Some questions about SDA theology

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

Hey all,
In advance, I'd like to thank you for reading my thread.

About 8 years or so ago, I lived in central OH with my family, and while there, my family and I became very good friends with people from the SDA community. My older sister attended an SDA school, we went to the SDA headquarters for a camp type thing, and we developed pretty strong connections with the SDA community while not actually becoming members.

One of my SDA friends who I often hung out with told me multiple times that if my diet wasn't clean (if I ate pork, etc) then I would go to hell. He believed that the fact that I attended church on Sunday rather than Saturday would send me to hell because I was not honoring the true Sabbath. He also talked about some sort of significance of the archangel Michael pretty much elevating his status above that of an angel to some sort of deity (this one confused me greatly; I mean, seriously, Michael? That just seems like the most random theological belief ever).

Are his statements accurate, and do SDAs really believe what he said they believe, or was he misrepresenting or just childishly misinformed. He was 15 or so at the time, and I wouldn't trust any 15 year old to accurately represent their parents' or church's theology.

Thanks!

 

[JonMiller]

I and many other SDAs don't think that worshiping God on sunday is a sin, nor that eating pork is a sin, some seem to think so, however.

Jon Miller

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

I and many other SDAs don't think that worshiping God on sunday is a sin, nor that eating pork is a sin, some seem to think so, however.

Jon Miller

So it's not something not really specified in SDA theology? A SDA can believe either which way and still be a SDA?

 

[OntheDL]

Hey all,
In advance, I'd like to thank you for reading my thread.

About 8 years or so ago, I lived in central OH with my family, and while there, my family and I became very good friends with people from the SDA community. My older sister attended an SDA school, we went to the SDA headquarters for a camp type thing, and we developed pretty strong connections with the SDA community while not actually becoming members.

One of my SDA friends who I often hung out with told me multiple times that if my diet wasn't clean (if I ate pork, etc) then I would go to hell. He believed that the fact that I attended church on Sunday rather than Saturday would send me to hell because I was not honoring the true Sabbath. He also talked about some sort of significance of the archangel Michael pretty much elevating his status above that of an angel to some sort of deity (this one confused me greatly; I mean, seriously, Michael? That just seems like the most random theological belief ever).

Are his statements accurate, and do SDAs really believe what he said they believe, or was he misrepresenting or just childishly misinformed. He was 15 or so at the time, and I wouldn't trust any 15 year old to accurately represent their parents' or church's theology.

Thanks!

Hi,

Some of your questions require longer explanation than others. But I will try my best...

1. about health and diet issue.
Pork and seafood are defined in the bible as unclean meat. Some will tell you the dietary law only applies to the Jews. However adventists follow the principles because of health reasons. For example, eating pork can give you trichinosis. Just because people eat them, it doesn't mean it's good for you. The same season people don't (normally) eat cats and dogs. Because God didn't make every animal to be our food. The bible says we should take care of our bodies because it's the temple of the holy spirit.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 1 Cor 10:31

2. about the 7th day sabbath.
Saturday (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown) is the biblical 7th day Sabbath. The sabbath was hallowed by God at creation to commemorate it. God commands us to keep the Sabbath holy. We believe we should worship God every day of the week. But there is only day of the week God asks to keep holy (refrain from secular work and personal pleasure). That's the 7th day sabbath. It's less about which day of the week, but more about who do you obey. I have literatures from Catholic and every major Protestant denomination confessing that there is no scriptural authority in making Sunday the day of worship instead of Saturday. It's merely a human tradition.

So who do you obey: God or men?

3. about the Michael the Archangel...
There have been discussions here on this topic. Considering the time and space required, I'll not attempt to explain it here again. Here is a link you can check out for yourself.
http://www.biblelight.net/michael.htm

So the answers to your first two questions hinge on obedience rather than legality. In another word, there is no doubt we are saved by grace not by keeping the law. But the law is the standard of our Christian conduct. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments, John 14:15. Love is the motive behind the obedience.

I hope this will answer your questions. Feel free to ask should you have more specifics.

 

[Your Neighbor]

if my diet wasn't clean (if I ate pork, etc) then I would go to ...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah 66:16-17;&version=9;

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=6&verse=46&version=9&context=verse

 

[Your Neighbor]

He believed that the fact that I attended church on Sunday rather than Saturday would send me to hell because I was not honoring the true Sabbath.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark 7:7-8;&version=9;

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=6&verse=46&version=9&context=verse

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

Thanks for the responses and clarifications. You guys answered my questions.

 

[mva1985]

Hey all,
In advance, I'd like to thank you for reading my thread.

About 8 years or so ago, I lived in central OH with my family, and while there, my family and I became very good friends with people from the SDA community. My older sister attended an SDA school, we went to the SDA headquarters for a camp type thing, and we developed pretty strong connections with the SDA community while not actually becoming members.

One of my SDA friends who I often hung out with told me multiple times that if my diet wasn't clean (if I ate pork, etc) then I would go to hell. He believed that the fact that I attended church on Sunday rather than Saturday would send me to hell because I was not honoring the true Sabbath. He also talked about some sort of significance of the archangel Michael pretty much elevating his status above that of an angel to some sort of deity (this one confused me greatly; I mean, seriously, Michael? That just seems like the most random theological belief ever).

Are his statements accurate, and do SDAs really believe what he said they believe, or was he misrepresenting or just childishly misinformed. He was 15 or so at the time, and I wouldn't trust any 15 year old to accurately represent their parents' or church's theology.

Thanks!

dsrohe,

I am in the area you describe. And have gone to several camp meetings over the years maybe we have run into each other.

No, Adventists do not believe that you are automatically condemned to hell for going to church on Sunday or for eating unclean meats.

First, you would need to study those things out for yourself and be fully convinced in you mind what God would have you to do.

As long as you are prayerfully searching with an open teachable heart God will lead you.

Don't get me wrong I am glad that you have had some exposure to the SDA church and I certainly hope you have had some positive experiences from that.

Shoot me a PM some time if you want since we live practically in the same area.

 

[mva1985]

I and many other SDAs don't think that worshiping God on sunday is a sin, nor that eating pork is a sin, some seem to think so, however.

Jon Miller

So it's not something not really specified in SDA theology? A SDA can believe either which way and still be a SDA?

Before a pastor would baptize you into the Adventist church you would go through a series of Bible studies that would cover these very topics.

In the end before baptism you would be convinced for or against these very questions that you ask, and would need to make a decision.

Adventist members do go to church on Saturday and we do only eat clean meats for those of us who eat meat.

 

[JonMiller]

I go to church on the Sabbath and try to keep it holy, that doesn't mean that I think I must go to church on the Sabbath, nor that I think that going to church on Sunday is a sin. If I were to move to an area with no adventist church I wished to attend, I would go to Sunday churches. I don't know where so many adventists get this view that worshiping on Sunday is a sin.

Similarly, I don't choose to eat meat at all. However, this doesn't mean that I consider eating pork to be a sin. I merely choose not to eat meat as it is healthier (and meat is gross).

JM

 

[TrustAndObey]

That's a stretch from the official doctrine of the Adventist church JonMiller. We believe in the importance of the commandments of God.

Going to church on Sunday isn't in and of itself a sin. In fact, we SHOULD worship God seven days a week.

However, if you totally neglect the commandment for God's holy day the day before, that is when the commandment is not being obeyed. Which by the way, is between a person and GOD...not between a person and the Adventist church.

They weren't called the Ten Great Suggestions and we weren't commanded to "try".

Adventists didn't write the commandments on stone. The fact that we believe them and their significance should be of little importance to anyone. In fact, Colossians says we should let no MAN judge us for the Sabbath day.

When Adventists uphold God's Word, I don't understand why others see that as condemning THEM. We aren't. Again, we did not write the commandments.

Jerry Falwell once told his congregation that Adventists do not believe in hell. Later, in the same sermon, he said "they believe anyone that doesn't keep the Sabbath commandment is going straight to hell."

I don't think people realize how they twist what they say sometimes.

People's relationships with God are very personal and very private. God judges the heart, and we cannot. People will be judged by the light they HAD.

 

[JonMiller]

Where in the 4th commandment does it say "Thou must go to church on my holy day?"

JM

 

[JonMiller]

Additionally, where in the Bible does it say "I will forgive you of all your sins, excepting breaking the Sabbath, that will doom you."

JM

 

[mva1985]

Where in the 4th commandment does it say "Thou must go to church on my holy day?"

JM

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy...."

 

[mva1985]

Additionally, where in the Bible does it say "I will forgive you of all your sins, excepting breaking the Sabbath, that will doom you."

JM

Jon,

I don't think anyone here is saying that if you go to church on Sunday you are doomed to hell. You must first be fully convinced that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, once that happens wouldn't it be considered a sin not to observe it?

 

[JonMiller]

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy...."

And that implies going to church... where?

And I don't see how your other post is a response to my post. Does the Bible say "I will forgive all your sins, except breaking the Sabbath if you knew you should keep it, that will doom you."?

JM

 

[mva1985]

To assist you "
20. Sabbath:The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)[1]"Where is this maintaining that if you don't worship on the Sabbath that you can't be saved.

You are not representative of the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church, nor many (hopefully the majority) of it's membership.

Jon Miller

Jon,

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to get across here. Could you explain?

 

[JonMiller]

See my other posts, I am saying that my statements more accurately reflect the fundamental doctrine of the SDA church, rather then T&O's statements.

JM

 

[mva1985]

And that implies going to church... where?

And I don't see how your other post is a response to my post. Does the Bible say "I will forgive all your sins, except breaking the Sabbath if you knew you should keep it, that will doom you."?

JM

If a person is convinced that they need to observe the Sabbath and they don't is that not a sin?

In 1 John sin is defined as the transgression of the law (10 commandments).

So if you want to "Remember" the Sabbath day how exactly would you do that? By keeping it Holy maybe?

 

[JonMiller]

Where does keeping it Holy imply church attendance?

Where does it say that "all sins will be forgiven, except breaking the Sabbath"?

I am asking this in relation to both the Bible and the SDA church fundamental beleifs.

Jon Miller