Total depravity or partial depravity at least we can both agree WFM that in ourselves we are sinful and that we need the Lord Jesus!
Yes, indeed ! Even us who don't believe one little bit ! For if His Longsuffering were not being extended to us, we would have ceased to have life, the instant we ever sinned.
1"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." (Ephesians 2)
I would like your thoughts on this passage.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believes in me shall never die. Believe thou this? <-----> John 11:25+26
Jesus speaks of those who though dead, yet live. And this can apply in basically two ways -
1. Though being dead physically - we will rise up alive in the resurrection.
2. Though being dead "in trespasses and sins", we can be "raised up to walk in newness of life".
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. <-----> Romans 6:4
The Bible sometimes refers to us as being "dead", "without hope", "the children of wrath" etc. and it does this before "The Day of Judgment" to underscore that in that "Day", those who've not repented and turned to The Lord/His Spirit for their Salvation will be utterly rejected from inheriting eternal life as a "soul" - an individual with a body and a spirit who is made in God's Own Image.
Yet, until that "Great & Dreadful Day", as long as God's Longsuffering is being extended to us, there is hope for the living - those who yet have a spirit in their body.
Some of the problems with not taking both these perspectives into account is that some who think they're "totally in the clear", while others (unlike them selves) are totally "dead in the water", tend to start acting presumptuously, and as such often, have little compunction over being of a condescending or even condemning nature towards others, who they regard as being "heathen". Which is one of the dangers of rather exclusively embracing a "black or white", "saved or unsaved", perspective towards humanity.
Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. <-----> 1st Corinthians 10:12
For not he that commends himself is approved, but whom the Lord commends. <-----> 2nd Corinthians 10:18
Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. <-----> Psalm 19:13
Verses in Scripture which are designed to build confidence, need to be balanced with those which speak against being overconfident.
This does not make sense to me WFM, the devil exists and he has so turned from God that he is evil incarnate. Of course he is not like us in the sense that he has a body, but he does have a spirit (he is one) as we do and yet he still exists because God in his sovereignty allows it to be.
There is One Major Difference - Jesus died for "all the sins of humanity", not for the sins of "evil angels".
Jesus said that "you must be born again." This is a prerequisite to salvation, He is holy and for us to be like Him we must be born anew in the Holy Spirit (His divine seed). Our spirit must be united and born afresh through the regeneration of the Spirit of God. We are inherently sinful creatures and must act on our sinful instincts, but when the Lord saves us and provides the way for us to partake of the divine nature we are capable to not sin by dependence upon the Spirit of God who was given to us.
No question "we must be born again". But if we have not yet been, there's still hope we will be, as long as we yet do live. While some who may have begun to be so may have their love wax cold when "iniquity abounds". And others may well believe they've already been fully "born again", only to find in The Day of Judgment - they were deceived !
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." (Romans 7:18)
Paul said that in his person dwells no good thing, he was not capable of doing anything good. Now, he did admit that within him dwells the desire to please God and to do good, but actually doing these things without preconceived evil desires and ambitions, was, in his mind, impossible.
He said no good thing is "in me" and then specified that by "me" he meant "his flesh", our flesh is not our "person" it is only the carnal part of our person.
And that "good desire" to please God, dwells in the human spirit, which is a tiny measure of God's Spirit.
As Jesus testified -
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. <-----> Matthew 26:41
Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak. <-----> Mark 14:38
Yet, without the "second breath/wind", "Gift of The Holy Spirit", we generally lack sufficient "love, faith, virtue, wisdom",etc.
Is man capable in himself alone to be a good person? Absolutely not! The bible says that the heart of man is desperately wicked and above all: deceitful, this (the heart) is not something we can trust, our heart (after the rebellion of man) has been corrupted (unholy) and beyond repair, we must be born again and given a new heart to serve the Lord with, it is the only way.
I'd say man is not capable of being anything at all in or by himself.
When context changes emphasis changes. And "sound doctrine" is circumspect, taking into consideration all the varying contexts and emphases.
Yes, we're told the human heart is evil, desperately wicked...and that none is good but God.
Yet, we are also told -
Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations <---> From Genesis 6:9
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. <-----> Job 1:11
And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counselor; and he was a good man, and a just: <-----> Luke 23:50
I know that we both agree on most of this, it's really just semantics, but I do believe that the doctrine of the inherent evil of man is definitely a close to fundamental doctrine of the faith.
Always in love, SoS.
Yea, it's not like I'm trying to dispute what you've written, it's more like I'm trying to "expound" the subject unto some of the contrasting elements of Scripture...not to argue, but elaborate.
Peace, Love, and Joy, in Christ, to you also, my brother !
wm
