Some Questions

[Rescued One]

Does this apply to pastors?

2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

Some pastors:

Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart
Weren't they both with Assemblies of God?

Mr. Bakker is very old. I don't know about Swaggart's age. Isn't he still preaching in Louisiana? I'm wondering how people would know whether or not someone repented of sins they were secretive about.

Are there other reasons to not be a pastor?

An Eastern Orthodox suggested that priests are as human as other people. What about being an example? What about St. Nicholas?

I'm not interested in debate --- just information.

 

[Paidiske]

Are there other reasons to not be a pastor?

The primary reason to not be a pastor is that God hasn't called you to it.

An Eastern Orthodox suggested that priests are as human as other people. What about being an example? What about St. Nicholas?

We are as human as other people. I think we are an example as much in how we handle our failures, as in striving not to fail in the first place.

As for St. Nicholas; don't forget that he's famous for two things; giving gifts to the poor and hitting the heretic Arius at the Council of Nicaea.

 

[Rescued One]

The primary reason to not be a pastor is that God hasn't called you to it.

We are as human as other people. I think we are an example as much in how we handle our failures, as in striving not to fail in the first place.

As for St. Nicholas; don't forget that he's famous for two things; giving gifts to the poor and hitting the heretic Arius at the Council of Nicaea.

I'm guessing you aren't Eastern Orthodox. I still appreciate your input. I don't think priests are less human, but I think God wants them to behave as examples.

Cultists believe they are called. Sometimes people believe they are called but actually aren't.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't think priests are less human, but I think God wants them to behave as examples.

I don't disagree, and I would hope we all strive to be good examples; but we need grace in our failings as much as anybody.

Cultists believe they are called. Sometimes people believe they are called but actually aren't.

Sure. That's why churches discern and test a call. But that doesn't change my point that if God isn't calling you to it, you don't belong in the ministry.

 

[Rescued One]

I don't disagree, and I would hope we all strive to be good examples; but we need grace in our failings as much as anybody.

Sure. That's why churches discern and test a call. But that doesn't change my point that if God isn't calling you to it, you don't belong in the ministry.

I don't know what Assemby of God does or what other Protestant churches do.

 

[Paidiske]

Each church is different, and even in the same church, processes might be different in different places.

 

[Peacemaker1]

Does this apply to pastors?

2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

we are exhorted/ reminded that we have a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

the inheritance is not corruptible, that fades not away, reserved in heaven for us.


now we are in heaviness through manifold temptations,
the trial of your faith, to receive the end of our faith, even the salvation of our souls.




1 Peter 1.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 16 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




peter continues the exhortation, how he is an elder and witness of sufferings of christ, the purpose is so we receive the same crown/inheritance that fades not away.

Jesus is the chief, we are exhorted to all be humbled, to be subject to each other, so god may exalt us in his time.

resisting the devil, who is king over all children of pride, be steadfast in the faith, knowing any brothers in the world go through the same afflictions, accomplished by god, who after we have suffered a while, makes us perfect, establishes, strengthens us.


1 Peter 5.1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1 Peter 54 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

I'm wondering how people would know whether or not someone repented of sins they were secretive about.

Are there other reasons to not be a pastor?

Isaiah 9:16
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.


Jeremiah 10:21
For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the Lord: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.


Jeremiah 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Ephesians 5.11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.


Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

An Eastern Orthodox suggested that priests are as human as other people. What about being an example? What about St. Nicholas?

one foundation, one example of that foundation, there is no other foundation, no other example, no other to believe in.


1 Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Acts 4.10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[Rescued One]

we are exhorted/ reminded that we have a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

the inheritance is not corruptible, that fades not away, reserved in heaven for us.


now we are in heaviness through manifold temptations,
the trial of your faith, to receive the end of our faith, even the salvation of our souls.




1 Peter 1.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 16 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




peter continues the exhortation, how he is an elder and witness of sufferings of christ, the purpose is so we receive the same crown/inheritance that fades not away.

Jesus is the chief, we are exhorted to all be humbled, to be subject to each other, so god may exalt us in his time.

resisting the devil, who is king over all children of pride, be steadfast in the faith, knowing any brothers in the world go through the same afflictions, accomplished by god, who after we have suffered a while, makes us perfect, establishes, strengthens us.


1 Peter 5.1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1 Peter 54 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.




Isaiah 9:16
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.


Jeremiah 10:21
For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the Lord: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.


Jeremiah 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Ephesians 5.11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.


Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.



one foundation, one example of that foundation, there is no other foundation, no other example, no other to believe in.


1 Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Acts 4.10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

That's an overload of verses that don't get to the point. Is not the pastor a shepherd? Do you assume that the sheep are shepherds to the flock? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Peacemaker1]

no such thing as too many verses in a world of uncaring, wolves in sheep's clothing, and satan who comes as an angel of light, with his ministers, ( pastors) as ministers of righteousness, the end of them and their deceitful talk is, they receive according to their works.


2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[Rescued One]

no such thing as too many verses in a world of uncaring, wolves in sheep's clothing, and satan who comes as an angel of light, with his ministers, ( pastors) as ministers of righteousness, the end of them and their deceitful talk is, they receive according to their works.


2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I'm very aware of cults and Bible verses. I spent years studying the comparisons between the Bible and false doctrines after escaping from a CULT. I'm trying to find out if Christians expect pastors to be an example to the flock or is it wrong to expect that. After all many people who are living sinful lives attend church regularly for untold reasons. so my question is, does it matter whether or not the pastor sets an example? If the pastor has an anger or lust problem, should he not step down?

 

[Peacemaker1]

yes tell them by their fruits of thorns, as the wolves entered the flock after the apostles deparrted/died.




Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.