Some questions for you all and my story...

TexasGirl06 · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes...

My friend, something is triggering you to defend, defend, defend.....the homosexuality issue.

I pray that the Holy Spirit is convicting you. By that, I mean..... I pray that God is trying to tell you that something is not right.

I am not attacking you. Please know that.

I just know how much God loves you. He wants you to be in a right relationship with him.

He did not make a man to go inside a man's body. He made man to go into a woman. It is a perfect fit. A design by God.

He formed Adam, and then He made Eve.

Know that I am praying for you...and that even though I do not know you personally, I do care about you.

Very Respectfully posted,

TexasGirl06

Chris Norwood · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes said:
I can see, touch, hear, smell, and taste the person I am in love with. Love is a feeling, like being sad or angry, and it comes about from things that happen in life. So I feel that I've felt love in my life. It all makes sense, because I went through falling in love with Paul and their were reasons why this happened. Their is actual, physical proof of this. Comparing the existence of love to the existence of god doesn't really work.

The person you love exists, of course, but do you see, touch, hear, smell, or taste love itself? How do you really know for sure that they love you (rather than some other motivation) other than your faith in them and a belief in love itself?

God is a person who created you and caused you to be able to experience the things that happen in your life. There is also a need inside you to relate to God, and that's why you find yourself here on a Christian message board discussing God and faith with Christians. You are seeking something, and that something is a relationship with God... otherwise why would you care so much about coming here and defending your beliefs and your lifestyle to people you don't even know.

I know that God exists because I see Him working in me and through me, I feel Him and His love in my pain and in my joy. He is as real as those we can see and touch, and I pray that you let his love touch your heart because that's why He created you in the first place.

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

TexasGirl06 said:
WayneHughes...

My friend, something is triggering you to defend, defend, defend.....the homosexuality issue.

I pray that the Holy Spirit is convicting you. By that, I mean..... I pray that God is trying to tell you that something is not right.

I am not attacking you. Please know that.

I just know how much God loves you. He wants you to be in a right relationship with him.

He did not make a man to go inside a man's body. He made man to go into a woman. It is a perfect fit. A design by God.

He formed Adam, and then He made Eve.

Know that I am praying for you...and that even though I do not know you personally, I do care about you.

Very Respectfully posted,

TexasGirl06

What's your opinion about the two essays I quoted on the NT and homosexuality?

tapero · Apr 7, 2006

Where are your essays Wayne?

oops never mind, i see it..

tapero · Apr 7, 2006

The bible says what it says. It can not be altered. God has made it clear in the old and new testament that homosexuality, a man having sex with a man is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

Chris Norwood said:
The person you love exists, of course, but do you see, touch, hear, smell, or taste love itself? How do you really know for sure that they love you (rather than some other motivation) other than your faith in them and a belief in love itself?

You can only feel love, but the reasons why I love are physically there in my life. You can say you feel God, but the reason why is not a physical, real reason with logic behind it.

God is a person who created you and caused you to be able to experience the things that happen in your life. There is also a need inside you to relate to God, and that's why you find yourself here on a Christian message board discussing God and faith with Christians. You are seeking something, and that something is a relationship with God... otherwise why would you care so much about coming here and defending your beliefs and your lifestyle to people you don't even know.

I'm seeking the truth, but in no way am I closing the door on spirituality or religion in my heart.

I know that God exists because I see Him working in me and through me, I feel Him and His love in my pain and in my joy. He is as real as those we can see and touch, and I pray that you let his love touch your heart because that's why He created you in the first place.

You realize that the God you feel inside your heart could just be yourself attaching those feelings of love to the God that you've only created in your mind? The possiblility exists, that any presence of God you've felt is only contained within yourself and not a presence of a God outside of yourself or a God of the universe. What if you just made it all up, because that's what you've been told is real?

tapero · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes said:
You realize that the God you feel inside your heart could just be yourself attaching those feelings of love to the God that you've only created in your mind? The possiblility exists, that any presence of God you've felt is only contained within yourself and not a presence of a God outside of yourself or a God of the universe. What if you just made it all up, because that's what you've been told is real?

It's not something we are told. It's something we know.

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

tapero said:
The bible says what it says. It can not be altered. God has made it clear in the old and new testament that homosexuality, a man having sex with a man is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22

The essays are not about altering the Bible, it's about the new testament being misinterpreted over hundreds of years through inaccurate translation.

tapero · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes said:
The essays are not about altering the Bible, it's about the new testament being misinterpreted over hundreds of years through inaccurate translation.

What do they say about the OT?

God is clear, For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife.

Many people come up with excuses why not to believe the scriptures. God loves you, but he hates the sin. He hates all sin, but the sin of the body seems to cause more damage to ourselves than most of the other sins.

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

tapero said:
It's not something we are told. It's something we know.

You have to be told something before you know it. Are you suggesting that you know for sure God exists? If so, please provide the proof of this.

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

tapero said:
What do they say about the OT?

God is clear, For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife.

Many people come up with excuses why not to believe the scriptures. God loves you, but he hates the sin. He hates all sin, but the sin of the body seems to cause more damage to ourselves than most of the other sins.

Many sins in the OT are not considered sins anymore right? Like eating meat, etc.

And I thought all sins were equal, so why would ones of the body be more sinful?

tapero · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes said:
You have to be told something before you know it. Are you suggesting that you know for sure God exists? If so, please provide the proof of this.

I cried out to God and He was there. I had never thought of God before; perhaps as a child, and always made fun of people who believed in God. After crying out to God, I heard the gospel; which by now you must know well, and my eyes were opened. I immediately knew that God was true and real. You can't know this when one is spiritually dead. It only comes by faith. It doesn't matter that if anyone speaks. I showed you Romans 1 where God says man is without excuse for he made the world and all creation testifies to him.

Tapero

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

tapero said:
I cried out to God and He was there. I had never thought of God before; perhaps as a child, and always made fun of people who believed in God. After crying out to God, I heard the gospel; which by now you must know well, and my eyes were opened. I immediately knew that God was true and real. You can't know this when one is spiritually dead. It only comes by faith. It doesn't matter that if anyone speaks. I showed you Romans 1 where God says man is without excuse for he made the world and all creation testifies to him.

Tapero

Truely I am glad you have found something so powerful in your life.

I don't understand how faith can come before the proof. Do you agree that one must form their opinions objectively and logically?

tapero · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes said:
Truely I am glad you have found something so powerful in your life.

Thank you!

I don't understand how faith can come before the proof. Do you agree that one must form their opinions objectively and logically?

I think for some people they must form their opinions objectively and logically, but it isn't like that for all people. This is your case I take it. I believed and my whole world changed. I didn't know anything about the bible before I believed, except Christ, and Him crucified and resurrected, but I was called by God.

There are many like you who have to touch the wounds (so to speak) to believe, and yet they can come to Christ without touching his wounds.

Many who have to overcome many things to believe in a God we can't see or touch.

But many do.

Remember doubting Thomas had to touch the wounds before he believed it was Jesus resurrected.

Tapero

starflyer59 · Apr 7, 2006

There is also evidence for several other beliefs being true.

Of course there is, it's up to you to figure out which one makes the most senes to you. I've studied many different beliefs to try and make senes of that, there are many reasons I prefer christianity. When you ignore people trying to influence you one way or the other, and just focus strictly on the teachings of the belief itself, I found the teachings of Christ to be the least self-centered teaching. In fact I found pretty much every other belief to be self-centered at it's core which doesn't appeal to me. I don't believe selfishness is the way to enlightenment, however it's up to you to explore and discover for yourself what's right for you.

The world being complex isn't proof that theirs a creator. Why do people always come to this conclusion? Maybe it's because they can't comprehend the complexity of the world, but saying a creator HAS to be behind it to be that was is in no way proof or even logical.

It's not proof, but as I said the only real options we have is the universe was created or it was not. The complexity of the universe should give the benefit to the idea the universe was created. It's not saying it's the only available explanation but I believe it is in fact the most logical.

I am truely glad for you in that you've found something so inspiring in your life.

Thanks.

I can see, touch, hear, smell, and taste the person I am in love with. Love is a feeling, like being sad or angry, and it comes about from things that happen in life. So I feel that I've felt love in my life. It all makes sense, because I went through falling in love with Paul and their were reasons why this happened. Their is actual, physical proof of this. Comparing the existence of love to the existence of god doesn't really work.

I agree love is a feeling but it's also work. I still believe the bible gives us the most beautiful definition of love we have. But if love is a feeling it's not too hard to imagine we can also feel God's love.

If you are very caught up on the idea of physical proof you're not going to get very far with God. Why? God is not a physical being. Anyone looking for physical proof of a spiritual being is already looking in the wrong direction and they are pretty much wasting their time. I honestly don't believe discussion goes very far in convincing people of these things, it ususally takes life experiences to convince someone there is more than just what they can see and hear.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

tapero said:
I think for some people they must form their opinions objectively and logically, but it isn't like that for all people.

I think it's always necessary to look at things objectively and decide for yourself what is true or how you feel.

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

starflyer59 said:
I agree love is a feeling but it's also work. I still believe the bible gives us the most beautiful definition of love we have. But if love is a feeling it's not too hard to imagine we can also feel God's love.

If you are very caught up on the idea of physical proof you're not going to get very far with God. Why? God is not a physical being. Anyone looking for physical proof of a spiritual being is already looking in the wrong direction and they are pretty much wasting their time. I honestly don't believe discussion goes very far in convincing people of these things, it ususally takes life experiences to convince someone there is more than just what they can see and hear.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

I logically know why I feel love towards my partner, I have experienced falling in love with the man. Every step of the way, he was right there in front of me. The love people think they feel from God could be a feeling within themselves that they are creating and just think it's an external God. We really don't know, but the possibility is definietly there.

tapero · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes said:
I think it's always necessary to look at things objectively and decide for yourself what is true or how you feel.

There are different personality types. Some must have facts. Some do not need facts. I believed by faith, not needing the facts except that Christ died for my sins and was raised, so I will be raised. I do believe it's a fact those things but at the time simply believed it.

The reason I can say there are different personality types is because I've seen this language before that you put forth, and I know what I am like. I know what others are like. Not all seek objective, logical reasonings to come to Christ.

But that is your personality; there is nothing wrong with that at all. It's a good thing.

But we do search the scriptures after we come to Christ, and things fall into place, or cause many many more questions too. They all lead to Christ.

Tapero

starflyer59 · Apr 7, 2006

WayneHughes said:
I logically know why I feel love towards my partner, I have experienced falling in love with the man. Every step of the way, he was right there in front of me. The love people think they feel from God could be a feeling within themselves that they are creating and just think it's an external God. We really don't know, but the possibility is definietly there.

Yes this is true, it was something that made it very difficult for me to believe in God for a long time because I never knew for sure if what I was feeling was real or just me wanting to believe in something. Then one I day I realized I wasn't really doing anything for God, I expected God to do all the work, I expected God to all the convincing which isn't right. God has no burden to prove Himself to us, He has given us life and he has given you the love you have with your partner or your family or your friends. Everything good we have we owe to God.

God has died on the cross, not because He had to or because it was the only way, He did it because that way He could really know what it was to go through the pain we go through in our lives. He did that to be closer to us. And yet we still expect Him to do all the work, we sit back with our arms folded and say I don't see any proof what have you ever done for me? In that way we are like spoiled children who are rejecting our parents because they didn't get us the toys we wanted for christmas.

When I started doing the things I knew God wanted me to through reading the bible and putting aside my selfish pride, everything changed because the way God revealed Himself was very different from the experiences I had before. This was something I did not doubt was God's presence, and it changed my life. Now if you are in fact searching for God, I believe it's worth searching for Him in this way, if this search is so important to you are you being fair to yourself by not really giving God a chance?

If you expect Him to walk out the door and say "Here I am!" You're wasting your time because it won't happen. If anything God's going to teach you he's real by bringing great pain into your life because sometimes that the only way people will give Him a chance.

WayneHughes · Apr 7, 2006

tapero said:
There are different personality types. Some must have facts. Some do not need facts. I believed by faith, not needing the facts except that Christ died for my sins and was raised, so I will be raised. I do believe it's a fact those things but at the time simply believed it.

You don't have the proof that Christ dies for your sins and was raised.

The reason I can say there are different personality types is because I've seen this language before that you put forth, and I know what I am like. I know what others are like. Not all seek objective, logical reasonings to come to Christ.

They should seek that IMO.

Some questions for you all and my story...

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