Something I need to get off my chest about the whole creation/evolution thing.

ViaCrucis said:

Microraptor, a small feathered dinosaur:

Click to expand...

Since we are just grabbing random pictures of the internet to "prove evolution" lol

Unicorn/Pegasus hybrid fossil




Take the blinders off man...

More antichrist atheist evolution tom foolery..



1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEYMeGbmrAU

ViaCrucis said:

Except, of course, the fossil record is absolutely abundant. -CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

You keep saying this but paleontologists disagree, rather objectively.




"250,000 species of plants and animals recorded and deposited in museums throughout the world did not support the gradual unfolding hoped for by Darwin."

(Dr. David Raup, curator of geology at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago, "Conflicts Between Darwinism and Paleontology")




"The explanation value of the evolutionary hypothesis of common origin is nil! Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, it seems to convey anti-knowledge. How could I work on evolution ten years and learn nothing from it? Most of you in this room will have to admit that in the last ten years we have seen the basis of evolution go from fact to faith! It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not be taught in high school, and that's all we know about it."

(Dr. Colin Patterson, evolutionist and senior Paleontologist at the British Museum of Natural History, which houses 60 million fossils)




"Nine-tenths of the talk of evolutionists is sheer nonsense, not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by facts. This museum is full of proofs of the utter falsity of their views. In all this great museum, there is not a particle of evidence of the transmutation of species." (Dr. Etheridge, Paleontologist of the British Museum)





"The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone; exactly the same sort of faith which is necessary to have when one encounters the great mysteries of religion... The only alternative is the doctrine of special creation, which may be true, but is irrational." (Dr. L.T. More)





"Hypothesis [evolution] based on no evidence and irreconcilable with the facts....These classical evolutionary theories are a gross over-simplification of an immensely complex and intricate mass of facts, and it amazes me that they are swallowed so uncritically and readily, and for such a long time, by so many scientists without a murmur of protest."

(Sir Ernst Chan, Nobel Prize winner for developing penicillin)





"The pathetic thing about it is that many scientists are trying to prove the doctrine of evolution, which no science can do."

(Dr. Robert A. Milikan, physicist and Nobel Prize winner, speech before the American Chemical Society.)

Those are all single quotes (very likely taken out of context) from individual people, who are not the scientific consensus. How about some actual data?

I personally do not find the need to pigeonhole God into the gaps between science. So, you like to harp on abiogenesis, which as yet is not even close to a theory and may well never be proven. People will take that and go "Aha! God!" However, what if we do eventually prove that life can come out of nothing? Does that mean that God didn't create? That is the danger of hyper-literalism. I believe that God created no matter the mechanism. Perhaps evolution is false - the entire scientific establishment is built on trying to overthrow prior theories. It IS the theory that has the most evidence right now, but that doesn't mean it could at some point be overthrown. Science isn't a giant conspiracy, and the person who definitively disproves the theory of evolution would win a Nobel prive.

None of that changes that young earth creationism has no evidence. I prefer to believe that Genesis is not a science book, and is instead an answer to the question of "Why?"

Melethiel said:

None of that changes that young earth creationism has no evidence. I prefer to believe that Genesis is not a science book, and is instead an answer to the question of "Why?"

Click to expand...

Did God create life on earth.


Or did life arise by cosmic accident.

Melethiel said:

However, what if we do eventually prove that life can come out of nothing?

Click to expand...

Abiogenesis is not possible, has never been observed, and is in direct violation of what God has told us.



To refute this is to refute God.

Not me.


The entire fairy tale of abiogenesis comes from the mind of men.

Gen_6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

What is more evil than replacing God with nothing...

Melethiel said:

the person who definitively disproves the theory of evolution would win a Nobel prive.

Click to expand...

Im sure the person who disproves santa clause will win the same prize too...

1Ti_6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:


Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

You are creating a false dilemma. Just because we cannot observe God, does not mean that God is not acting behind the scenes. To categorically claim that "abiogenesis is impossible" just because it hasn't been demonstrated yet is to put limits onto faith.

Melethiel said:

You are creating a false dilemma. Just because we cannot observe God, does not mean that God is not acting behind the scenes. To categorically claim that "abiogenesis is impossible" just because it hasn't been demonstrated yet is to put limits onto faith.

Click to expand...

Abiogenesis is impossible.

God created life, life did not create itself.


In the name Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

*head smack*

Melethiel said:

Just because we cannot observe God, does not mean that God is not acting behind the scenes

Click to expand...

I never said we cant observe God. And God is most certainly working "behind the scenes" as you say..


God is in us.

Joh_14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


Or will you reject this scripture to?


Tell me, was Jesus Christ born of a virgin?


Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Time4Truth said:

I never said we cant observe God. And God is most certainly working "behind the scenes" as you say..


God is in us.

Joh_14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


Or will you reject this scripture to?


Tell me, was Jesus Christ born of a virgin?


Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

Click to expand...

Yes.

What does that have to do with evolution and abiogenesis?

Melethiel said:

Yes.

What does that have to do with evolution and abiogenesis?

Click to expand...

Everything.

Do you know who this verse is talking about??

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Since we are all Christians on this forum, nobody is denying that God created. In fact, that is the entire point we have been trying to make.

Melethiel said:

Since we are all Christians on this forum, nobody is denying that God created. In fact, that is the entire point we have been trying to make.

Click to expand...

So then life didn't organize itself in a cosmic accident, as abiogenesis (by the literal definition of the word) states?

For context A-Bio-Genesis NOT CREATED BY LIFE


Biogenesis is a law, has been observed, and every living thing is a result of it.


To say biogenesis and abiogenesis can exist in the same universe violates the law of non contradiction.


The only way this law is not violated is if an ontological creator, not bound by time, space or matter, created life initially.


And not by accident, but by the sheer will of God for life to be here.

He created life, life cannot organize itself.

Time4Truth said:

Because Im not claiming there is an issue.

Hes essentially trying to set me up, and Im not going to play that way.


If he believes he has solid discrepancies, he can point them out.

Click to expand...

I DID. I don't have to cite chapter and verse for you.

Time4Truth said:

Everything.

Do you know who this verse is talking about??

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Click to expand...

So when I make a bologna sandwich, that was made by God. Yes. But that doesn't mean he supernaturally inserted himself in the normal flow of natural cause and natural effect in order to make it for me. God works through natural means as well as supernatural means, and both are equally God's doing.

Abiogenesis and evolution are purely natural processes, but that doesn't make them any less God's works.

GratiaCorpusChristi said:

Abiogenesis and evolution are purely natural processes, but that doesn't make them any less God's works.

Click to expand...

Sounds an awful lot like pantheism to me...:o

GratiaCorpusChristi said:

I DID. I don't have to cite chapter and verse for you.

Click to expand...

If you were gonna pick a few known discrepancies and use that to support your argument, why not list them all, because you missed a bunch more..

The subject was still fulfilled, just the way it was documented seemed a little inconsistent..

None of which affect doctrine in any way..

We could speculate all day on what the soldiers with Paul actually encountered but the end result is the same.

Christ.


You would have to match Genesis allegorically to evolution and abiogenesis and that my friend would be absurd..