Someone explain this to me

[icbal]

Ok.

*Sigh*

A prophecy comes BEFORE the happening.
Not after.

Secondly, 3:16 is said by John, not Jesus:
John is the only person to ever use the expression "Only begotten son".
In the original scripture, there was no punctuation and speech marks dont exist.
Common sense tells you, Jesus didn't say it.
Add to this many Christian Schollars end the quotation at 3:15.
Therefore 3:16 means nothing.

3rdly, thats not a prophecy from Jesus, its an assumption of Matthew and the others, and you.
Jesus only ever tells us he will go away and in a little while come back again.
And that in a little while they wont see him, and then after a little while they will see him again.
Does Jesus say he will die and come back to life?
No.

Add to this that Jesus told us to lok for the sign of the Jonah, and Jonah did not die after 3 days in the belly of a fish, common sense tells you, Jesus didn't die on the cross.




I'm still waiting.

 

[tulc]

3rdly, thats not a prophecy from Jesus, its an assumption of Matthew and the others, and you.
Jesus only ever tells us he will go away and in a little while come back again.
And that in a little while they wont see him, and then after a little while they will see him again.
Does Jesus say he will die and come back to life?
No.

Ahh so those are corrupted? Got it!
tulc(this is fun!)

 

[tulc]

Add to this that Jesus told us to lok for the sign of the Jonah, and Jonah did not die after 3 days in the belly of a fish, common sense tells you, Jesus didn't die on the cross.

Soooo the Jonah scripture isn't corrupted?
tulc(thinks there is a need for coffee here!)

 

[maccoy77]

God is different from all HIS creations. there is nothing like him. He needs none and nothing, while everyone and everything needs HIM

If God needs None and nothing than whats the purpose of creation ??

 

[icbal]

Ahh so those are corrupted? Got it!
tulc(this is fun!)

I didn't say the book of Matthew was corrupted.
I said he assumed the meaning.

I take you to another such instance of this.

It is supposedly when Jesus tells us that all foods are clean.
I will show you Jesus' explaination of this.

Matthew 15:20
20. These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean'".

This is Marks explaination of what Jesus said.
Mark 7:19
"For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all food 'clean'.)

So you can see this is not what Jesus was saying, but its what Mark assumed he was saying.
This is corruption, just a wrong assumption.

Soooo the Jonah scripture isn't corrupted?

Nope.

The Jonah Scripture has two purposes.
1. Its the prophecy of Jesus' "death".
2. Its to show that when a people do obey Gods messenger, He wont still destroy them, He will take them to Himself.

If God needs None and nothing than whats the purpose of creation ??

To spread knowledge and wisdom.

 

[tulc]

So we're back to: if I agree: not corrupted, if I disagree: corrupted. Doesn't that sort of make your beliefs what matters not the Scriptures?
As a second point how can you accept Matthew telling of the sign of Jonah, but not when he says "From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life," that's just Matthew giving his version of the ongoing conversations Jesus and the Apostles had about His dying and ressurection.
tulc(who thinks he may be getting it but wants to be sure)

 

[icbal]

It is perfectly possible for Matthew, Mark, or any of the Apostles to take a teaching the wrong way. They are but men.
When what the Apostles says doesn't agree with what they quote Jesus as saying, then they must have been mistaken or they assumed.

In the Book of Matthew, Chapter 12, Verse 39 to 40, it is Jesus, not Matthew that tells us this.

You can read the Gosples and find many times when Jesus says one thing and his very closest followers misunderstand or dont understand at all.
Usually its said about Peter and makes him look foolish.

So I am not saying that the Book of Matthew is corrupted.
I am saying that, as is evident about the apostles in all the Gospels, they get it wrong from time to time.

That is why it is better to read what Jesus said, and not what the apostles tells us he means.
Jesus, afterall, is the man we're looking at here. He's the important one.

Thats why I can seperate from what Jesus explains to us about what will happen to him, and about Matthews (in your words) "version" of what Jesus explains to us about what will happen to him.

 

[tulc]

That is why it is better to read what Jesus said, and not what the apostles tells us he means.

Matt. 16: 21
Jesus Predicts His Death
21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Uhmm isn't that what he was doing here? He isn't saying "this is what Jesus ment" he's saying "Jesus started telling us he was going to Jerusalem and be killed and then raise again in 3 days" See?
tulc(having a great day, drinking coffee, talking on CF)

 

[muffler dragon]

No, I dont understand it.

Tell me how, that just because Jesus was born of a virgin, it makes God his father.

God is everyones father. Someone explain to me how Jesus is Gods real, and not metaphorical son, just because God created him in the womb, instead of by a mans seed - WHICH is not at all difficult for a being that can do anything he so wills.

How does that make Jesus Gods actual son?

Everyone else has God, Mother and Father.
God made Jesus without a Father.

Thats all.

That was the sign that the Messiah was here.
It was for no other purpose.

Its was the sign to say to everyone else "this is the one your looking for".

"Therfore the LORD will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call him Immanuel."

For what reason do you call Jesus the Son of God?

Icbal:

If you're ever interested in the Jewish perspective of Isaiah 7:14; then let me know. I'll gladly bring it forth.

 

[tulc]

If you're ever interested in the Jewish perspective of Isaiah 7:14; then let me know. I'll gladly bring it forth.

Hey that sounds cool! Lets hear it!
tulc(always ready to hear what others believe)

 

[muffler dragon]

Hey that sounds cool! Lets hear it!
tulc(always ready to hear what others believe)

Okay.

I'll give the short version for now. Taken from: http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=15938&showrashi=true

14. Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign He will give you a sign by Himself, against Your will.
is with child This is actually the future, as we find concerning Manoah’s wife, that the angel said to her (Judges 13:3): “And you shall conceive and bear a son,” and it is written, “Behold, you are with child and shall bear a son.”
the young woman My wife will conceive this year. This was the fourth year of Ahaz.
and she shall call his name Divine inspiration will rest upon her.
Immanuel [lit. God is with us. That is] to say that our Rock shall be with us, and this is the sign, for she is a young girl, and she never prophesied, yet in this instance, Divine inspiration shall rest upon her. This is what is stated below (8:3): “And I was intimate with the prophetess, etc.,” and we do not find a prophet’s wife called a prophetess unless she prophesied. Some interpret this as being said about Hezekiah, but it is impossible, because, when you count his years, you find that Hezekiah was born nine years before his father’s reign. And some interpret that this is the sign, that she was a young girl and incapable of giving birth.[/indent[​

This is not a Messianic prophesy that was to be fulfilled several millenia later.​

 

[Snow Angel]

"The Sinners Prayer"..........................
Heavenly Father:..........................................................................
I come to you in prayer asking for the forgiveness of
my Sins. I confess with my mouth and believe with my
heart that Jesus is your Son, And that he died on the
Cross at Calvary that I might be forgiven and have
Eternal Life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Father, I believe
that Jesus rose from the dead and I ask you right now
to come in to my life and be my personal Lord and
Savior. I repent of my Sins and will Worship you all the
day's of my Life!. Because your word is truth, I confess
with my mouth that I am Born Again and Cleansed
by the Blood of Jesus! In Jesus Name, Amen.
If you read the Sinners Prayer and truely believe the words you read, then
Praise the Lord as you have been saved and your name will appear in the
"Lambs Book of Life!"..

 

[icbal]

Icbal:

If you're ever interested in the Jewish perspective of Isaiah 7:14; then let me know. I'll gladly bring it forth.

Thankyou, I own a Tanakh. Its very insightful.

According to Isaiah 8:3 he slept with the young woman and she did give birth to a boy.

This "prophecy" of Jesus never did sit well with me, because she was to name him "Immanuel" - God is with us- while the angel came to Joseph and told him to name him "Yeshua" meaning "God saves".

If you couple that with that Jesus knew the scripture from the time he was born, and could speak easily when he was this young, it doesn't make sense that he would have to learn the difference between good and evil.

There are a LOT of said prophecies of Jesus that really, just dont add up to them being about him, but are associated with him anyway.
While others are specifically about him.

This is the purpose of this thread.

 

[Bevlina]

I believe Jesus actual spiritual name while on earth was known as Immanuel. Mankind called Him Yeshua. I was told His Spiritual Name was Immanuel because God was with the Jewish people at that time.

 

[muffler dragon]

Thankyou, I own a Tanakh. Its very insightful.

According to Isaiah 8:3 he slept with the young woman and she did give birth to a boy.

This "prophecy" of Jesus never did sit well with me, because she was to name him "Immanuel" - God is with us- while the angel came to Joseph and told him to name him "Yeshua" meaning "God saves".

If you couple that with that Jesus knew the scripture from the time he was born, and could speak easily when he was this young, it doesn't make sense that he would have to learn the difference between good and evil.

There are a LOT of said prophecies of Jesus that really, just dont add up to them being about him, but are associated with him anyway.
While others are specifically about him.

This is the purpose of this thread.

What you say is true.

 

[muffler dragon]

I believe Jesus actual spiritual name while on earth was known as Immanuel.

You are aware that "el" and "yah" are parts of many different Hebrew names, correct?

I was told His Spiritual Name was Immanuel because God was with the Jewish people at that time.

Truth be told, G-d hasn't left the Jewish people. If He did, then there's a good chance they wouldn't exist. As for what you've been told, it's an interesting opinion.

m.d.

 

[tulc]

Thanks md!
tulc(who thinks he may have to look over that site some more!)

 

[icbal]

I have never heard of anyone else having a spiritual name.
But I take what MD says truthfully, God IS still with Israel, because Israel is again a country standing alone.

 

[Bevlina]

God was on Israel soil as a human Being at that time is what I meant.

 

[icbal]

After this Prophesy in Isaiah 7:14, look to Isaiah 8:10

"Hatch a plot-it shall be foiled;
Agree on action-it shall not succeed.
For with us is God!

The verses are not about a messiah, or annointed one.