Some Understanding Please?

[TrustAndObey]

But do they believe Jesus was part of the Godhead? The Son of God that existed before Mary?

 

[smooze]

hey brother. I did some research on this subject ( 1 thing I love research) anyways this is some excerpts i found 1 deals with the quick build idea.
"J.W's have instituted a "quick build" system that can build a substantial brick veneer Kingdom Hall in just three days. Baptised members who are also qualified tradesmen are organised to work from a Friday to a Sunday. By Sunday P.M., the building is complete with painting and carpets, and gardens with reticulation established. Finance is pre-arranged as well as land and local government permits. All labour is voluntary. As to whether or not they have windows, this is simply answered by the fact that the building MUST comply with local government building codes as relating to a public hall catering for up to 200 people. Local government would not permit a public hall to be built without windows, especially from a health point of view." So this seems to be the logical concept. I have been pondering on the fact myself as I grew up attending Kingdom Halls with no windows up here in Canada. Apparently there are some halls with windows in the US. >>

<< there were more pictures but i chose this 1 as it is the nicest 1 I could find.

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The stock answer I was always told, was that windows are distracting to the people that should be listening. The real reason, I was told by elders who used to have windows in the hall, was that people kept breaking them and it was to inviting to vandals. I think both are actually partly true.

Well I hope this helps. My personal view is all the persecution in europe against JW's. Well some of their views are quite extreme. Try telling 10 billion catholics to stop celebrating the eucharist or easter mass. GOOOOOOOOOOOD luck SO vandalism and If memory serves I think yes probably so and a quite build makes sense.

oooh man i got to stop listening to this funk music as im trying to be intellectual LOL!!!!

 

[smooze]

But do they believe Jesus was part of the Godhead? The Son of God that existed before Mary?

Hi trust and obey. NO they don't believe in the GOD-head or trinity as it is commonly refered to as it is basically the same dang thing. I'm sure theres some explanation in their differnces. I was taught that the GOD (Jehovah this name has replaced any reference to GOD or when JESUS called HIS father was replaced with the name JEHOVAH) JESUS was the son of GOD (JEHOVAH,,,yaweh,,,madonna whatever) I just use the great IAM from Moses " I am who I say IAM" powerful. HOLY SPIRIT separate from JEHOVAH, JESUS both separate. The arch-angel micheal is mentioned and it's really only religious scholars specualtion and legalism of the bible which brought up the concept of HIM being JESUS as ARCH means OVER and Who else but JESUS the son of GOD could reign over all the others. WELL im a bit all over the place sorry. GOD bless

 

[Kazamataz]

Like Mjona mentioned, we do share views on the state of the dead with JWs.

What is the SDA view on death?

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

What is the SDA view on death?

This is probably one of the topics that you will find SDA's in agreement amongst themselves. Others can give more details, but here goes. SDA's believe in conditional immortality. Humans do not have a soul that naturally lives on after death. The soul is the combination of the physical body and the breath of god (see Genesis), and when one of these parts is taken away, the soul ceases to exist. Immortality is only given to those who are saved by grace. That means there is no eternal hell, where sinners are tormented. The punishment for sin is death, not being kept alive supernaturally by God in order to be tortured.

The SDA view claims to be the same (very close?) as the Hebrew view that is mainly found in the OT. It is very hard to find the idea of eternal hell in the OT. The final punishment for sinners is more characterised as destruction and absence of God.

The idea that the soul is naturally immortal comes more from Greek philosophy like Socrates and Plato. Christianity has been heavily mixed with Greek philosophy ever since the 3rd and 4th centuries when people like Justin Martyr and Origen used philosophical arguments to defend Christianity. Sometimes it benefited Christianity, but sometimes it hurt it.

I'm sure some of the other SDA's here can post some of the Bible texts.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Well, there's so much scriptural support for the Adventist view of death that I'm not really sure where to begin honestly.

I guess I'll start with the soul.

Genesis 2:7 states that God formed man out of the dust of the earth and breathed into him the breath of life (spirit), and man became a living soul.

Physical body + Spirit = living soul.

Scripture tells us that a soul can eat, lie, die, wash itself literally with water, and be destroyed.

In other words, we don't have souls, we are souls.

There's also scripture that says the grave is for the soul. (I can provide scripture for all of those verses I'm referring to if you want me to).

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Once the spirit leaves the human body, we are no longer a soul. We are asleep, and will be until the last trump.

David referred to the "sleep of death" in Psalms 13:3.

Jesus told the disciples that Lazarus was asleep, but they all knew he was dead. Christ reiterated that yes, Lazarus was dead.

Christ referred to death as sleep, which falls in line with scripture that says we sleep in the dust of the earth when we die (Daniel 12:2).

So who wakes up from the sleep of death? Everyone.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are two resurrections mentioned in scripture. They're 1,000 years apart.

We all want to be part of the first resurrection for sure.

The first resurrection happens at the last trump, when Christ returns:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice

The bible tells us that the dead do not know anything and cannot be awakened until the resurrection. The dead do not have thoughts.

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Paul refers to the sleep of death as being like the "twinkling of an eye". The next conscious thought a person will have after dying, is being awakened by Christ and looking at their Savior.

By dying Himself, Christ became the Lord of the dead (and the living). We are assured that He will come again, and take us to be where He is also.

**That's really just the tip of the iceberg, but I gotta go shower!**

 

[TrustAndObey]

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Hi Eila.

 

[Eila]

Hi Eila.

 

[TrustAndObey]

1 Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

1 Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Right now death really is our enemy. If we received the gift of heaven immediately after death, then death would definitely not be our enemy.

Even though most of Christianity reassures each other that our loved ones are in a better place, Paul tells us to comfort one another with THESE words:

1 Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (dead), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep (dead).

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There will be people still living when Christ returns, so Paul tells us that the DEAD in Christ will rise first, but the living will meet with them in the air to be with Christ.

Paul puts it like this: 1 Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed

We all sleep every night, so obviously Paul is talking about the sleep of death.

The "changed" in that verse is referring to receiving our immortality and our glorified bodies.

And remember that Christ told us He was going to prepare a place for us, and He promised to come again to receive us to Himself, to take us where He is also!

Beautiful promise!!

Christ hasn't returned every single time a person dies to receive them to Himself. We are promised a second coming, not millions of them.

That's all I have time to go into tonight.

Night all!!

 

[Cliff2]

What is the SDA view on death?

Thanks for asking.

 

[Kazamataz]

Thanks for asking.

Thats ok were you too wondering the same thing?

 

[smooze]

no he will blast you with info be ready Cliff you Da man

 

[Kazamataz]

no he will blast you with info be ready Cliff you Da man

Oh so Cliff is an SDA as well?

 

[smooze]

cliff is SDA but I think trust and obey got most of the facts. Umm I hope eveything helps GOD bless.

 

[TrustAndObey]

cliff is SDA but I think trust and obey got most of the facts. Umm I hope eveything helps GOD bless.

I'd say that what I've posted isn't even a 1/4 of the scripture that says we sleep when we die (until the resurrection).

Feel free to jump in here, because I'm not always as thorough as I could be.

Peter gave a sermon about David and let everyone know that David, even though he had a promise directly from God, was still in the grave.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

One of the best stories in scripture that illustrates what happens when we die is in Luke.

Luke 8:49 While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.

50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.

51 And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.

52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but He said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.

55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

It's like the scripture from Genesis. She was dead (asleep) and her spirit was not in her. Christ told her to rise and her spirit came again.

Her breath was given back to her, her life force, energy.

That's exactly how it will be at the last day, at the last trump, when God's true children rise first.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Job speaks of the same "change" that Paul does. When we are raised and made new, with glorified bodies and immortality.

Right now, only God has immortality.

 

[Kazamataz]

That's exactly how it will be at the last day, at the last trump, when God's true children rise first.

So what you have said makes sense and i haven't seen an argument against that in my church.

In fact I've always been taught that there is no clear cut understanding in the bible as to whether you die and go to heaven straight away or whether you die and only go to heaven once the second coming happens.

I've always been taught that it's not REALLY that important as to when you go to heaven or what goes on in heaven. Whats more important is that you get there and you take as many friends and family with you.

Saying to someone that has just lost a loved "don't worry they are in a better place now." I think is just something people say as a comfort.

It's just like when someone clearly hurts themselves the first thing you say is "oh are you alright?" when clearly you know they aren't.

It's just one of those things you say.

My only question tho would be you say above "when God's true children rise first."

Do SDA's belive they are the only ones going to heaven?

Do SDA's belive that you are the only true children of God?

 

[JonMiller]

Most don't think so, some Historical Adventists still point to the SDA church as being the remnant, rather then the remnant being found in all Christian churchs at the time of Christ's return. Adventists as a whole no longer beleive this (that we are the one remnant church), and this includes the leadership. Be that as it may, we do think that our doctrines are (mostly) correct, and feel that they are beneficial to spiritual growth, and try to spread them to others.

JM

 

[Kazamataz]

Most don't think so, some Historical Adventists still point to the SDA church as being the remnant, rather then the remnant being found in all Christian churchs at the time of Christ's return. Adventists as a whole no longer beleive this (that we are the one remnant church), and this includes the leadership. Be that as it may, we do think that our doctrines are (mostly) correct, and feel that they are beneficial to spiritual growth, and try to spread them to others.

JM

Ok so what doctrines do you have that would conflict with most christian churches?

(don't included doctrine that conflicts with the Catholic church as I feel alot of their doctrine conflicts with the Bible and the wider church as a whole.)