Something every Young Earth Creationist should read

[Vance]

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/transform.htm

This not only is an interesting story by one who was formerly one of the top Creationists around, it is also an example of the point I have made here many times regarding the dangers YEC poses to Christianity.

 

[Ark Guy]

So?????....It was obvious that Morton was duped. Just like you.

 

[troodon]

That was a great read. Thank God he managed to keep his faith through that long ordeal.

 

[Ark Guy]

...did he?

 

[wblastyn]

So?????....It was obvious that Morton was duped. Just like you.

LOL you just confirmed everything he wrote about creationists and usually do in every post you make.

So what have we been duped by?

 

[wblastyn]

...did he?

Yes, despite being lied to, misled and having his faith put into question by creationists he managed to remain a Christian.

 

[Ark Guy]

besides being a Joke, Glenn Morton is a liar:

Unfortunately, my fellow young earth creationists were not willing to listen to the problems. In general they were not interested in discussing the difficulties and they did not want to read any material that contradicted their cherished position.

..there are many Young earth Creationist who have listened to the..so called problems. It's just that they didn't agree with Morton...so now Morton has to make up these excuses.

examples:
http://www.trueorigin.org/ca_jw_02.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0206mortenson_response.asp
http://www.trueorigin.org/geocolumn.asp
http://www.asa3.org/archive/ASA/200101/0105.html

 

[The Barbarian]

Morton seems to be a better model of Christ than Ark Guy.

No one but Morton knows for sure how creationists reacted to him.

The knee-jerk scream of "liar" is a pretty sad comment, in context.

 

[Vance]

Right, those opposed to the YEC teachings could ask for nothing better than to have ArkGuy here presenting himself as a YEC. Nothing could possibly cause more damage to the YEC cause than posts like his.

Hey, maybe he is an OEC or TE in disguise? If so, it is working brilliantly!

 

[joelbarrutia]

I found the first article posted to have not real proof, and absolutely no convincing evidence against the flood of Gen. No context is given, only light examples with no proof are provided, we are forced to trust the author, and believe what he says...

his examples are light, "I would see buried mountains which had experienced more than 10 thousands of feet of erosion, which required more time than a single year."
why could a year of flooding not make "10 thousand feet of erosion"?

I find the author is lacking a skeptical mind, each of his examples seems to point to a flood... not away from it..

 

[troodon]

I found the first article posted to have not real proof, and absolutely no convincing evidence against the flood of Gen. No context is given, only light examples with no proof are provided, we are forced to trust the author, and believe what he says...

his examples are light, "I would see buried mountains which had experienced more than 10 thousands of feet of erosion, which required more time than a single year."
why could a year of flooding not make "10 thousand feet of erosion"?

I find the author is lacking a skeptical mind, each of his examples seems to point to a flood... not away from it..

In case you hadn't noticed, the story was not meant to falsify a global flood. It was to describe the individual's ordeal within the ranks of YEC and to relate their state of mind regarding potential falsifications.

 

[joelbarrutia]

However, if examples are given, it is ABSOLUTELY necessary to give references, or explain in detail, if you don’t, then don’t give the example, all you do is mislead people

 

[troodon]

However, if examples are given, it is ABSOLUTELY necessary to give references, or explain in detail, if you don’t, then don’t give the example, all you do is mislead people

If his goal was to falsify a global flood then absolutely he would need references. But, since this is a personal story which centers around points other than how he came to abandon YEC, anecodotal evidence is certainly acceptable since he is not trying to convince you of his position.

 

[Vance]

Oh, if you want his evidence in detail, just check out his site and all the articles. A search under Glen Morton will get you there pretty easy. This was just a form of testimony of his being saved from the clutches of YEC'ism and somehow retaining his Christianity. As a scientist, he knows how to provide references. Check out his stuff, it is worth the effort.

 

[joelbarrutia]

thanks Vance, I will try to (I am pretty busy...) it will have to wait until at least tomorrow night... )

 

[Vance]

Hey, the fact that are willing to go and read it at all puts you miles ahead of most YEC's, so take your time!

 

[Vance]

So?????....It was obvious that Morton was duped. Just like you.

But see that is the entire point, he wasn't "duped" into believing anything. He had read and studied the writings evidencing and old earth and supporting evolution (through his YEC filter) and was not convinced. It was not people who could convince him, since he could just discount their evidence as being generated by fallible humans.

It was only when he went out as a scientist and began seeing and dealing with the evidence first hand that he realized from what he was seeing and studying in real life that the YEC position could simply not possibly true. Here is someone who not only *wanted* and *expected* the evidence to coincide (or even help establish) his YEC beliefs, he had a lot vested in such a result. As one of the leading creationists going, he had a lot of time, energy, money and professional reputation built into the YEC teachings. So, it took him a long time to face the facts.

But, in the end, he did face the facts, much to his credit. But it was no person, ideology or teaching that convinced him. It was simply the evidence of God's Creation viewed first hand. God does not dupe.

 

[joelbarrutia]

his examples are light,

well, I have read a few of his papers (4 or 5) and I still have to agree with my first statement, each "proof" given seems to have logical flaws and or misinterpretations.

His papers are quite biased, (like a lot of YEC's.. yes I know) and I find a lot of his information lacking or incomplete

I really do not like reading web sites like that, his authority was quite often the only proof of what he is saying, just about all pictures or tables are incomplete or too blurry to see.

I am sorry, but I find a vast majority of his arguments light, and incomplete... But on the plus side, he has inspired me to study geology more, (this seems to happen all the time... I read about a subject and get really interested) but it will have to wait until I am done with cosmology... ( I am trying to get a fairly advanced understanding of all of the theories involved)




I would write spicific examples of his mistakes, however I dont have time (at least right now)


and as a side note... I am starting to feel I am going to get sucked into posting here a lot, something I dont want to do. I have been involved in a large number of internet debates, but they NEVER get any where, so I will most likely not be coming back.. I guess you will have to wait and see. I think I will come and read posts, but I wont be posting much

and no, I dont feel I will "lose" or anything like that, I just really dont want to "have to write one more post before I go to bed"

 

[Vance]

Actually, the whole "bias" issue is exactly what I find most persuasive about Morton's positions (not that I agree with all of them).

His bias when he began looking at the evidence was ENTIRELY for YEC'ism. He has not only a graduate of ICR, he was already one of the leading Creationists going. He approached the evidence specifically expecting to find proof of a young earth and against evolution. That was his bias.

What eventually changed his mind was the actual evidence itself, not any teaching or presentation by anyone else. The more he looked and tried to MAKE it fit into a YEC model, the more he began to realize it just woudn't work. He had not only heard, but had advocated and written about all the YEC concepts, so he was as familiar with them as anyone, and he wholly believed them.

It would have taken a LOT of clear and unequivocal evidence to make him change his deeply ingrained beliefs. Against his own wishes, he found it.

 

[Vance]

Bump