Some questions on WELS

[Studeclunker]

Sorry, WELSians, I've got issues. However, I'm just feeling... rather strangled by the 'velvet rope'.

 

[LutheranChick]

Wow. 16 weeks? I am not WELS, but am in fellowship with them. My synod, ELS, does not have a strict rule about new members and instruction. I am sure it is up to the individual pastor. My husband, who was originally Baptist, but hadn't attended church for years, got about a 6-8 week class with the Pastor. We had an older couple join, coming from an ELCA church, who were catechized (is that the proper term?) back when the church (before the big merger) was more conservative and after thorough questioning by the Pastor (privately) the Pastor determined they were doctrinally sound and in agreement with our Synod's teachings and were not required to take classes. We had another, younger, ELCA couple who joined and they took a 6-week class. (I actually sat in on that class as a refresher course for myself) Perhaps your church just has a stricter Pastor than some?

I'd probly better be quiet now, and let our WELS friends weigh in...

 

[Studeclunker]

Ah, that explains why I wasn't able to delete this thread. Sorry to all who got stung by my rant. After five months with these people and still being treated like almost non-believers, it's getting old.

Again, sorry for the rant.

Yes, sixteen weeks. The pastor also only does the classes once a year. He's explained that one of the reasons for not doing a shorter term with us is because it would offend some of his current parishoners. Also, he's in his early thirties, and may be a bit... intimidated by the elders. I've been thinking of driving another ten miles (that's nearly fifty from my house) to the church in Anderson. But I think I'll call and talk to the pastor first.

 

[LutheranChick]

I think talking to the Pastor would be a good idea. Our church is so small that our Pastor will have adult instruction whenever it needs to be done. (we don't get a lot of new members). Personally I don't understand why anyone would be offended. It should be left to the Pastor's discretion and people should trust his judgement. However, I do have first hand experience of some former members of our congregation 'having a fit' becuase they thought the Pastor should have made someone go through instruction instead of just questioning them. They made it pretty rough for the Pastor. However, he stood his ground and the Synod backed him up. It still was awful, though, the way those people reacted.

 

[Studeclunker]

I have spoken to the Pastor a number of times. He even offered to give us communion in his office, once. But he has steadfastly refused to commune us at the altar. Mostly, I think he's afraid of a confrontation with his elders and some of the parishoners.

When I said that I'd call the pastor first, I was referring to the pastor in Anderson. I'll call before travelling fifty miles to church only to find they're exactly the same.


Mt. Calvary has a truely Wonderful choir, excellent liturgical services and pastoral teaching. The congregation has many, many strengths. Once one gets past the surface though, it's a restricted membership club. I just can't picture anyone from outside the Lutheran church wanting to bother with jumping through their hoops.

 

[LutheranChick]

Well, that's really a shame. I wish you lived near our congregation- we would welcome you with open arms!

 

[Jim47]

Sorry I missed this thread Stude but whar are your questions?

 

[Studeclunker]

Sorry Jim. It was worded more like a diatribe than a list of questions. For that reason I deleted it. I tried to delete the entire thread, but someone had already responded. The following is a somewhat more polite distilation of what I was asking:

First, why do I have to wait a year before taking communion at a WELS church?

Chronology on this question; we started attending Mt. Calvary five months ago. At that time the previous pastor's classes were nearly complete. He said that none would be starting till after Lent and Easter. Quite understandable actually. He dropped the bomb two weeks ago. I'll have to wait till August and then it's a sixteen week course. That means it'll be a year before I can take first communion as a WELS member.

Does WELS follow B.O.C. in regards to communion? If so, why the sixteen week course for it? Why doesn't the pastor simply catechise me? I understand there are doctrinal and Theological differences, what do they have to do with understanding Communion?

And what IS it with that ELECTRIC spirit candle?? Ahem, sorry about that one... Well... maybe not.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

And what IS it with that ELECTRIC spirit candle?? Ahem, sorry about that one... Well... maybe not.

Not sure if this is what you are talking about, but we too have a sanctuary lamp that is electric. The insurance company won't let us have "unattended candles".

 

[BigNorsk]

Sorry Jim. It was worded more like a diatribe than a list of questions. For that reason I deleted it. I tried to delete the entire thread, but someone had already responded. The following is a somewhat more polite distilation of what I was asking:

First, why do I have to wait a year before taking communion at a WELS church?

Chronology on this question; we started attending Mt. Calvary five months ago. At that time the previous pastor's classes were nearly complete. He said that none would be starting till after Lent and Easter. Quite understandable actually. He dropped the bomb two weeks ago. I'll have to wait till August and then it's a sixteen week course. That means it'll be a year before I can take first communion as a WELS member.

Does WELS follow B.O.C. in regards to communion? If so, why the sixteen week course for it? Why doesn't the pastor simply catechise me? I understand there are doctrinal and Theological differences, what do they have to do with understanding Communion?

And what IS it with that ELECTRIC spirit candle?? Ahem, sorry about that one... Well... maybe not.

I can sure see where that is frustrating.

Does the WELS follow the BOC in regards to communion? Well, that's quite a question. They basically require complete agreement for communion. Believing correctly about Communion and even most doctrines including all the fundamentals is not enough.

From their website, they answer who may commune:

Under ordinarily circumstances only communicant members of WELS and ELS churches or another church in fellowship with us may commune. Communicants must have faith in Christ, recognize Christ's body and blood, be able to examine themselves, be repentent, and be united in doctrine.

It's that united in doctrine that is often the sticking point, plus you aren't currently a member, and won't be until after the class.

Marv

 

[Jim47]

Stude, there is nothing wrong with your questions. I can see that you are frustrated by not being able to take part in Holy Communion, but as important as Holy Communion is, it is also important that you fully understand all the WELS teachings and why.

Your zeal to take part in The Lord's body and blood speaks well of your faith, and I can assure you that The Lord will sustain you through this, just submit to Hiw will and endure the time needed to be fully instructed and then make a confession of faith that agrees with what the WELS teaches.

In the mean time take part in the services and bible studies. You will be strengthed through them and the hearing of God's word.

Feel free to PM me if you need more.

 

[Studeclunker]

I'm sorry to hear WELS is such a closed club. It's really doubtful that I'll continue with them. What I'm going to do, I don't quite know.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

I'm sorry to hear WELS is such a closed club. It's really doubtful that I'll continue with them. What I'm going to do, I don't quite know.

If you're traveling an hour away to find a WELS church I'm pretty sure there is a nice liturgical LCMS church that's just as close. Not being able to become catechized and receive the body and blood of our Lord for a year not due to proper understanding but tradition. That's legalism. Firstly, I would write to your District President asking if there is a liturgical Lutheran church around your area. Tell him your beefs with your old contemporary church, and ask what he can do. These people get paid a lot of money to help the church. Take advantage of this! Good Luck

 

[Jim47]

Not being able to become catechized and receive the body and blood of our Lord for a year not due to proper understanding but tradition. That's legalism.

I think your calling the WELS legalism is quite a nasty statement. How would you like it if I said something similiar to that about the LCMS?

You should be a little bit ashamed in my eyes.

 

[dinkime]

I'm sorry to hear WELS is such a closed club. It's really doubtful that I'll continue with them. What I'm going to do, I don't quite know.

then any church that practices close communion is a "closed club" so make sure to avoid the LCMS (or at least their churches that follow what they say is their doctrine)

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

I think your calling the WELS legalism is quite a nasty statement. How would you like it if I said something similiar to that about the LCMS?

You should be a little bit ashamed in my eyes.

I wasn't calling the whole Synod and all of its theology legalistic. I was saying that the policy of not allowing a learned Lutheran a year to partake of the Sacrament legalism. It does not take a year to learn the differences between LCMS and WELS, more like a day. I would think that if a WELS member tried to join an LCMS Church there would be a very short period of catechisis. Hopefully the practice that Stude has encountered is just contained to this lone WELS congregation, because if it is not I can see how the LCMS and WELS could never be in altar and pulpit fellowship.

 

[Jim47]

I wasn't calling the whole Synod and all of its theology legalistic. I was saying that the policy of not allowing a learned Lutheran a year to partake of the Sacrament legalism. It does not take a year to learn the differences between LCMS and WELS, more like a day. I would think that if a WELS member tried to join an LCMS Church there would be a very short period of catechisis. Hopefully the practice that Stude has encountered is just contained to this lone WELS congregation, because if it is not I can see how the LCMS and WELS could never be in altar and pulpit fellowship.

You are quite wrong, it takes a lot of study to understand the differences and why. I've been through a couple of different classses. I do thouroughly believe in what the WELS teaches and scripture supports it all, that is scripture provong scripture.

I find your arrogance a little freightening. I've never known Lutherans to be this way. I could say much about the LCMS, but I refrain from doing so, instead I try to teach by example.

Perhaps its time for you to bow out of this thread? You have already broken rules within this forum and have failed to make any effort at an appology.

 

[Jim47]

I'm sorry to hear WELS is such a closed club. It's really doubtful that I'll continue with them. What I'm going to do, I don't quite know.

Stude, when did Jesus ever day that the straight and narrow were easy? Believe me I understand your frustration, but instruction classes for a former LCMS member are in the eyes of the WELS Pastor just as important as classes for a Baptist or unbeleiver.

I know your faith is in order and you have a great love for our Savior, is a year too long to wait for something this important? You must have had good reasons for going to the WELS in the first place, take the strength that God gives you and follow His direction.

 

[Studeclunker]

Well... Jim, it is legalism and the LCMS, as well as most other denoms, is just as guilty. Besides, legalism isn't always a bad thing. Like all things in due moderation, a little is good to keep order and the flock on the right path. However, the fellow has a good point in my opinion. I have no problem at all in taking a class with the Pastor on the differences between WELS and LCMS. I agree that it's a good idea. It's the length, waiting period, and extent, that I disagree with. Still, since these people are the only act in town, I'll probably have to jump through whatever hoops they put up. Perhaps it's yet another lesson from the Lord in humility.

And, yes Hawkeye, they are the ONLY congregations within a hundred miles of me. I have a choice of three ELCA congregations (one seventeen miles away in Weaverville), one LCMS, and two WELS. There's a Lutheran Congregation in Shasta city (a hundred miles), another in Red Bluff(a hundred miles), and one in Eureka (a hundred seventy miles). I live in a rather rural and lightly populated area. The whole county doesn't even have twenty thousand people.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Well... Jim, it is legalism and the LCMS, as well as most other denoms, is just as guilty. Besides, legalism isn't always a bad thing. Like all things in due moderation, a little is good to keep order and the flock on the right path. However, the fellow has a good point in my opinion. I have no problem at all in taking a class with the Pastor on the differences between WELS and LCMS. I agree that it's a good idea. It's the length, waiting period, and extent, that I disagree with. Still, since these people are the only act in town, I'll probably have to jump through whatever hoops they put up. Perhaps it's yet another lesson from the Lord in humility.

And, yes Hawkeye, they are the ONLY congregations within a hundred miles of me. I have a choice of three ELCA congregations (one seventeen miles away in Weaverville), one LCMS, and two WELS. There's a Lutheran Congregation in Shasta city (a hundred miles), another in Red Bluff(a hundred miles), and one in Eureka (a hundred seventy miles). I live in a rather rural and lightly populated area. The whole county doesn't even have twenty thousand people.

I live in a county with less than twenty thousand people and it has 5 LCMS churches. Go Iowa! Hehe.