Some Reasons I Don't Believe in Evolution

cupid dave · Oct 24, 2011

Loudmouth
Epicurus said it best:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

brinny said:
You, sir, are entitled to your opinion. Just as i was, when i was experiencing excruciating pain and told God i hated Him amidst a river o' tears. (He has forgiven me, for He knew the extreme angst i was engulfed in). You have the freedom to express what you wish. May it bring you what you seek.

Epicurus was speaking of a different god, because the god of the Old Testament actually has the power to create evil...

Isa[bless and do not curse]45:7
I, (almighty Reality), form the light, and create darkness:[bless and do not curse]
I, (both Friend and Foe of the living), make peace, and create (the environment for great misfortune), evil:[bless and do not curse]
I, (both Friend and Foe to life and man), the LORD, (of the living), do all these things, (naturally, through the environmental forces).

MariaRegina · Oct 24, 2011

mpok1519 said:
Beast is simply a word that means "animal". Whatever biblical connotation that has been given to the word isn't reflective of objective scientific taxonomy of species.

But yes, men are "beasts" in the scientific sense since we are within the kingdom of animalia, as well are all apes.

I, for one, do not accept the "scientific sense" that we are all within the kingdom of animalia. We are above the animals because we can reason, create, and invent all kinds of gadgets which the animals cannot do.

If we say that we are beasts, then we will not be expected to act in a civilized manner, and we will act worst than the beasts, because we can act with premeditated hatred or emotion.

brinny · Oct 24, 2011

Originally Posted by brinny
i was experiencing excruciating pain and told God i hated Him amidst a river o' tears. (He has forgiven me, for He knew the extreme angst i was engulfed in).

Jazer said:
Do you think it was unjust to have experance that much pain? Was it beyond what you had earned or deserved?

It was a fiery furnace of affliction...God's "boot camp".....There was no escape, He had me hemmed in and i wanted to die.....that's why i relate to "Job" so well, and David.

it's beyond "earned" or "deserved".....it's that fiery furnace that is written about.

mpok1519 · Oct 24, 2011

MariaRegina said:
Very primitive forms of animal play.
Cats can also entertain themselves.

Cats don't make toys, however. When they play with things, its related to their hunting instincts.

However, I repeat my question, has any chimp or ape managed to create a wheel to transport things.

Well, chimps have been reported to transport materials using large leaves as blankets on which they would set their gathered materials on to drag from one location to another, saving time as opposed to carrying the materials by hand. This displays that chimps do have highly exceptional problem solving skills and creativity.

deliberately strike flint together to start a fire, and then proceed to cook food in a pan, use a potato to make a primitive battery, or design an electrical tool?

This is what separates chimpanzees and other great apes from our ancestors; Tool usage as opposed to tool creation. Using a stick to pull termites from a mound is tool use. Sharpening that stick to pierce prey is tool making.

Chimps, however, have been reported taking a rather large twig, breaking it down so that it can fit into small places; this is a form of primitive tool engineering, a sign of creative problem solving and thinking.

I honestly don't know why you would need to see a monkey build a rocket ship before you would give evolution a second thought.

"Evolution isn't true because you don't see gibbons who can build and shoot lazer cannons."

"Evolution isn't true because you don't have chimps who fly planes."

"evolution isn't true because cats aren't able to build nuclear reactors."

I really don't understand the rationale there.

We already know that animals use primitive tools such as sticks, rods, and rocks to retrieve things or smash things. Even crows drop a snail on cement or a pile of rocks and then fly down to retrieve the now smashed snail for its meal. We have seen crows dive bomb a cat, possum, or squirrel and force it back into the road with the hopes that a car will strike it, and then this crow can eat the dead animal. Premeditated murder anyone?

Well, I don't know what you're trying to say, but, yes, many animals display cognitive abilities we simply were unaware of until recent developments. Its a sign that animals do think, are creative, and can see a problem, adapt, and create a solution to the problem.

brinny · Oct 24, 2011

MariaRegina said:
Why don't you open another thread to discuss this topic? Such a question is certainly off topic to this thread. If you did create a new thread, this forum would not be the one to place such a thread as it concerns only creation and evolution.

Good point. I got side-tracked.

mpok1519 · Oct 24, 2011

brinny said:
Why would God design ANY drugs if there was no disease, frailty, imperfection? Isn't it man who, with his flawed logic, knowledge, intentions, formulates drugs? Drugs that are toxic and cause more harm than good?

Are you contending that God did not create psylocibin mushrooms, but man did? Are you contending that God did not create tobacco, the fermentation process of alcohol, the cannabis plant, etc etc? :o

mpok1519 · Oct 24, 2011

brinny said:
Before the fall, life expectancy was non-ending.

Evidence?

Because we have plenty of evidence that early humans did have a life expectancy.

Jazer · Oct 24, 2011

brinny said:
it's beyond "earned" or "deserved".....it's that fiery furnace that is written about.

So God's purpose was for you to be purified in some way? 2Cor17 "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory"

Jazer · Oct 24, 2011

mpok1519 said:
Evidence?

Because we have plenty of evidence that early humans did have a life expectancy.

What evidence do you have? If you have a skelton then you may want to look to see what the cause of death is. It is well established that a lot of sickness and disease came with people living in cities.

mpok1519 · Oct 24, 2011

MariaRegina said:
I, for one, do not accept the "scientific sense" that we are all within the kingdom of animalia.

Well, biologists, zoologists, primatologists, and anthropologists, DO classify us within the kingdom of animalia because we fit all the requirements of that taxonomy.

We are above the animals because we can reason, create, and invent all kinds of gadgets which the animals cannot do.

Some animals DO create technology. Beds, umbrellas, a stick that has been sized down to meet certain size requirements befitting the tool's functionality, even toys and art. Are you suggesting these are not reflective of a being with cognitive reason and the ability of problem solving?

I gave the example of chimps using large leaves on which they would place other materials on, and then drag the leaves, saving time and energy to transport said materials. This is not innovation? This is not advanced problem solving?

What if a gibbon built a rocket ship; you would only consider that to fall within the criteria of innovation and creative problem solving via tool use?

If we say that we are beasts, then we will not be expected to act in a civilized manner, and we will act worst than the beasts, because we can act with premeditated hatred or emotion.

Humans can drop a bomb that can kill millions of people. I'd say the beasts are much more civillized than we are, according to your logic.

Jazer · Oct 24, 2011

MariaRegina said:
Why don't you open another thread to discuss this topic?

I am only posting on this forum right now. I do not think a thread on pain would go anywhere. They would simply say that pain has a purpose to cause us to avoid things that are harmful for us. Or something to that effect.

mpok1519 · Oct 24, 2011

Jazer said:
What evidence do you have? If you have a skelton then you may want to look to see what the cause of death is. It is well established that a lot of sickness and disease came with people living in cities.

Humans died of disease before cities. Cities simply meant it was easier to become infected with disease, as it is easier for communicable diseases to infect larger numbers of people if people are populated closely together in larger numbers.

Thats just common sense.

We have skeletons from hundreds of thousands of years ago; there are even burial sites of early humans, denoting they had funerary practices.

I remember studying one skeleton of a grown male who had infections of the molars which probably had killed it. I have also studied one which died from cranial trauma. People were not ever immortal.

And-U-Say · Oct 24, 2011

Jazer said:
They would simply say that pain has a purpose to cause us to avoid things that are harmful for us. Or something to that effect.

Bingo! See how simple that was? Next.

Jazer · Oct 24, 2011

mpok1519 said:
I'd say the beasts are much more civilized than we are, according to your logic.

Except for the Wolf. A pack of wolves will hamstring a adult moose to get to her calf. They say there is no other example in nature where animals kill without reason or purpose.

Loudmouth · Oct 24, 2011

mpok1519 said:
People were not ever immortal.

My friend Colin would disagree:

brinny · Oct 24, 2011

Originally Posted by brinny
Before the fall, life expectancy was non-ending.

mpok1519 said:
Evidence?

Because we have plenty of evidence that early humans did have a life expectancy.

It is written, that man is appointed to die. Before the fall there was no death. how would one have evidence for a non-fallen state/dimension, when all that we have now is what is in a presently, fallen, decaying state? Where would this evidence come from? From what source? How does one produce evidence from an infinitely removed state than what is presently available?

brinny · Oct 24, 2011

Originally Posted by brinny
it's beyond "earned" or "deserved".....it's that fiery furnace that is written about.

Jazer said:
So God's purpose was for you to be purified in some way? 2Cor17 "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory"

Yes.

Loudmouth · Oct 24, 2011

brinny said:
how would one have evidence for a non-fallen state/dimension, when all that we have now is what is in a presently, fallen, decaying state?

What evidence did you observe that led you to these conclusions?

brinny · Oct 24, 2011

Originally Posted by brinny
how would one have evidence for a non-fallen state/dimension, when all that we have now is what is in a presently, fallen, decaying state?

Loudmouth said:
What evidence did you observe that led you to these conclusions?

In my finite, limited, flawed state, how would i see "evidence" of what was perfect? Is that possible?

Loudmouth · Oct 24, 2011

brinny said:
In my finite, limited, flawed state, how would i see "evidence" of what was perfect? Is that possible?

I am asking for the evidence that you did see in order to reach these conclusions. Or are you saying that you have no evidence of this?

Some Reasons I Don't Believe in Evolution

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