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I_are_sceptical

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ChristianCenturion said:
I can't see how one could believe what I researched on that link before.
Okay, and if I can't see that Christian beliefs are correct does that mean Jesus' claims are false?

how can someone consider Jesus Christ a prophet and ignore who Jesus said He was?
Which link did you get your information from? This is not what the Baha'i Faith teaches about Jesus.

Abraham is part of your religion, isn't he? Did he act only after God laid out the full plan and details or in your religion, is Abraham credited with faith and actions based on that faith?
In the Baha'i Faith, Abraham is considered to be equal to Jesus in every respect. Therefore, He probably DID know the full plan and details, and His faith in God was complete and unshakable.


God.

I have changed my opinion to match Jesus many times and it has always rewarded me and increased my faith.
Okay, if my studies show me that God has sent a new Revelation, the Baha'i Faith, and Christians say God has not, should I obey God or the Christians?

If 'Abdu'l-Baha's teachings do not seem to make sense, but they are what God wants me to believe, should I change my opinions and believe 'Abdu'l-Baha?
 
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lunamoth

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Hi Ias,

Well, either you are just playing a game of 'give Christians a taste of their own medicine' (as you see it) or else you really do have some discomfort about the Baha'i teachings concerning Christianity. If you have questions I will do my best to answer them for you since I am familiar with the Baha'i writings and perspective and have come through that myself.

Forgive me for being unclear about your precise questions. Perhaps you could state one again for me?

peace,
lunamoth
 
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I_are_sceptical

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lunamoth said:
Either you are just playing a game of 'give Christians a taste of their own medicine' (as you see it) or else you really do have some discomfort about the Baha'i teachings concerning Christianity.
Neither one. My questions are directed only to those Christians who are trying to convince me that the Baha'i Faith is false. I want them to show me evidence that God agrees with them.

If they can prove their position to my complete satisfaction I will give up Baha'u'llah. But that would take months or even years of rigorous discussion. No Christian has wanted to do that. They expect me to believe whatever words come out of their mouths. They seem to be unable to understand that I believe something different from what they believe. They think that I am in a philosophical vacuum, open to the next idea that comes along, and quoting half a dozen Bible verses will be sufficient to cause me to abandon my religion. And they get upset when that does not happen.

You stated in an earlier post that I should remain a Baha'i. I'm not sure anyone who feels that way would be able to understand my questions. But -- If I am trying to determine which faith I should accept as God's Will for my life, why is it that Christians tell me I should ignore everything Baha'u'llah says while making that decision? Shouldn't I give His claims a fair and equal hearing? Would any Christian think it was proper to ignore the New Testament and then reject Jesus?
 
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I_are_sceptical

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I don't think Angel4Truth will be back here, but I will respond to a couple of things anyway.

Angel4Truth said:
I posted relevant scriptures from the qu'ran and the bible that show islam and christianity are not compatible .
My belief that both Christianity and Islam are from God has nothing to do with the compatibility of a few verses selected by a non-Baha'i, so how have you proved that?

Whats to interpret? It specifically states that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father . Do you need interpretation for only way? Its an exclusive claim .
1. Baha'u'llah claims to BE Jesus Christ, and since I am fully convinced His claim is true, I do not see any conflict between belief in Jesus and Baha'u'llah.

2. Did Jesus specifically say that He meant the Baha'i Faith is false? Yes or no? If He did not, then your assertion is based on your own personal opinion, not the words of Jesus. Shouldn't I follow Jesus? If I should, please show me evidence that He wants me to believe what you say He wants me to believe.

they all seem to want to hijack Christ into their teachings , you know why? Because Christ is the truth , so they all want to jump on his coatails but ignore what He did and said and write their own gospels .
The Baha'i Faith began in an Islamic background, not a Christian one. The earliest Scriptures were written to an Islamic audience. It would have made no sense to "hijack Jesus". The first disciples wouldn't have cared if the Babi-Baha'i Faith was or was not compatible with Christianity.

Furthermore, if someone said the Gospels were written to "hijack Moses" and "jump on His coattails", would you start thinking Christianity is false?

anyone can see they are not compatible .
"Anyone"? I can see Their compatibility very well. It was this doctrine that first got me curious to investigate the Baha'i Faith further. The Baha'i teaching on the oneness of religion made more sense than what I had been hearing in church.

They contradict the bible , hence cannot be the fulfillment of such .
If the Jews say that Christianity contradicts the Bible, and therefore cannot be the fulfillment of Judaism, will you give up Jesus and join the Jewish religion?

Your prophet cannot show fulfillments of the bible .

neither of the 2 bahai prophets fulfill one word of the Holy Bible where the knowledge of Jesus Christ comes from .
The Baha'i Faith clearly teaches that Baha'u'llah HAS fulfilled the Bible, so I would like to know which book or website you got this idea from.

the biggest issue that causes bahai to show itself as false and thats the claim itself that all religions are compatible .
The Baha'i Faith does not teach that this shows that the Baha'i Faith is false, so again I would like to know the title of the book or the address of the website from where you are getting these ideas.

Ba'hai teaches that ALL religions are true - even though all religions are not compatible in any way . Thats like saying all numbers = 100.
The Baha'i Faith teaches that God loves all the people of the world and has sent them guidance. It does not teach that every single doctrine of these religions are compatible. Your statement shows a lack of understanding of Baha'i teaching, therefore I am not confident that you are qualified to guide me spiritually.

The bible is clear that there will be false teachers and false prophets after Christ
Yes, It does, but nowhere in the entire Bible is there evidence that these warnings are meant to include Baha'u'llah. That is an interpretation given by fallible human beings. Please quote a verse that says "1800 years after the Messiah/Jesus, there will be a false prophet from Persia who calls himself the Glory of God."

1800 years, Persia, Glory of God. That is specific. I will accept that, not "There will be false Christs, just take my word for it that God means the Baha'i Faith."

The bible also speaks of an unholy combination of all churches into one world church in revelation .
The Book of Revelation also teaches that after Jesus Returns and is ruling the world, there will be only one religion - the true one. Right? The Baha'i Faith is not attempting to combine churches, we want to establish a single religious system that all the people on Earth will belong to. Therefore according to the Bible the Baha'i Faith is Christ, not anti-Christ.

For your sake , i wish you would follow the real Jesus Christ
Please show me some evidence that Baha'u'llah is NOT the real Jesus Christ.

what ive given you isnt my "opinion" its truth .
I disagree.

i wouldnt waste peoples time if i were you asking for answers then getting upset when you get them .

I Actually , have answered you ,
If Christians want me to give up my religion they will have to prove to my entire satisfaction that they are right and Baha'u'llah is wrong. And as for "answers", we aren't even close to dealing with a single one of the issues with which I am concerned.

seems to me that you wish to be able to lead this discussion
That's correct, I do. It's MY eternal soul at stake here!



If someone who was hostile to Jesus' claims wrote a book explaining his views, would you ignore everything the New Testament says and reject Jesus because of that book?

Do you think it would be a good idea or a bad idea to read through the Baha'i Scriptures with an open mind and a humble heart, willing to consider the possibility that God has sent a new Revelation?
 
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ChristianCenturion

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I_are_sceptical said:
Do you think it would be a good idea or a bad idea to read through the Baha'i Scriptures with an open mind and a humble heart, willing to consider the possibility that God has sent a new Revelation?

As to my other post, I got my information from this site: http://www.bahai.org/faq
Which I listed in this post:
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=17647327&postcount=27
But you may have not seen it.

I also can't see anything that would justify equating Jesus Christ lower to Abraham nor do I see how one could mix Jewish and Islam religion when each declares a conflicted stance regarding Isaac and Ishmael and separates further from there.

IMO, if this was initiated to get Christians to become interested in learning about Baha'i teaching, that would indicate to me insincerity, deception, contradicting the Baha'i position on proselytizing, and not to mention violating CF rules regarding promotion of another religion (albeit in subtle fashion).
I hope that my intuition is in error regarding this.

As to your questions and considering how this thread has progressed. Consider me open for any questions you have, but I will insist on different conditions. That you PM me one at a time and I will try to answer them. As for publicly making a challenge and doing this in public fashion where you get to pick and choose what you respond to, I see this as counter productive to any sincere seeking one may have. If it requires years of discussion and questions answered, so be it, you now have a source that you can ask.

Shalom
 
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lunamoth

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Hi Ias, well, OK. I am not going to try to convince you that the Baha'i Faith is false. I was just offering to answer your questions about Christianity and your search for Truth. So, in answer to the questions I see above, 1. If the Baha'i teachings are from God as He revealed himself in the Bible, and it is God's living and Holy Word, then the Bible should be sufficient for testing any further claims of Revelation. My best guess is that Christians are wary of those things that contadict the teachings of the Bible. It also seems to me that they are pointing out to you the scripture seen as contradictory. Only makes sense to me. 2. Well, if you are testing whether Baha'u'llah is the reurn of Christ as He claims, of course you need to give His claims a fair hearing. 3. No, a Christian would not ignore the NT and reject Jesus.

What I am wondering, what caught my attention to this thread, is what criteria are you using to test Baha'u'llah's claim? Both the Bible and Baha'i writings give guidance in this and I'm wondering if this is what you are relying upon. But, I am not familiar with CF so perhaps you are following a CoC that prevents you from discussing this.

I'll bow out because it seems you are right, this thread is not directed to such as myself, but I will also extend the offer to answer any questions you have by PM.

Best wishes in your search,
lunamoth
 
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I_are_sceptical

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lunamoth said:
Hi Ias, well, OK. I am not going to try to convince you that the Baha'i Faith is false. I was just offering to answer your questions about Christianity and your search for Truth.
Thank you very much.

I have follow-up questions to each of these, but if you are not deperately trying to convert me I won't ask.

What I am wondering, what caught my attention to this thread, is what criteria are you using to test Baha'u'llah's claim?
When I first began questioning if I should be a Baha'i, I knew that the Baha'i Faith claimed Jesus was a Manifestation of God, while Christians said He is fully God. So I read the Gospels to see who Jesus Himself agreed with.

But what criteria am I using now? I want to ask someone how Baha'u'llah's claims would stand up if they were subjected to the same tests Christians feel should be used to evaluate Jesus' claims. However, no discussion I have had with a Christian has progressed to that point.

Both the Bible and Baha'i writings give guidance in this and I'm wondering if this is what you are relying upon. But, I am not familiar with CF so perhaps you are following a CoC that prevents you from discussing this.
Back in the 1970s and 80s I compared both Scriptures, plus I read Christian books on apologetics, to see what Christians believed and why they believed it, and books on cults, to see how Christians said I should discern what was false..

I will also extend the offer to answer any questions you have by PM.
Okay, thank you.
 
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