some peace?

[QuiltAngel]

The subforums were set up for places to have discussions that were not debates. The main forum is for debating.

When debating, we must keep in mind visitors to the forum and let them as their questions and not get into the debates we have amongst ourselves. It is this debating on their threads with legit questions that I don't like.

We should be able to have a section where we can discuss and have fellowship. The recent thread on wels and lcms difference is one that went way off track. Last I knew the thread starter has not returned to the thread in over a week. Instead, we have a discussion there with a lot of back and forth, finger pointing and hurt feelings. I sometimes wonder why we can just answer a question and leave it at that. Take any debate to another thread.

Yes, we have some members here who feel like Missouri have left them. We need to respect that. That is their experience.

We need to look at the bigger picture here and work towards preaching and teaching the Gospel while at the same time staying true to our mutual Lutheran doctrines.

 

[seajoy]

I'm going to put a copy of my previous post in the main TCL forum as a discussion starter because I would very much like to bring both halves of the Lutheran house into this discussion, and I'm not sure the ELCA folks will see it here.

I was not my intention to talk about this with the ELCA. That is why I put it in the safe haven of the conservative/confessional sub-forum.

 

[joyfulthanks]

I sometimes wonder why we can just answer a question and leave it at that.

I agree. There is a vast difference between answering a question like this:

"Group X believes this, while group y believes that. Here is the reason I believe scripture teaches that x is correct"

or like this:

"Group X believes this because they are unfaithful to the scripture, and are a bunch of heretical idiots."

One states the facts, leaving the reader free to examine the evidence and come to their own conclusions under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, while the other incites war, and does nothing to further the cause of Christ.

 

[joyfulthanks]

.

 

[DaRev]

I think sometimes we look back too much and forget about now and where we need to move forward.

BINGO!!!!!!

It must be a Lutheran thing, to hold with whitened knuckles onto the past, whether good or bad. Many a congregation has been damaged by this very thing.

 

[joyfulthanks]

I was not my intention to talk about this with the ELCA. That is why I put it in the safe haven of the conservative/confessional sub-forum.

I have asked that my thread in the main forum be removed. They can't remove it, but they did close it.

 

[RadMan]

I don't think people will be challenged, or made to think, if this subforum winds up just being a coffee klach. It will just get stagnant and no one will grow. I know I have posted many controversial topics here and a few have done research work and made demands of themselves to learn more on the subject. In my opinion there hasn't been enough of that done but as some have noted Lutherans don't like change or do they like controversy. It disturbs their false sense of security.

There are no good discussions of any consequence in this subforum. I like the TCL forum because people/conservatives could confront subjects that the ELCA brought up. There are too many problems that need confronting in the LCMS(or WELS or ELS or AALC) on either a theological scale or political scale to be ignored so the subforum is the best place to discuss it.



.

 

[seajoy]

Point taken, Rad.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Thanks for the thoughtful post Seajoy!

I see this forum as having a threefold purpose:

• Friendly fellowship among all of us here who share much common ground.
• Respectful discussion and debate of the few things that have and continue to keep some of our Synods from full fellowship (BTW it's my understanding that LCC and LCMS have never recinded their declaration of fellowship with WELS so those of us in theses Synods must keep this in mind).
• Respectful discussion and debate of the few issues that trouble each of our Synods from time to time.
• And this; which I believe is the most important purpose: Outreach to those who are not in fellowship with us, but who are seeking understanding, many of which may be hurting when they come here.

With regard to my last point, it is important IMO that we always post in the spirit of Christian Love and Charity (That's also in our rules here). Our Synods do have their differences, but our doctrines of faith and the ministry of Word and Sacrament are the same. For the sake of those who visit us, we all need to keep this in mind and continue to share this with them. Often times when others visit here, they are looking for the peace and unity that their own denominations may not be providing; let's try and do a bit better on this one!

God bless us all!

 

[Chemnitz]

Witness. Mercy. Life Together.

 

[seajoy]

Thanks for the thoughtful post Seajoy!

I see this forum as having a threefold purpose:

• Friendly fellowship among all of us here who share much common ground.
• Respectful discussion and debate of the few things that have and continue to keep some of our Synods from full fellowship (BTW it's my understanding that LCC and LCMS have never recinded their declaration of fellowship with WELS so those of us in theses Synods must keep this in mind).
• Respectful discussion and debate of the few issues that trouble each of our Synods from time to time.
• And this; which I believe is the most important purpose: Outreach to those who are not in fellowship with us, but who are seeking understanding, many of which may be hurting when they come here.

With regard to my last point, it is important IMO that we always post in the spirit of Christian Love and Charity (That's also in our rules here). Our Synods do have their differences, but our doctrines of faith and the ministry of Word and Sacrament are the same. For the sake of those who visit us, we all need to keep this in mind and continue to share this with them. Often times when others visit here, they are looking for the peace and unity that their own denominations may not be providing; let's try and do a bit better on this one!

God bless us all!

Thanks for this post, Mark. You told how this sub-forum is supposed to be run, much better than I did. It's why I'll never be a mod.

 

[IngaLuv]

I think this is a fabulous thread and honestly, my favorite so far. I am new to this forum and was so excited to find a place to share my love of God with other believers. When I began reading some of the threads, my heart was heavy seeing all of the discontent in this forum. My prayers are that We Christians can unite in one voice for all the world to feel the love of Christ.

I feel our world is in a sad state right now and only Love can help it. Christ didn't go in punching, he went in spreading the word of love and peace. How do we get non believers to believe if we do not show that same love and peace? We are all Christians whether we are Catholic, Lutheran, First United Church of Christ or whatever. We believe in the same God, and the son of God who preaches peace, love and forgiveness.

Prayers for all of you in this forum that you might find the peace of Gods love in your heart. May that love spill out onto others each day.

 

[Chemnitz]

The irony is that, in real life, Lutherans are among the best at living peaceably with their neighbors.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I think this is a fabulous thread and honestly, my favorite so far. I am new to this forum and was so excited to find a place to share my love of God with other believers. When I began reading some of the threads, my heart was heavy seeing all of the discontent in this forum. My prayers are that We Christians can unite in one voice for all the world to feel the love of Christ.

I feel our world is in a sad state right now and only Love can help it. Christ didn't go in punching, he went in spreading the word of love and peace. How do we get non believers to believe if we do not show that same love and peace? We are all Christians whether we are Catholic, Lutheran, First United Church of Christ or whatever. We believe in the same God, and the son of God who preaches peace, love and forgiveness.

Prayers for all of you in this forum that you might find the peace of Gods love in your heart. May that love spill out onto others each day.

Welcome to Christian Forums, and welcome to Theologia Crucis!

The Church on earth is made up of sinners; and as such there will always be issues of contention in every denomination. We need only to read the Bible to see this type of thing has been with us from the very beginning; it was there at Nicaea; it was there at the Reformation, it was there at Vatican II, it is still with us, and will remain so until the last day. Lutherans tend not to shy away or hide these things. Like in a good marriage, we try and discuss our differences; and like in a good marriage, such discussion tends to keep us together and our relationships strong! Don't judge us on our disputes, rather judge us on our unity!

God bless,

Mark

 

[IngaLuv]

No judgments at all, just observations. I hope we can all be brothers and sisters in Christ. Thank you for all of your blessings.

 

[Matt Faith]

I feel our world is in a sad state right now and only Love can help it. Christ didn't go in punching, he went in spreading the word of love and peace. How do we get non believers to believe if we do not show that same love and peace? We are all Christians whether we are Catholic, Lutheran, First United Church of Christ or whatever. We believe in the same God, and the son of God who preaches peace, love and forgiveness.

Great post.

 

[Zecryphon]

I think this is a fabulous thread and honestly, my favorite so far. I am new to this forum and was so excited to find a place to share my love of God with other believers. When I began reading some of the threads, my heart was heavy seeing all of the discontent in this forum. My prayers are that We Christians can unite in one voice for all the world to feel the love of Christ.

Welcome to TCL! I hope you will enjoy your stay here. If you'll indulge me, I do have a few things I'd like to say regarding your thoughts. I don't think there is any more discontent in this forum than any other congregational forum. Just out of curiosity, how many other Congregational forums have you visited on CF?

I feel our world is in a sad state right now and only Love can help it. Christ didn't go in punching, he went in spreading the word of love and peace.

Okay, but whose love are we to show to one another? Since you don't say here, I have to ask. I respectfully disagree with your summation of Christ. He had His moments where He wasn't all lovey-dovey. For instance when he turned over the tables in the temples, accusing the moneychangers of turning His Father's house into a house of thieves. How about when He smote the fig tree causing it to whither because it would not give Him fruit? How about when He called the Pharisees "a brood of vipers." How about when He said that He did not come to bring peace but a sword of division? Jesus wasn't all lovey-dovey 100% of the time. He did bring the message of God the Father and that message was and is harsh at times to hear.

How do we get non believers to believe if we do not show that same love and peace?

We don't make believers out of non-believers. Salvation and the gift of faith are totally 100% God's work in us. Read John 6:44 and Ephesians 2:1-9. God saves us, the only thing we are commanded to do as Christians is to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to the nations. Matthew 28:19-20.

We are all Christians whether we are Catholic, Lutheran, First United Church of Christ or whatever. We believe in the same God, and the son of God who preaches peace, love and forgiveness.

I don't know about that statement, since each one of these churches seems to teach differently about how a person is saved. I don't know what the UCC teaches as I have not read up on them.

Prayers for all of you in this forum that you might find the peace of Gods love in your heart. May that love spill out onto others each day.

And also to you.