Some History, Experience, and Facts

[rainbowinthesky]

Some History, Experience, and Facts
by A.T. Jones

Battle Creek, Mich., Jan. 26, 1906.
To A.G. Daniells,
Takoma Park Station, Washington, D.C.

Dear Brother:--Your letter of the 17th in answer to mine of the 6th goes so far afield from anything expected or, as I think, called for by my letter, that I am disposed to follow you there, and do all that I can to take away all ground for your having any perplexity about me or my course. Indeed, if you had remembered things that at the beginning I said to you, you need not to have been perplexed at all concerning me, if you expected me to be consistent at all.

First as to the General Conference matters, and my relations to the Committee. Before the General Conference of 1897, at College View, the conditions were such that in that Conference things came to a deadlock. By the Committee and presidents in council, I, in my absence was appointed to read the Testimonies to find the way out. God did lead us out gloriously. A change was made: Brother Irwin being elected president. And I was made a member of the Committee.

It was not very long, however, before the same influences that had produced the situation at College View, were again at work. I saw it plainly enough to satisfy me, and by the time of the General Conference of 1899, at South Lancaster, things were in a bad shape again in some respects--though not near so far along as at College View. In the South Lancaster Conference one day, all unexpectedly, and unintentionally on the part of anybody in the Conference, the power of God came in in a special manner, bringing the whole Conference to its knees at once, and working a great deliverance again.

Brother Irwin stated openly in the Conference that he had "been a coward." The whole matter can be read in the Bulletin of that Conference for that day. On another day in that Conference, the power of God came in specially and carried the deliverance further.

By action of that Conference, I was continued on the Committee. It was not long before the same old influences were at work; and in about a year they had got such a hold again, that, rather than be compromised, I resigned from the Committee.

Then came the General Conference of 1901, in Battle Creek. According to the arrangements I was to report the proceedings of the Conference. But before the Conference actually assembled in session there occurred that meeting in the Library Room of the College Building, in which Sister White spoke on General Conference matters and organization:

"What we want now is a reorganization. We want to begin at the foundation, and to build upon a different principle... There must be an ENTIRE NEW ORGANIZATION, and to have a Committee that shall take in not merely half a dozen that is to be a ruling and controlling power, but it is to have representatives of those that are placed in responsibility in our educational interests, in our sanitariums, etc., that there should be a renovation without any delay. To have this Conference pass on and close up as the Conferences have done with the same manipulating, with the very same tone, and the same order--God forbid! God forbid, brethren... And until this shall come we might just as well close up the Conference today as any other day. . . This thing has been continued and renewed for the last fifteen years or more, (1901 minus 15 years takes us back to 1886), and God calls for a change."

to be continued

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Some History, Experience, and Facts
by A.T. Jones

Part 2


"From the light that I have, as it was presented to me in figures. There was a narrow compass here; there within that narrow compass, is a king-like, a kingly ruling power. God means what he says and He says, 'I want a change here.' Will it be the same thing? going over and over the same ideas, the same committees--and here is the little throne--the king is in there, and these others are all secondary. God wants that those committees that have been handling things for so long should be relieved of their command and have a chance for their life and see if they can not get out of this rut that they are in--which I have no hope of their getting out of, because the Spirit of God has been working and working, and yet the king is in there still. Now the Lord wants His Spirit to come in. He wants the Holy Ghost King.

"From the light that I have had for some time, and has been expressed over and over again, not to all that are here, but has been expressed to individuals--the plan, that God would have all to work from, that never should one mind or two minds or three minds, nor four minds, or a few minds I should say, be considered of sufficient wisdom and power to control and mark out plans and let it rest upon the minds of one or two or three in regard to this broad, broad field that we have.

"And the work all over our field demands an entirely different course of action than we have had; that there needs the laying of a foundation that is different from what we have had... In all these countries, far and near, He wants to be an arousing, broadening, enlarging power. And a management which is getting confused in itself--not that any one is wrong or means to be wrong, but the principle is wrong; and the principles have become so mixed and so fallen from what God's principles are.

"These things have been told, and this standstill has got to come to an end. But yet every Conference has woven after the same pattern, it is the very same loom that carries it, and finally, it will come to naught."

to be continued

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Some History, Experience, and Facts
by A.T. Jones

Part 9

STARTED THE CALLED-FOR RE-ORGANIZATION

In that Conference (1901) the General Conference was started toward the called-for reorganization. All understood that the call was away from a centralized order of things in which "one man or two men or three or four men or a few men" held the ruling and directing power, to an organization in which "all the people" as individuals should have a part, with God, in Christ, by the Holy Spirit as the unifying, guiding, and directing power. Indeed, the day before my second sermon on organization, Sister White had said, April 3--"We want to understand that there are no gods in our Conference. There are to be no kings here, and no kings in any conference that is formed. 'All ye are brethren.'"

"The Lord wants to bind those at this Conference heart to heart. No man is to say, 'I am a god, and you must do as I say.' From the beginning to the end this is wrong. There is to be an individual work. God says, 'Let him take hold of my strength that he may make peace with me, and he shall make peace with me.'

"Remember that God can give wisdom to those who handle His work. It is not necessary to send thousands of miles to Battle Creek for advice, and then have to wait weeks before an answer can be received. Those who are right on the ground are to decide what shall be done. You know what you have to wrestle with, but those who are thousands of miles away do not know."-- Bulletin, 1901, pp. 69, 70.

And on the very day of my second sermon, April 4, she said in a talk at 9:00 a.m., "This meeting will determine the character of our work in the future. How important that every step shall be taken under the supervision of God. This work must be carried in a very different manner to what it has been in the past years."
--1901 Bulletin, p. 83.

In this understanding an entire new Constitution was adopted; and that such was the understanding in adopting this Constitution is plainly shown in the discussions. Under this constitution the General Conference Committee was composed of a large number of men, with power to organize itself by choosing a chairman, etc. No president of the General Conference was chosen; nor was any provided for. The presidency of the General Conference was eliminated to escape a centralized power, a one-man power, a kingship, a monarchy. The Constitution was framed and adopted to that end in accordance with the whole guiding thought in the Conference from the beginning in that room in the College Building.

Shortly after the Conference ended, you suggested during the meeting at Indianapolis that my sermon on organization ought to be printed in a leaflet so that our people everywhere could have it for study in the work of reorganization. Your suggestion was agreed to and I was directed to prepare it for printing. I did so, and it was printed at General Conference direction, in "Words of Truth" Series, No. 31, extra, May, 1901."

to be continued

 

[Castaway57]

Some History, Experience, and Facts
by A.T. Jones

Part 9

STARTED THE CALLED-FOR RE-ORGANIZATION

In that Conference (1901) the General Conference was started toward the called-for reorganization.

There has been plenty of reorganization since then; and your malcontented messages here do nothing to point people to Jesus, or even to the true state of the Church.

 

[Castaway57]

All understood that the call was away from a centralized order of things in which "one man or two men or three or four men or a few men" held the ruling and directing power, to an organization in which "all the people" as individuals should have a part, with God, in Christ, by the Holy Spirit as the unifying, guiding, and directing power.

Wow; you just won't stop pickin away at people will you?

Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Some History, Experience, and Facts
by A.T. Jones

Part 9

STARTED THE CALLED-FOR RE-ORGANIZATION

In that Conference (1901) the General Conference was started toward the called-for reorganization. All understood that the call was away from a centralized order of things in which "one man or two men or three or four men or a few men" held the ruling and directing power, to an organization in which "all the people" as individuals should have a part, with God, in Christ, by the Holy Spirit as the unifying, guiding, and directing power. Indeed, the day before my second sermon on organization, Sister White had said, April 3--"We want to understand that there are no gods in our Conference. There are to be no kings here, and no kings in any conference that is formed. 'All ye are brethren.'"

"The Lord wants to bind those at this Conference heart to heart. No man is to say, 'I am a god, and you must do as I say.' From the beginning to the end this is wrong. There is to be an individual work. God says, 'Let him take hold of my strength that he may make peace with me, and he shall make peace with me.'

"Remember that God can give wisdom to those who handle His work. It is not necessary to send thousands of miles to Battle Creek for advice, and then have to wait weeks before an answer can be received. Those who are right on the ground are to decide what shall be done. You know what you have to wrestle with, but those who are thousands of miles away do not know."-- Bulletin, 1901, pp. 69, 70.

And on the very day of my second sermon, April 4, she said in a talk at 9:00 a.m., "This meeting will determine the character of our work in the future. How important that every step shall be taken under the supervision of God. This work must be carried in a very different manner to what it has been in the past years."
--1901 Bulletin, p. 83.

In this understanding an entire new Constitution was adopted; and that such was the understanding in adopting this Constitution is plainly shown in the discussions. Under this constitution the General Conference Committee was composed of a large number of men, with power to organize itself by choosing a chairman, etc. No president of the General Conference was chosen; nor was any provided for. The presidency of the General Conference was eliminated to escape a centralized power, a one-man power, a kingship, a monarchy. The Constitution was framed and adopted to that end in accordance with the whole guiding thought in the Conference from the beginning in that room in the College Building.

Shortly after the Conference ended, you suggested during the meeting at Indianapolis that my sermon on organization ought to be printed in a leaflet so that our people everywhere could have it for study in the work of reorganization. Your suggestion was agreed to and I was directed to prepare it for printing. I did so, and it was printed at General Conference direction, in "Words of Truth" Series, No. 31, extra, May, 1901."

to be continued

Now after all this, it was not long before this whole spirit and principle of General Conference organization and affairs began to be reversed again. This spirit of reaction became so rife and so rank that some time before the General Conference of 1903 at Oakland, Cal., two men, or three men, or four men, or a few men, I should say, being together in Battle Creek or somewhere else, and without any kind of authority, but directly against the plain words of the Constitution, took it absolutely upon themselves to elect you, brother Daniells, president, and Brother Prescott vice-president of the General Conference. And than that there never was in this universe a clearer piece of usurpation of position, power, and authority. You two were then, of right, just as much president and vice-president of Timbuktoo as you were of the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference.

But this spirit did not stop even there. The thing done was directly against the Constitution. This was too plain to be escaped. And it was just as plain that with that Constitution (of 1901) still perpetuated in the coming General Conference, this usurpation of position, power, and authority could not be perpetuated. What could be done to preserve the usurpation?-- Oh, that was just as easy as the other. A new Constitution was framed to fit and to uphold the usurpation. This Constitution was carried to the General Conference of 1903 at Oakland, Cal., and in every unconstitutional way was there jammed through. I say in every unconstitutional way, because in every truly constitutional government the Constitution comes in some way from the people, not from the monarch. Thus the people make and establish a Constitution. The monarch grants a Constitution. When the people make a Constitution the people govern. When a monarch grants a Constitution, he seeks to please the people with a toy and keeps the government himself. This difference is the sole difficulty in Russia today; and the difference is simply the difference between monarchy and government of the people; and between oppression and freedom. The people want to make a Constitution. The czar wants to grant them a Constitution and have them endorse anew his autocracy and bureaucracy by adopting the Constitution that he grants.

And this is just the difference between the General Conference and its Constitution of 1901, and the General Conference and its Constitution of 1903. In 1901 the monarchy was swept aside completely, and the Conference itself as such and as a whole made a new Constitution. In the General Conference of 1903, the usurpers of monarchical position and authority came with a Constitution that fitted and maintained their usurpation, and succeeded in getting it adopted. And how?--None of the people had asked for any new Constitution. The General Conference delegation had not asked for it. Not even the Committee on Constitution asked for it. In behalf of the usurpation it was brought before that committee and advocated there because, in very words, "The church must have a visible head." It was not, even then, nor was it ever, favored by that committee. It was put through the committee, and reported to the Conference, only by permanently dividing the committee--a minority of the committee opposing it all the time, and--a thing almost unheard of in Seventh-day Adventist Conference--bringing into the Conference a minority report against it.

And when at last it was adopted by the final vote, it was by the slim majority of just five. And it was only by the carelessness of some of the delegates that it got through even that way; for there were just then downstairs in the Oakland church enough delegates who were opposed to it, to have defeated it if they had been present. They told this themselves afterward. But they did not know that the vote was being taken, and by their not being in their places the usurpation was sanctioned; the reactionary spirit that had been so long working for absolute control had got it; the principles and intent of the General Conference of 1901 were reversed; and a czardom was enthroned which has since gone steadily onward in the same way and has with perfect consistency built up a thoroughly bureaucratic government, by which it reaches and meddles with, and manipulates, the affairs of all, not only of union and local conferences, but of local churches, and even of individual persons. So that some of the oldest men in active service today, and who by their life experience are best qualified to know, have freely said that in the whole history of the denomination there has never been such a one-man power, such a centralized despotism, so much of papacy as there has been since the Oakland Conference. And as a part of this bureaucracy there is, of all the incongruous things ever heard of, a "Religious Liberty Bureau," a contradiction in terms.

to be continued

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Another thing: In connection with the campaign against Dr. Kellogg there is an item that occurred in 1901, that to me, at the time and since, has had much meaning. This should now be stated.

From Sister White's address in the College Library just before General Conference of 1901, I have, in the letter, quoted considerably of what was said concerning the wrong principles of General Conference workings and the necessity of "a change" and "an entire new organization." But that same address was just as remarkable, and to the then General Conference administration was just as revolutionary, concerning General Conference attitude toward Dr. Kellogg, as it was concerning affairs of General Conference itself.

For it must be borne in mind that in 1901 there was expected, if not planned, by General Conference administration just such a move against Dr. Kellogg as has since been made; and it was then expected that the Testimonies should bear as large a part in the movement as since they have been made to bear; and I believe that there was valid ground for the expectation. But this expectation and all that was connected with it was simply annihilated by what was said on that subject by Sister White in her address that day in the College Library. On this subject, that day she said:--

"God has told me that my testimony must be borne straight to this conference, and that I am not to try to make a soul believe that my work is to leave the truth with human minds, and these having found the truth in the Word of God will appreciate it, and will appreciate every ray of light that God has given for poor lame souls that they should not be turned out of the way. And I want you to make straight paths for your feet lest the lame be turned out of the way.

"Now we want that in the conference we shall have the ability that God has given unto Dr. Kellogg--I don't suppose he is here; I don't know that he is--at any rate I want to say that the Lord want you to make the most of the capabilities that he is using in every part of the work. He does not mean the Medical Missionary work separated from the Gospel work, nor the Gospel work separated from the Medical Missionary work. He wants them to blend together. And he wants that this educating power of the Medical Missionary work shall be considered as the pioneer work, the breaking-up plow, for the breaking down of the prejudices that have existed, and that nothing will break down like it; and God wants every soul to stand shoulder to shoulder with Dr. Kellogg. He has become all but desperate, and came nearly losing his life because of the positions that have been taken, and every one throwing a stone right before the car so that it should not advance. Now God wants the Health and Missionary work to advance. He wants God's work to be carried on.

"Really, when I came here I did not know what to do. Courteously Dr. Kellogg had asked me to come to his house and let them give me treatment a week or two before the conference, so that I should be able to attend the conference. Then came up the question, 'Here, what about this? They will say that Dr. Kellogg has manipulated you.' Let them say it if they want to, they have said it enough when there was not a particle of ground for it. But I was going to take all the difficulty out of the way, so I sent word: 'Find me a place. Dr. Kellogg has kindly opened his house to me; but to remove all occasion for talk I decided that I would not go there. Now find me a place.'

"On Friday night I was knelt in prayer, saying 'O, Lord, tell me where to go and what to do.'-- There I had been sick, and was still sick,--and why I didn't choose to come to Battle Creek to the conference was that I knew that it would be a terrible trial for me. I didn't want to sacrifice my life, and so I said that I couldn't come here. I couldn't come across the plains. Then they said they would have the conference in Oakland. But in the night season I was talking to you just as I am here today. I was bearing a message night after night and night after night; and then I would get up at 12 o'clock, and 1 o'clock, and 2 o'clock and write out the message that I had. And it was then while I was considering these things, came messages from London, that they had hoped that they could see me and meet me, but now they couldn't come so far and it cost so much--and I heard it would cost from five to eight thousand dollars more; and then I said, 'We have got so much money to spare, and if I sacrifice my life, I will try it anyway.' Dr. Kellogg never persuaded me at all to come here. When I spoke of the particulars, the cold weather, he said,--the only words he spoke to me--'Would it make any difference if the conference could be changed to a few weeks later?' I said, 'It would.' Then I began to think on that plan after he had gone.

"Well, we knelt down to pray; and I was asking the Lord where I should go and what I should do. I was for backing out and not going anywhere. Sadie says, 'You are not fit to go anywhere.' Well, while I was praying and was sending up my petition there was as on other times--I saw a light circulating right round in the room, and a fragrance like the fragrance of flowers, and the beautiful scent of flowers, and then the Voice seemed to speak gently, and said that I was to 'Accept the invitation of My servant, John Kellogg, and make his house your home.' Then the word was, 'I have appointed him as My physician. You can be an encouragement to him.' That is why I am here, and that is why I am at his home. Now I want in every way possible, if I can, to treat Dr. Kellogg as God's appointed physician, and I am going to do it.

"Now in addition to this that I tell you, the next night--that night I slept happy, very happy. The whole family was melted and broken down. They knew nothing of what I had in my mind at all; nothing at all that I had seen, but the Spirit of God was there. They were all weeping and broken, and the blessing of God was flowing through that room like a tidal wave. The Spirit of God had taken hold upon us and Sister Druillard was just weeping and praising God, and Brother Druillard was praising God, and we all there had an outpouring of the Spirit of God. Such things are more precious to me than the gold of Ophir.

"Now God has not blessed us as He would have blessed us had there been an appreciation of the work that He is carrying on. I thank God that Dr. Kellogg has not sunk into despondency and infidelity. I have been afraid of it, and I have written some very straight things to him, and it may be, Dr. Kellogg--if he is here--that I have written too strong; for I felt as though I must get hold of you and hold you by the power of all the might I had.

"But I have seen the work that has been carried on, and how can anybody see it and not see that God is at work? That is the mystery to me. I can not understand it. I can not explain it. Those that shall have any knowledge of the work wrought here, should be the men that should represent it; they should stand to give character to the work, and to the higher classes that they may be reached. And every soul of you ought to feel honored before God that He has given you instrumentalities that the higher classes may be reached, and that the wealthy should be reached. You should feel to thank God for the honor that he has bestowed. And I want to say that I want to take hold to the utmost of my ability."

Nor is it to be in any sense supposed that the foregoing was merely private matter; for the very next day as soon as the president of the General Conference had announced that "the conference is now formally opened" Sister White delivered an address in which she said:--

"What we want now is a reorganization. We want to begin at the foundation, and to build upon a different principle. The institution under the management of Dr. Kellogg has done a great work for the education of the youth. It has sent forth more workers in the cause in medical missionary gospel lines than any other agency I know of among our people throughout the world. And I ask, How have you treated the matter? Have you felt that you were to honor God by respecting and honoring the work that has been done in His name for the upbuilding of His cause?

The principles of health reform have been proclaimed by us as a people for thirty years. And yet there are among us ministers of the gospel and members of the church who have no respect for the light that God has given upon health reform...

The Word of God is to be our guide. Have you given heed to the Word? The Testimonies are not by any means to take the place of the Word. They are to bring you to that neglected Word, that you may eat the words of Christ, that you may feed upon them, that by living faith you may be built up from that upon which you feed."--General Conference Bulletin, 1901, page 25.

Thus it is demonstrated, not only that in every respect I stand today exactly as I did before and in 1897, in 1899, and in 1901, but also that the principles and attitude that I then held were in every respect confirmed in that address in the College Library, April 1, 1901, and in the one at the opening of the General Conference, April 2, 1901.

I do not say that even then, either Dr. Kellogg or the Medical Missionary and Sanitarium work was without fault or flaw. I do not say so now. I simply say that a person of whom, and a work of which, God could so speak as was then spoken, is worth earnest effort to save. And the word given to me of God was and is "Destroy it not, for a blessing is in it."

to be continued

 

[Castaway57]

Your diatribes here are not Adventist, and the conspicuous absence of the Bible in your long lists of excuses do nothing to attract ANYONE to the Savior.

Isa 35:1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
Isa 35:2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
Isa 35:3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
Isa 35:4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
Isa 35:5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
Isa 35:7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
Isa 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Castaway57:

What is wrong with you? Why are you so mean and hateful? All that is written comes from the history books of pioneers of the church. Can't you just ask this person what point theya are trying to present? Attacking each other only proves other points. House divided will fall and even though you do not agree with me or anyone else allow that person to speak freely. If you disagree so be it but prove all things and hold fast to the truth right? Blessed are the meek and the peacemakers Castaway. A kind word goes a long way. Let's us agree to disagree and not be unkind. I love you and hope that one day you will change your attitude to others that appear to disagree with.

Happy Sabbath and I am praying for you, please pray for me,
stinsonmarri

 

[Castaway57]

Castaway57:

Blessed are the meek and the peacemakers Castaway.
stinsonmarri

And of course, you are a meek peacemaker here, right? Every Friday night you bombast us with a bunch of denouncements and criticisms then say all this personal mantra about someone who questions you. You need to just turn those same guns you point at us on yourself.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Castaway57:

What is wrong with you? Why are you so mean and hateful? All that is written comes from the history books of pioneers of the church. Can't you just ask this person what point theya are trying to present? Attacking each other only proves other points. House divided will fall and even though you do not agree with me or anyone else allow that person to speak freely. If you disagree so be it but prove all things and hold fast to the truth right? Blessed are the meek and the peacemakers Castaway. A kind word goes a long way. Let's us agree to disagree and not be unkind. I love you and hope that one day you will change your attitude to others that appear to disagree with.

Happy Sabbath and I am praying for you, please pray for me,
stinsonmarri

I agree with you stin. I may not agree with everything you believe and teach but I feel the same way exactly about castaway. He does speak like a castaway. Bigotry might be another more appropriate word.

"The children of the kingdom shall be cast out." Jesus.

sky

 

[Castaway57]

"What we want now is a reorganization. We want to begin at the foundation, and to build upon a different principle... There must be an ENTIRE NEW ORGANIZATION, and to have a Committee that shall take in not merely half a dozen that is to be a ruling and controlling power, but it is to have representatives of those that are placed in responsibility in our educational interests, in our sanitariums, etc., that there should be a renovation without any delay. To have this Conference pass on and close up as the Conferences have done with the same manipulating, with the very same tone, and the same order--God forbid! God forbid, brethren... And until this shall come we might just as well close up the Conference today as any other day. . . This thing has been continued and renewed for the last fifteen years or more, (1901 minus 15 years takes us back to 1886), and God calls for a change."

to be continued

Jones ended up leaving the Church and his calls for a "new organization" were based upon some of the errors which led him out.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Well then it is obvious that you have never studied the 1901 and 1903 General Conference Bulletins. I have owned these for years and I have studied them very carefully and they show that Jones was speaking the truth and since the leaders of the G.C. rejected the light, especially in 1903, and they could not make Jones amenable to them, since they could not bring him to their terms, since he would not let them rule over him, they decided to ruin him. (T.M.360)

sky

 

[Castaway57]

I agree with you stin. I may not agree with everything you believe and teach but I feel the same way exactly about castaway. He does speak like a castaway. Bigotry might be another more appropriate word.

"The children of the kingdom shall be cast out." Jesus.

sky

I apologize for offending you:

Psa_32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
Psa_38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.
Psa_38:18 For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.

Psa_37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

Psa_94:14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.

 

[Castaway57]

Well then it is obvious that you have never studied the 1901 and 1903 General Conference Bulletins. I have owned these for years and I have studied them very carefully and they show that Jones was speaking the truth and since the leaders of the G.C. rejected the light, especially in 1903, and they could not make Jones amenable to them, since they could not bring him to their terms, since he would not let them rule over him, they decided to ruin him. (T.M.360)

sky

I have had them for 25 years and studied them too. I simply disagree with how you are using the materials of these bulletins, and what you are implying with them.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

I apologize for offending you:Psa_37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

Psa_94:14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.

Apology accepted.

sky

 

[rainbowinthesky]

I have had them for 25 years and studied them too. I simply disagree with how you are using the materials of these bulletins, and what you are implying with them.

You have had them for 25 years! All right then, can you look up page 25 of the 1901 Bulletin and give us the quote on that page from Mrs. White where she is talking about the need for a new organization.

Please thank you.

sky

 

[Castaway57]

You have had them for 25 years! All right then, can you look up page 25 of the 1901 Bulletin and give us the quote on that page from Mrs. White where she is talking about the need for a new organization.

Please thank you.

sky

Four years after this quote you refer to in 1901; Ellen White wrote the following:

The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work. Every truth that He has given for these last days is to be proclaimed to the world. Every pillar that He has established is to be strengthened. We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization, for this would mean apostasy from the truth.—Manuscript 129, 1905. {CTr 367.6}

Therefore; you are the one who needs to visit this passage from the 1901 GC Bulletin and admit to the public the correct context of what was going on and being said.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Originally Posted by rainbowinthesky

You have had them for 25 years! All right then, can you look up page 25 of the 1901 Bulletin and give us the quote on that page from Mrs. White where she is talking about the need for a new organization.

Please thank you.

sky
________________


Four years after this quote you refer to in 1901; Ellen White wrote the following:

"The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work. Every truth that He has given for these last days is to be proclaimed to the world. Every pillar that He has established is to be strengthened. We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization, for this would mean apostasy from the truth.—Manuscript 129, 1905. {CTr 367.6}

Therefore; you are the one who needs to visit this passage from the 1901 GC Bulletin and admit to the public the correct context of what was going on and being said.

Castaway57
______________

You said you had the 1901 and 1903 Bulletins and yet you can't quote from them?!!!

As to entering into another organization Mrs White in the statement you have quoted from 1905 is not saying that the organization was then according to God's blue print for in 1903 the leaders had already stepped off the platform or foundation that had been laid in 1901 and they had put God aside and once again adopted the devisings of men. So it had already happened.

That this is the fact of the matter is shown by the 1903 Minority Report of the Committee on Constitutions opposing the reversal of the 1901 reformatory steps at the 1903 General Conference. In my next post I will provide the evidence from the 1903 Bulletin itself.

The foundation for the new constitution, the change that God had asked for, was laid at the 1901 General Conference but in 1903 the leaders stepped off that foundation and entered into a new organization by reversing the reformatory steps that had been taken at the 1901 General Conference. The first step that was taken in 1901 was the elimination of the position of president of the General Conference but at the 1903 General Conference the leaders officially voted A.G. Daniells as president thus going against the 1901 Constitution which was afer God's order!

I do have these General Conference Bulletins with me and I will now quote from page 25 what I had asked you to do but did not or could not.

Bottom of page 25:

"Oh my very soul is drawn out in these things! Men who have not learned to submit themselves to the control and discipline of God are not competent to train the youth, to deal with human minds. It is just as much an impossibility for them to do this work as it would be for them to make a world. That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be,--that is past. What we want now is a reorganization. We want to begin at the foundation, and to build upon a different principle."

Then on page 84 we read these solemn words:

"This meeting will determine the character of our work in the future. How important that every step taken is taken under the supervision of God. This work must be carried in a very different manner to what it has been in the past years."

Then, in 1907, she wrote, "God declares, 'I will be glorified in My people;' but the self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If you allow this to continue your faith will soon become extinct." Testimonies to Ministers, 481.

Of course anyone who has not carefully studied these bulletins to know what really happened in 1901 and 1903, and if he/she has not read the Testimonies for those years, would, especially if he/she is a staunch supporter of the present "organized work," end up blindly supporting the 1903 constitution which is antagonistic to the third angel's message since God was then put aside and humanity was hailed as God. See T.M.360-365. On page 361 Mrs White speaks of this serious offense as "the high-handed power that has been developed as though position has made men gods makes me afraid and ought to cause fear."

sky

 

[Castaway57]

Of course anyone who has not carefully studied these bulletins to know what really happened in 1901 and 1903, and if he/she has not read the Testimonies for those years, would, especially if he/she is a staunch supporter of the present "organized work," end up blindly supporting the 1903 constitution which is antagonistic to the third angel's message since God was then put aside and humanity was hailed as God. See T.M.360-365. On page 361 Mrs White speaks of this serious offense as "the high-handed power that has been developed as though position has made men gods makes me afraid and ought to cause fear."

sky

It appears here that you are not an Adventist, and by what you write here; I would be surprised to hear if you attended church right now. You have a problem with the church authority that God has ordained; and I don't. Of course; I understand already from your previous posts of your's and your followers that this makes me "bigoted" and "hateful" but I do know what the scripures say; something I would suggest you brush up on so you can see how out of context your plethora of quotes ALWAYS are:

Mat_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I will go with the promises of Jesus instead of your mixed up quotes. You do not represent Traditional Adventists, or official Adventist teachings at all.

For your information; I have all of the GCB but mine have no page numbers because it is on a computer program; and I have had this for 25 years. What this program does is to list everything by day, month, and year, something I would strongly suggest you pay more attention to, along with the scriptures. These writings you are using as guns against the church are not Bible; and they are not now, nor ever were intended for this kind of use. You purport to be such an expert with the spirit of prophecy, on this site, as well as other sites, yet you ignore the very instructions therein which I have presented several times that tell you to not do this kind of thing with those writings.

I remain thankful that Jesus knows/knew all about our sinful condition and sinful ways; and and yet He said, "Lo, I come: in the volume of the Book it is written of Me, I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psa_40:7-8.

Christians today have the privilege of dwelling on this same thing that Jesus did here; or what you present. The choice is pretty clear for me.