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Something I need to get off my chest about the whole creation/evolution thing.

Targaryen

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I just gave here the literal definition of what those words mean.


If that is what quantifies as "ad hominem" around here then so be it.

I'm sure we understand those terms quite well, you're trying to equate the point that evolutional science and a belief in theistic evolution = atheism, which is not just ignorant but a pet ad hominem for you to use as you can't prove much of anything else.
 
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Time4Truth

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I'm sure we understand those terms quite well, you're trying to equate the point that evolutional science and a belief in theistic evolution = atheism, which is not just ignorant but a pet ad hominem for you to use as you can't prove much of anything else.

To be quite honest, Ive debated many an atheist on this subject and never a Christian.


But then I don't exactly engage Catholics outside this forum, I understand you guys have a guy over your church who tells you what to believe.


Evolution, aliens.. Sounds fun, but no thanks.
 
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Targaryen

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But then I don't exactly engage Catholics outside this forum, I understand you guys have a guy over your church who tells you what to believe.

Oh really and who is this person that doesn't exist except in your mind?

Please provide details.
 
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Time4Truth

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Oh really and who is this person that doesn't exist except in your mind?

Please provide details.


Im speaking the Roman Catholic infallibility regarding issues like aliens and evolution.


Dawkins already busted a priest who believes humans come from monkeys.


Where they get that I can only imagine.


But then again, they sell salvation for a buck, so Im not surprised.
 
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Targaryen

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Im speaking the Roman Catholic infallibility regarding issues like aliens and evolution.


Dawkins already busted a priest who believes humans come from monkeys.


Where they get that I can only imagine.


But then again, they sell salvation for a buck, so Im not surprised.

Not speaking well about this dark age theology you are attempting to disprove when you can't understand modern RC practise regarding thing like indulgences, which aren't as wide spread as they used to be.

I know of no RC policy regarding aliens or evolution as regarding papal infallibility. do you even understand those two things are not one and the same or even what the concept of papal infallibility means?

You just tossing around things to make it stick? As for Dawkins, considering Dawkins is what I'd like to call a atheist fundamentalist his criticism of the priest may or may not have been a sound scientific rebuttal. I personally can't stand Dawkins for his attitudes, which he shares with christian or islamic fundamentalists, so I can't really comment on his observations as I tend to ignore whatever he's involved with.
 
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Time4Truth

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Not speaking well about this dark age theology you are attempting to disprove when you can't understand modern RC practise regarding thing like indulgences, which aren't as wide spread as they used to be.

I know of no RC policy regarding aliens or evolution as regarding papal infallibility. do you even understand those two things are not one and the same or even what the concept of papal infallibility means?

You just tossing around things to make it stick? As for Dawkins, considering Dawkins is what I'd like to call a atheist fundamentalist his criticism of the priest may or may not have been a sound scientific rebuttal. I personally can't stand Dawkins for his attitudes, which he shares with christian or islamic fundamentalists, so I can't really comment on his observations as I tend to ignore whatever he's involved with.

Indulgences. Peddling the Gospel to the detriment of the sheep.

Sad indeed.

I tend to ignore whatever he's involved with.

He is the worlds leading expert on the hypothesis of evolutionary biology.


I doubt yours statement holds water.
 
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Time4Truth

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Not speaking well about this dark age theology you are attempting to disprove when you can't understand modern RC practise regarding thing like indulgences, which aren't as wide spread as they used to be.

I know of no RC policy regarding aliens or evolution as regarding papal infallibility. do you even understand those two things are not one and the same or even what the concept of papal infallibility means?

You just tossing around things to make it stick? As for Dawkins, considering Dawkins is what I'd like to call a atheist fundamentalist his criticism of the priest may or may not have been a sound scientific rebuttal. I personally can't stand Dawkins for his attitudes, which he shares with christian or islamic fundamentalists, so I can't really comment on his observations as I tend to ignore whatever he's involved with.

Lets not forget, Dawkins is an antichrist.

1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 
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Targaryen

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Indulgences. Peddling the Gospel to the detriment of the sheep.

Sad indeed.

Christians "peddle" the gospel all the time. It's called evangelism.



He is the worlds leading expert on the hypothesis of evolutionary biology.

I don't doubt his scientific credentials, however his atheistic fundamentalist fervor is why I'll listen to other sources of biological discoveries, some may quote him or not depending on the work.

So my opinion on Dawkins' attitudes with the priest you chose not to name is rather full of holes I agree, but I did say I choose to generally ignore Dawkins. so if you can't handle the fact that some of us may not choose to listen to your particular targets in an effort to attempt to discredit theistic evolution is rather ridiculous.
 
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Time4Truth

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Christians "peddle" the gospel all the time. It's called evangelism..

You know what Im talking about. Paying the Church for the salvation of those who are dead.

Mormons do something similar.


I don't doubt his scientific credentials, however his atheistic fundamentalist fervor is why I'll listen to other sources of biological discoveries, some may quote him or not depending on the work.

So my opinion on Dawkins' attitudes with the priest you chose not to name is rather full of holes I agree, but I did say I choose to generally ignore Dawkins. so if you can't handle the fact that some of us may not choose to listen to your particular targets in an effort to attempt to discredit theistic evolution is rather ridiculous.

His name is Cardinal George Pell and Dawkins criticized him for believing humans come from monkeys and Neanderthals.


Which of course, is rather humorous..
 
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Targaryen

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You know what Im talking about. Paying the Church for the salvation of those who are dead.

Mormons do something similar.

I don't know many Catholics that do that anymore, even if the policy still exists.

Mormons don't actually, they baptize the dead. which a heresy onto it's own.


His name is Cardinal George Pell and Dawkins criticized him for believing humans come from monkeys and Neanderthals.


Which of course, is rather humorous..

Pell is kind of wrong though, evolution of Humans was not that fine of a line. And some theories suggest the Neanderthal was a separate evolutionary hominid line. There is suggestions that neanderthal may have cross-bred with Homo Sapiens but that the Neanderthal line but the line was a definate branch of its own. Part of the reason Neanderthals died out it is thought in this particular theory is that Homo Sapiens simply overcrowded their areas and Neanderthal lifespan was not as robust as Homo Sapiens.
 
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Time4Truth

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I don't know many Catholics that do that anymore, even if the policy still exists.

Mormons don't actually, they baptize the dead. which a heresy onto it's own..

I more concerned with the fact that it ever existed to begin with.

Pell is kind of wrong though, evolution of Humans was not that fine of a line. And some theories suggest the Neanderthal was a separate evolutionary hominid line. There is suggestions that neanderthal may have cross-bred with Homo Sapiens but that the Neanderthal line but the line was a definate branch of its own. Part of the reason Neanderthals died out it is thought in this particular theory is that Homo Sapiens simply overcrowded their areas and Neanderthal lifespan was not as robust as Homo Sapiens.

Wild speculations.

God has spoken, he created man in his current genotype, and weve been this way ever since.


Im not exactly sold on pictures of bones and incoherent theories.


Two archeologists will never agree on when these supposed Neanderthals existed.
 
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Targaryen

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I more concerned with the fact that it ever existed to begin with.

Wouldn't surprise me if we'll get more anti-Catholic speculations from you. which is just as much non-theology as it is more of an excuse to discriminate.



Wild speculations.

God has spoken, he created man in his current genotype, and weve been this way ever since.


Im not exactly sold on pictures of bones and incoherent theories.


Two archeologists will never agree on when these supposed Neanderthals existed.

45,000-Year-Old Bone Pinpoints Era of Human-Neanderthal Sex

45,000-Year-Old Bone Pinpoints Era of Human-Neanderthal Sex

DNA from an ancient man in Siberia shows how Stone Age people spread into Asia.

Dan Vergano
National Geographic
Published October 22, 2014
Unearthed by an ivory carver from a Siberian riverbank, a man's 45,000-year-old thigh bone reveals when people first mated with Neanderthals, an international genetics team reports Wednesday.



The Ust'-Ishim man's thigh bone is the oldest human bone found so far outside of Africa and the Middle East, according to the report in the journal Nature. It's nearly twice as old as the next oldest from a modern human, which comes from a boy who died elsewhere in Siberia some 24,000 years ago.
Scientists collected DNA from the bone and analyzed the ancient man's complete genetic map, or genome. The DNA narrows down the time when mating first brought Neanderthal genes into the human gene pool: from 50,000 to 60,000 years ago.
"It's really exciting that we now have a really high-quality genome sequence of an early modern human that is this old," says study author and genetics expert Janet Kelso of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany.
Recent DNA studies led by Max Planck's Svante Pääbo, another author of the new study, have found traces of Neanderthal in modern people. Typically about 1.6 to 2.1 percent of the genes in people of Eurasian descent are Neanderthal in origin. (Related: "Neanderthals Died Out 10,000 Years Earlier Than Thought, With Help From Modern Humans.")
Early Liaisons
Archaeological finds show that Neanderthals and modern humans overlapped in the Middle East as long as 100,000 years ago, says paleoanthropologist John Hawks of the University of Wisconsin in Madison. But the new DNA findings seem to rule out mating taking place until much later.
Previous studies put the timing of the earliest human-Neanderthal mating anywhere from 86,000 to 37,000 years ago.
The researchers narrowed that range to 50,000 to 60,000 years ago by calculating the loss of Neanderthal genes over time since the gene swapping occurred. The Ust'-Ishim man had about 2.3 percent Neanderthal genes, but modern people typically have less than 2.1 percent.
Using the mutation rate as a genetic "clock," the researchers extrapolated back to determine the era when modern humans picked up genes from Neanderthals.
"I think the paper is pretty convincing on this," Hawks says. But he cautions that the idea of a single time of human mating with Neanderthals "almost certainly is an oversimplification. The contacts could have extended over a longer period."
A possible second, more recent, episode may explain slightly higher numbers of Neanderthal genes common today in East Asians, according to the study.
Asian Migration
The femur shaft turned up on the banks of the Irtysh River near Ust'-Ishim, Russia, in 2008. A Russian ivory carver and historian named Nikolay Peristov collected the bone after it eroded from a bluff above the river in western Siberia. It was identified as human, based on its teardrop-shaped cross section, in 2010.
84928_270x172-cb1413922154.jpg
Ust'-Ishim man's thigh bone.
Photograph by Bence Viola, MPI EVA

The age of the femur confirms the timing suggested by artifacts of the "first foragers" in Siberia, early hunter-gatherers who spread into Europe and Asia within the past 60,000 years, Kelso says.
"We now show that there were indeed modern humans in the area," she says. A slightly warmer climate in Siberia more than 45,000 years ago may have enticed modern people to migrate to the region.
Genetically, the thigh bone's owner appears equally related to modern-day Asians and Native Americans. Surprisingly, he appears to be about as closely related to them as to the 24,000-year-old Siberian boy or Stone Age European hunter-gatherers dated in other ancient DNA studies, notes paleoanthropologist Henry Harpending of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, who was not part of the study.
Of modern groups, the Ust'-Ishim man is less closely related to Europeans, perhaps because today's Europeans owe some of their ancestry to farmers who migrated there from the Middle East more than 10,000 years ago.
The ancient man's DNA does not appear to make him a direct ancestor of any modern people. He may have belonged to a branch of Stone Age people who migrated into Europe and Central Asia long ago, only to die out in an ice age.




Hmmm seems more then just two archaeologist agree on this particular find. Care to retract yet?
 
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Time4Truth

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Wouldn't surprise me if we'll get more anti-Catholic speculations

I have no issue critiquing false theology.


There are many Christians in the Catholic faith who are far more righteous than I ever will be.

The same could be said for protestants.

Or just good old bible believing Christians like myself..


Christs sheep know his voice, its not a matter of denomination, its a matter of the heart.
 
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Time4Truth

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Nope, given the dating of the femur and the DNA collection from it.

Could the dating methods be incorrect?

If the dating methods were not objective, they would still yield consistent results.


have you personally verified their claims, or do you have faith they know what they are talking about?
 
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Targaryen

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Could the dating methods be incorrect?

If the dating methods were not objective, they would still yield consistent results.


have you personally verified their claims, or do you have faith they know what they are talking about?

Carbon-14 dating is widely proven to be an effective and efficient dating technique. It's used by biologists, archaeologists, for dating any find of biological or human made artifact. There has been no contrary claims based on scientific models that has proven as effective.

So yes, I have complete trust in they know what they are talking about.
 
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Time4Truth

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So yes, I have complete trust in they know what they are talking about.

Interesting. Ive only ever put complete trust in the Lord.

Psa 146:3 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.


I suppose this is where we differ.


I say let God be true, and every man a liar.


People who reject Christ have a motive to provide evidence against the bible.
 
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Targaryen

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Interesting. Ive only ever put complete trust in the Lord.

Psa 146:3 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.


I suppose this is where we differ.


I say let God be true, and every man a liar.


People who reject Christ have a motive to provide evidence against the bible.
In terms of these people knowing what they are doing scientifically yes.

In terms of lying to themselves and others about faith, no man is exempt.

Apples and oranges.
 
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Time4Truth

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So yes, I have complete trust in they know what they are talking about.

Just to reiterate what is written.

Psa 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man.

Mic 7:5 Do not trust in a neighbor; Do not have confidence in a friend. From her who lies in your bosom Guard your lips.

Col 3:2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.


Are these scriptures from God?
 
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