to say it cut deep, but I'm sure I'm not the only one this has happened to

I've sent the Rabbi I talked to an email in hopes of sparking conversation. Keep me in your prayers

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

Thaddai, you are truly a scholar and servent of Hashem, and a seeker of His wisdom....... May He continue to favor your study and learning and prosper you as you share your knowledge with others

Why must so many of us ger Messianics demand that Orthodox Judaism believe we are Jewish?? We are not!! The vast majority of us have never had a halakic conversion, or even have any idea what one entails. Why must we as sojourners with the Commonwealth of Israel insist we are Jews??

And why must we demand that an organization, KNOWN to view Jews that are Messianics as aphikoros, accept gerim MJs as Jews?? There was nothing malicious or discriminatory in what the Hillel organization did. Their ministry is to valiantly strive to keep Judaism from dying. They have limited resources with which to reach the Jewish youth that are bleeding away into gentile culture and faiths. They struggle to stop the hemorrage of assimilation - May the Holy One see that they succeed!!

If you need assistance with your Passover needs, ask a Messianic Ministry to help - then, when they don't, then you may have something to rail about.

I would wager that if anyone here on this forum has any real inability to get Matzah, horseradish and kosher grape juice for Passover there are people here who would try very hard to help. Ask the Mishpokah

If it is information you need, there is truly a plethora both amongst the archived threads of this forum and on the net.

 

[INOrder]

Hello Henaynei,

Thank you for your clarification, I believe that it was very much needed.

And Taddai,

if you have not undergone a "brit milah" in your lower region the only thing that you have is a cuncision- this is like the "circumcision" despised by Joshua- the "circumcision" of the Egyptians.
So, if you have only a cuncision, you would need to have a slight cut to be done so that blood drips- and this would be considered a Circumcision (brit milah) in order to partake of the seder, yes you would be called a stranger/proselyte (Ger) if you have done this with circumcision and not a "proselyte of the gate" (noachite) that may have a cuncision or still have his foreskin.

and he shall be as one who is born- what happens to a male child born 8 days ago- he recieves the Brit Milah, not a cuncision.
As in, "my mother gave me this for health reasons" is not a valid brit. but, in 8 days fromthe childs birth you say, " I have undergone circumcision in obedience to G'd" then this is a proper Brit.

However, this is only the Judaism that was taught by Ezra.

bye

 

[simchat_torah]

"Are you Jewish?"

"Yes, I'm a Messianic."

It seems the second part of your response (I'm a messianic) is intended to seperate. Would a Lubavitcher answer:

"Yes, I'm a Chassidic Barlov Lubavitcher"?
or would they have simply replied with "yes".

As well, the question of "jewish" was most likely one of ancestory, not belief system. I could be wrong, but when someone asks a messianic if they are Jewish and they reply yes, while being a gentile, offends me. Unless they are Jewish by lineage or by conversion, this is offensive to me.

yet, I intend no offense to you thadman

shalom,
yafet

p.s. these are just some thoughts in the insane head of yafet

 

[YatzivPatgam]

The Thadman,

So, when they asked if you were Jewish and you said "Yes, I am Messianic" you esstinally lied. You're mother was not Jewish and you didn't have a legitimate conversion. The state of your penis is moot, if your mother wasn't Jewish. Since your mother could be Jewih and you uncircumsized, you would be as Jewish as me.

I fail to see why this cuts deeply. Perhaps more insight is needed?

 

[Sephania]

AMein PrayforIsrel, Amein!

 

[simchat_torah]

Often times, those who are Gentile by blood and yet feel the conviction to practice Messianic Judaism, are tossed between both sides of the fence and rarely accepted by either.

I know Erin... this really shouldn't be. However, I don't think I'm going to go in the other direction and call everyone Jewish either... that would defeat the purpose. I seek a balance in all of this.

-Yafet

 

[Toney]

How many here are sick of being stereotyped by others and feel they aren't given the chance to speak for yourselves? I would bargain that a lot of us feel that way here. We are told that we aren't "orthodox enough" but when we try to start observing the traditions, we are told that we are Jewish wannabes and shouldn't be doing as such. Others here are told the opposite... to stop being "Jewish" and be more "Christian".

Unclean! Unclean!

I came to this fork in the road and took it. You know what I see? I see a lot of mouths going one way and feet going another.

Bless you, Erin, and those like you of whom there are too few.

Shalom.

 

[simchat_torah]

Shalom p4i,

We are told that we aren't "orthodox enough" but when we try to start observing the traditions, we are told that we are Jewish wannabes and shouldn't be doing as such.

Who stated the above?

curious,
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

I remember that guy... he was strongly anti-MJ yet he would proclaim the fact that he was Jewish. He would even denounce Jews who practiced Judaism and/or MJ'ism. He was rather annoying... lol. I'm glad he's gone.

If I remember correctly, we bumped heads on a few occasions.

 

[Toney]

Shalom,

If you remember Br. Max, you remember his signature:

For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received God’s favor…it is wrong to talk about Jesus Christ and live like Jews. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity.

Ignatius Bishop of Antioch (98-117A.D.) – Epistle to the Magnesians

I ran across Max, who is now banned, while researching old MJ threads trying to learn something.

The quote in his signature comes from "beneath the mantle of a hoary antiquity" and from one of 15 spurious letters judged to have been written in the 16th Century!

In one of his posts Max claims to be a Franciscan Deacon, so he has had at least two lives. Maybe more.

I did learn something. I learned that some of the "teachings" of the Church Fathers is forged garbage that was quite handy during the Counter-Reformation and fomented anti-Semitism.

 

[simchat_torah]

I had once posted something like over 10 things wrong and highly offensive with that quote. I am almost sickened to see it again.

 

[koilias]

I've sent the Rabbi I talked to an email in hopes of sparking conversation. Keep me in your prayers

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

Hey Thadman, I'm praying for you! Blessings achi!

Please report what the Rabbi says...If he is a righteous man, he will know what to do.

 

[simchat_torah]

I guess I missed this earlier:

I've sent the Rabbi I talked to an email in hopes of sparking conversation. Keep me in your prayers

Very cool... will do.