Some people I read about:

[Wiccan_Child]

It is not a literal meaning of denial. The person I was responding to misconscrewd the meaning and I was throwing it back.

Nevertheless, I am still curious as to your definition of denial.

 

[david_x]

Nevertheless, I am still curious as to your definition of denial.

Denial= refruting reality.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Denial= refruting reality.

Then the statement: "Yet Alan Chambers admits he “struggles with same sex desires” indicating that there is no “transformation”…just denial.", is accurate, by your definition of denile. What, then, is your problem?

 

[david_x]

Then the statement: "Yet Alan Chambers admits he “struggles with same sex desires” indicating that there is no “transformation”…just denial.", is accurate, by your definition of denile. What, then, is your problem?

That is not denial.

Like I was trying to say. It is like saying that someone longing after marijuana is in denial. They are obviously not in denial. Just like someone who is addicted to sex is not in denial just because they are having lustful thoughts.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

That is not denial.

Like I was trying to say. It is like saying that someone longing after marijuana is in denial. They are obviously not in denial. Just like someone who is addicted to sex is not in denial just because they are having lustful thoughts.

Alan Chambers denies that he is a homosexual, even though he admits that to having homosexual attractions. This is rejecting reality. This is, by your definition, denial.

 

[david_x]

Alan Chambers denies that he is a homosexual, even though he admits that to having homosexual attractions. This is rejecting reality. This is, by your definition, denial.

Only if homosexuality is reality. Which it is not. That said the homosexual is in denial.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Only if homosexuality is reality. Which it is not.

No. Homosexuality is the phenomenon whereby an individual of a sexually reproducing species is sexually attracted to members of it's own sex. This has been observed in over 1,500 species, humans included.

That said the homosexual is in denial.

Alan himself, or homosexuals in general? In either case, how?

 

[david_x]

Alan himself, or homosexuals in general? In either case, how?

From a christian prospective. We want to be what God created us to be, that is not who we are. We deny ourselves in hope, hope of achieveing what we are meant to be.

Homosexuality is a sin, therefore saying that it is who we are is irrelivent to the fact that we are not made to be who we are.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

From a christian prospective.

I hardly expect you to argue from the Vedic texts.

We want to be what God created us to be, that is not who we are.

Why would God create us as other than what he wants us to be?

Homosexuality is a sin,

Argueable. Our three threads on the subject appear to have digressed somewhat.

therefore saying that it is who we are is irrelivent to the fact that we are not made to be who we are.

Interesting. How do you know that our entire self is meant to change? How do you know that some inborn traits are not meant to stay, and others changed (ignorance into wisdom, for example)?

 

[EternallyPierced]

Romans 16-18
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions
and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have
learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own
appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive
people.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there
will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive
heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift
destruction on themselves.

 

[EternallyPierced]

I do your not appreciate your swift talk or confusion tactics, Wiccan Child. I kindly ask that you stop.

 

[david_x]

Why would God create us as other than what he wants us to be?

He wants us to have a choice. In doing so God gave us free will.

Interesting. How do you know that our entire self is meant to change? How do you know that some inborn traits are not meant to stay, and others changed (ignorance into wisdom, for example)?

We are to be born again. These natural tendencies are denied for the love of God.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I do your not appreciate your swift talk or confusion tactics, Wiccan Child. I kindly ask that you stop.

With all due respect, no I will not. I am having a calm and rational debate with a fellow poster. If you cannot keep track, then that is your problem, not mine. I have made no rule infractions, and I would appreciate if you would keep the discussion on topic (insofar as david_x and I have made our own topic).

 

[Wiccan_Child]

He wants us to have a choice. In doing so God gave us free will.

Ah, yes, free will. Why do we have to have a choice?

We are to be born again.

Why?

These natural tendencies are denied for the love of God.

So, in your view, sexual urges are to test us? To see if we would chose the love of God over the love of man?

 

[david_x]

Ah, yes, free will. Why do we have to have a choice?

It is a gift. You don't have to have it. If you want it, it's there.

Why?

To be better people.

So, in your view, sexual urges are to test us? To see if we would chose the love of God over the love of man?

In a way.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Wiccan_Child.

No. Homosexuality is the phenomenon whereby an individual of a sexually reproducing species is sexually attracted to members of it's own sex. This has been observed in over 1,500 species, humans included.

But is it instinct in animals? Is there any proven genetic evidence? Do animals have faithful monogmaous same-sex partners?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It is a gift. You don't have to have it. If you want it, it's there.

No. Your god is supposed to have planted it in every human. It is not so much a gift as a mandatory and unreturnable burden.

To be better people.

If God wants us to be better people, then why not create us like that in the first place?

In a way.

Fair enough.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Is there any proven genetic evidence?

Proven genetic evidence? A rather odd and specific phrase. But yes, there is much evidence that homosexuality is at least partially derived from one's biology (specifically, one's neurochemistry).

Do animals have faithful monogmaous same-sex partners?

Some species do, yes.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Wiccan_Child,

Some species do, yes.

Species? They would die out then. Which species have some of their number do this?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Hi Brightmorningstar,

If you have read this already. I missed part of the context, and was keying in on the animals and monogamy part.

There are some species of amoebas and other things do, earthworms... I am not sure if any of it can be called monogomous though.
But that is a fruitless argument to even get into as humans are not animals but were fearfully and wonderfully made in the image of God. Animals do not possess such a claim. If we were to adapt our lives to the lower than human way animals conduct themselves and the codes they live by rather than the way God created us to live and conduct ourselves, we may be killing and eating our young.

strawman.