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Solomon is the 666th name in the Bible
- Thread starter alasdair22
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On the 1st April I will most likely be in a flood - Rev 22:21 says that the plagues happen to the person who adds to the book.
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C
CouldiEver
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I wanted to address a few points again in your latest response to me:
Those "hypocrites" are some of the most godly men and women that I have ever known ... far more than I or anyone else I know. My grandfather is one such "hypocrite," when I look at him and my pastors I see the reflection of God ... there is something about them that just draws you to them. I'd like to be like that as I continue to grow. Do you what they gave up for the sake of the Gospel?
The teachers of the law are only hypocrites because they didn't practice what they preached. It had everything to do with their priority and nothing to do with their money or them getting paid by the tithes of the offerings. I ask you to use logic when approaching this discussion and the Bible.
And just what does Jesus say?
Um, those examples that I gave are in-line with the teachings of Jesus and the other apostles if you'd care to look at them.
We see time and time again in Paul's letters that we are to follow the example of Jesus, for example Romans 6:1-14 and Philippians 2:5-11, among others. Following Jesus is to be expected if we make Him our Lord and Saviour - Paul wouldn't have had to write, you have to follow Jesus, because it is a natural flow-on from accept Christ.
As for giving, for one example, Paul does tells us not to "forget to do good and to share with those in need. These are the sacrifices that please God" (Hebrews 13:16).
He is a preacher whose aim is not only to get people saved but to increase the strength of believer's faith in Christ by teaching them how to live godly lives and endure persecution, which if you've read his letters, you'll notice that it is exactly what he did... Another part of this is teaching sound theology as well and refuting compromise, and he did this as well in his letters...
That is not what Paul said, he himself when he came up against that kind of reasoning said:
In Christ, [presumably ex-] prostitutes and tax-collectors are holy and sinless in the sight of God as they have been washed by the blood of Jesus, as you and I have. When God sees these people, He sees them as blameless and pure as He sees His Son, my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
Those "hypocrites" are some of the most godly men and women that I have ever known ... far more than I or anyone else I know. My grandfather is one such "hypocrite," when I look at him and my pastors I see the reflection of God ... there is something about them that just draws you to them. I'd like to be like that as I continue to grow. Do you what they gave up for the sake of the Gospel?
The teachers of the law are only hypocrites because they didn't practice what they preached. It had everything to do with their priority and nothing to do with their money or them getting paid by the tithes of the offerings. I ask you to use logic when approaching this discussion and the Bible.
And just what does Jesus say?
Um, those examples that I gave are in-line with the teachings of Jesus and the other apostles if you'd care to look at them.
We see time and time again in Paul's letters that we are to follow the example of Jesus, for example Romans 6:1-14 and Philippians 2:5-11, among others. Following Jesus is to be expected if we make Him our Lord and Saviour - Paul wouldn't have had to write, you have to follow Jesus, because it is a natural flow-on from accept Christ.
As for giving, for one example, Paul does tells us not to "forget to do good and to share with those in need. These are the sacrifices that please God" (Hebrews 13:16).
He is a preacher whose aim is not only to get people saved but to increase the strength of believer's faith in Christ by teaching them how to live godly lives and endure persecution, which if you've read his letters, you'll notice that it is exactly what he did... Another part of this is teaching sound theology as well and refuting compromise, and he did this as well in his letters...
That is not what Paul said, he himself when he came up against that kind of reasoning said:
"Should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more kindness and forgiveness? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? Or have you forgotten that when we became Christians and were baptized to become one with Christ Jesus, we died with Him? For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. ... He died once to defeat sin, and now He lives for the glory of God. So you should consider yourselves dead to sin and able to live for the glory of God through Jesus Christ. Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give into its lustful desires. ... Instead, give yourselves completely to God since you have been given new life. And use your whole body as a tool to do what is right for the glory of God. Sin is no longer your master, for you are no longer subject to the Law, which enslaves you to sin. Instead, you are free by God's grace." (Exerts from Romans 6:1-14).
Paul is clearly implying that because of what Jesus did for us, we have a new nature, one that desires to follow Him and give glory to God by doing so. He touches on the same thing as James does, but he instead chooses to focus on the grace side more so than actions, but actions are clearly implied here.
In Christ, [presumably ex-] prostitutes and tax-collectors are holy and sinless in the sight of God as they have been washed by the blood of Jesus, as you and I have. When God sees these people, He sees them as blameless and pure as He sees His Son, my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I can answer your whole post by answering this question.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jesus says:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]21 Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do. 22 When Judgement Day comes, many will say to me, Lord, Lord! In your name we spoke God's message, by your name we drove out many demons and performed many miracles! 23 Then I will say to them, I never knew you. Get away from me, you wicked people![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And he says:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]13 Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it. 14 But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And Jesus insists that people should follow him (Matthew 16:24, Matthew 19:21, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 18:22, John 12:26), in other words do what he teaches.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jesus says give up what you have and follow him in verses like Luke 14:33, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22, Matthew 19:21 and Luke 12:33. A paid priest cannot teach people to follow what Jesus says in these verses because it would be hypocritical consequenty priests lean towards Paul and so propagate Pauline theology.[/FONT]
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Lisa0315
Respect Catholics and the Mother Church!
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Paul worked during his ministry to support himself and his ministry. Secondly, he gave his health and his very life for the cause of Christ. This is a man who followed in the footsteps of Jesus.
Tell you what. If all the church members would spend their time witnessing, inviting people to church, visiting the sick, ministering to the grieving, then, maybe our pastors could hold down a full time job.
What is so ironic to me is how shabbily many of our pastors are treated financially, and yet, they continue on for their entire lives. Pastors may retire, but they do not stop preaching until their health is gone.
My brother sold everything he had, his house, his car, and left all of us behind to go to Bible college. He worked two full time jobs and still graduated a year early. Part of his study program required him to minister to the residents of inner city Chicago, many of which threatened his life.
After graduation, he went to a small church of 20 members. He had to continue to work full time along with all the responsibilities of a pastor. Pretty soon, his little church grew to over 100, and my brother was able to quit his full time job so that he could spend his time studying the word of God, visiting the elderly, sick and bereaved. He lives so far north that they very nearly have snow on the ground 8 months out of 12. Part of his "job" as pastor is to drive a snow plow to all the elderly members houses and clear their driveways as well as the church parking lot.
I haven't seen my brother in over a year. Before that it had been two years. He came home a year ago because our grandfather passed away, and the church paid for him to come home to co-perform the service. Usually, my brother and his wife have to save up for a visit home, and they cannot do this more than once ever couple of years. They used to drive 19 hours to get here, but his wife's health is no longer well enough for that kind of travel, and airfare is out of the question for them financially.
His wife works full time, teaches Sunday School, and keeps the home for my brother.
I am really shocked at the idea that our pastors should be expected to not be supported by the members of their church. It is unthinkable. Do you think they live like rich people?
Maybe there are some wealthy ministers out there. Who knows? But, most are not. Most die without a thing to pass down to their children. No home of their own, no cars. All of it is owned by the church. As my uncle says, (who is also a pastor), he is just a vote away from being homeless. My uncle actually keeps his CDL license up to date just in case the church were to go under.
Where do you think retired pastors go? Do you think they go to a nice retirement village in Florida? Do you think the church provides them with a nice home, cars, and perpetual income? Nope. Most of the ones I know end up in an RV traveling the country preaching from church to church dependent on the generosity of those churches to eat and buy gas. They do that until they die. When they die, their widows depend on family and social security. If they are fortunate, the church may have put something aside for them.
You need to reconsider your position on our men of God. They are God's to judge, not yours.
Lisa
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I do not judge individuals and it sounds like they do good things. But payment for priests is completely against what Jesus says. I am judging an infrastructure that is against the teaching of Jesus. The church system should not exist, neither should priests and neither should Paul's letters. In the absence of these things people would be able to do what Jesus says far more easily, rather than being told that hymn singing is the way forward.
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ACTS 9:3
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Yes he didnt see Jesus himself but, he saw the light and that light was so bright, it blinded him for three days, so therefore he didn't see no man.
I went to that web sight and no hunny that web sit is evil. NOT Paul! If anyone who knows there bible and knows what it says can see that whoever wrote those things KNOW there bible too and is hoping some poor soul who dont know much will read these false things and lean closer to your evil doings.
ACTS 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Paul/Saul) IS A CHOSEN VESSEL UNTO ME, TO BEAR MY NAME BEFORE THE GENTILES, AND THE KINGS, AND THE CHILDERN OF ISRAEL:
That web site is right down wronge in sooooo many ways I'm literlly cring as we speak. I prey there worped mind heals.
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Yes he didnt see Jesus himself but, he saw the light and that light was so bright, it blinded him for three days, so therefore he didn't see no man.
I went to that web sight and no hunny that web sit is evil. NOT Paul! If anyone who knows there bible and knows what it says can see that whoever wrote those things KNOW there bible too and is hoping some poor soul who dont know much will read these false things and lean closer to your evil doings.
ACTS 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Paul/Saul) IS A CHOSEN VESSEL UNTO ME, TO BEAR MY NAME BEFORE THE GENTILES, AND THE KINGS, AND THE CHILDERN OF ISRAEL:
That web site is right down wronge in sooooo many ways I'm literlly cring as we speak. I prey there worped mind heals.
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MARK777
Defender of the Faith
Ok lets take a look at some of the attributes of God, God is perfect, his ways are perfect, God has omniscience (all knowledge) omnipresence (everywhere at the same time) Omnipotence (Unlimited Power)
God is not the Autor of confusion, God can never be wrong, God is fair, God is just, God is love.
Why on earth would God allow Pauls teachings to enter the bible if they were false?
if your statements were true then dont you think God would have the power to make sure Pauls teaching does not enter the bible?
God used Paul as an example to all that anyone can be saved, to complete the bible God needed to use someone who had 100% humility, what better person than the person that was persecuting him prior to salvation, a humble person is teachable, there wouldnt be 1 spec of pride in the mind of Paul after finding out the person he was persecuting was the Truth and the light.
When Paul converted to Christianity he went from a Jew to a Christian, because of his conversion Paul had hostility on both sides, Jews and Christians, because of this situation God was able to reveal the mistery Doctrines of the Church Age to Paul, he was the perfect candidate.
God is not the Autor of confusion, God can never be wrong, God is fair, God is just, God is love.
Why on earth would God allow Pauls teachings to enter the bible if they were false?
if your statements were true then dont you think God would have the power to make sure Pauls teaching does not enter the bible?
God used Paul as an example to all that anyone can be saved, to complete the bible God needed to use someone who had 100% humility, what better person than the person that was persecuting him prior to salvation, a humble person is teachable, there wouldnt be 1 spec of pride in the mind of Paul after finding out the person he was persecuting was the Truth and the light.
When Paul converted to Christianity he went from a Jew to a Christian, because of his conversion Paul had hostility on both sides, Jews and Christians, because of this situation God was able to reveal the mistery Doctrines of the Church Age to Paul, he was the perfect candidate.
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Jeus never forbade the Church to support its priests so they could devote their lives to the service of God's people instead of being forced to spend a good chunck of their time working . . . . .
You are fabricating rules that don't exist . . . .
.
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I appreciate that you all want to defend the man you've probably believed in all your lives - Paul. However, I have no interest in defending Paul - I'm defending Jesus. Here is a collection of extracts from the online article http://www.worldends.co.uk/english/archive52.pdf. I add things to it all the time as I see more false teachings from Paul.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]What is false teaching? This is an essential question to ask. False teaching is anything that tells us how to live in a way that contradicts with how Jesus teaches us how to live. So the teachings of Paul are false because they tell us how to live and they are different from how Jesus teaches us how to live. By contrast, an example of teaching that is not false is identifying communication from God (unless it tells us how to live in a way contradictory to how Jesus teaches us to live).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul's false teaching is extremely difficult to identify because[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]One thing that should strike you when you start reading Romans is this. In 1:18-32 Paul says how bad everyone is, condemning them for their immorality and so on (note that at the time the Jews did not have the benefit of teaching from Jesus, so on what basis did he judge them?). Then just afterwards in 2:1 he says "Do you, my friend, pass judgement on others?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So he spends half a chapter judging others, then condemns others for judging. Most of the judging he does is for sexual immorality, yet Jesus doesn't seem especially bothered about that given his friendship with Mary Magdalane and also says that the prostitutes and tax collectors are going to the Kingdom ahead of those he was teaching. The teachings of Jesus are focused on helping the poor and outcasts to society.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 21[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Parable of the Two Sons [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]28 Now, what do you think? There was once a man who had two sons. He went to the elder one and said, Son, go and work in the vineyard today. 29 I don't want to, he answered, but later he changed his mind and went. 30 Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. Yes, sir, he answered, but he did not go. 31 Which one of the two did what his father wanted? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The elder one, they answered. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So Jesus said to them, I tell you: the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the Kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John the Baptist came to you showing you the right path to take, and you would not believe him; but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. Even when you saw this, you did not later change your minds and believe him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Another thing that stands out is this paragraph:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 7:18-20[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]18 I know that good does not live in me that is, in my human nature. For even though the desire to do good is in me, I am not able to do it. 19 I don't do the good I want to do; instead, I do the evil that I do not want to do. 20 If I do what I don't want to do, this means that I am no longer the one who does it; instead, it is the sin that lives in me. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In other words, he is saying that because his intentions are good then if he does something sinful then it isn't really his fault, but something separate from him that lives inside him (as if sin is a free living organism). Sin is what people choose to do that goes against the teachings of Jesus - people have free will and we can't attribute our choices to sin itself.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A related verse is this one: Romans 12:3 judge yourselves according to the amount of faith that God has given you. It isn't up to God to give us faith it is up to us to do what Jesus said and to have faith in order to be able to do it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 14:1-12 is all about faith and dietary restrictions. Faith has nothing to do with dietary restrictions. Faith is knowing that what Jesus says is true, so you really can do what he says without worrying about where your food, clothing etc. are coming from.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Here is an example of Paul's false teaching:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul says "The elders who do good work as leaders should be considered worthy of receiving double pay, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching." - 1 Tim 5:17.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jesus says give up what you have and follow him in verses like Luke 14:33, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22, Matthew 19:21 and Luke 12:33. A paid priest cannot teach people to follow what Jesus says in these verses because it would be hypocritical consequenty priests lean towards Paul and so propagate Pauline theology.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul also creates church traditions, after Jesus denounced existing teachers of the Law as hypocrites, and identified people wearing fancy clothes as living in palaces (a perfect description of the modern day cathedral).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Here is another example of false teaching from Paul[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 Corinthians 14:33-38 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As in all the churches of God's people, 34 the women should keep quiet in the meetings. They are not allowed to speak; as the Jewish Law says, they must not be in charge. 35 If they want to find out about something, they should ask their husbands at home. It is a disgraceful thing for a woman to speak in church. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]36 Or could it be that the word of God came from you? Or are you the only ones to whom it came? 37 If anyone supposes he is God's messenger or has a spiritual gift, he must realize that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38 But if he does not pay attention to this, pay no attention to him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So after oppressing women he then states that he is the supreme authority on the teachings of Jesus! Yet Jesus was quite happy to talk with a Samaritan woman and associate with a prostitute.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Here is another example of a teaching from Paul that is false. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul treats Jesus as an idol of forgiveness - a replacement for animal sacrifices. For example:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 3:21-26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]How We are Put Right with God [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]21 But now God's way of putting people right with himself has been revealed. It has nothing to do with law, even though the Law of Moses and the prophets gave their witness to it. 22 God puts people right through their faith in Jesus Christ. God does this to all who believe in Christ, because there is no difference at all: everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence. 24 But by the free gift of God's grace all are put right with him through Christ Jesus, who sets them free. 25-26 God offered him, so that by his blood he should become the means by which people's sins are forgiven through their faith in him. God did this in order to demonstrate that he is righteous. In the past he was patient and overlooked people's sins; but in the present time he deals with their sins, in order to demonstrate his righteousness. In this way God shows that he himself is righteous and that he puts right everyone who believes in Jesus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 6:5-10[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 For since we have become one with him in dying as he did, in the same way we shall be one with him by being raised to life as he was. 6 And we know that our old being has been put to death with Christ on his cross, in order that the power of the sinful self might be destroyed, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin. 7 For when people die, they are set free from the power of sin. 8 Since we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that Christ has been raised from death and will never die again death will no longer rule over him. 10 And so, because he died, sin has no power over him; and now he lives his life in fellowship with God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 8:31-35[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]God's Love in Christ Jesus [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]31 In view of all this, what can we say? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Certainly not God, who did not even keep back his own Son, but offered him for us all! He gave us his Son will he not also freely give us all things? 33 Who will accuse God's chosen people? God himself declares them not guilty! 34 Who, then, will condemn them? Not Christ Jesus, who died, or rather, who was raised to life and is at the right-hand side of God, pleading with him for us! 35 Who, then, can separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble do it, or hardship or persecution or hunger or poverty or danger or death? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So are these people also dying to put us right with God? http://www.wdm.org.uk/deathcounter/. This website shows a live update on child deaths from poverty. Jesus came as a representative of the poor and those who bear the sins of others. (eg. he says if you give a drink to the least person, then you give it to him). People like those in this link are dying because of the sins of rich western nations - they are taking on the role of Jesus. Do you see? Jesus is not an idol of forgiveness - he was teaching what happens to people who bear the sins of others. If you believe your sins vanish, which is the implication of Paul's teaching, then there is no reason to follow Jesus - consequently the poor continue to suffer.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jesus says:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 7:21-23[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]21 Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do. 22 When Judgement Day comes, many will say to me, Lord, Lord! In your name we spoke God's message, by your name we drove out many demons and performed many miracles! 23 Then I will say to them, I never knew you. Get away from me, you wicked people![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And he says:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 7:13-14[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]13 Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it. 14 But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And Jesus insists that people should follow him (Matthew 16:24, Matthew 19:21, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 18:22, John 12:26), in other words do what he teaches.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]What is false teaching? This is an essential question to ask. False teaching is anything that tells us how to live in a way that contradicts with how Jesus teaches us how to live. So the teachings of Paul are false because they tell us how to live and they are different from how Jesus teaches us how to live. By contrast, an example of teaching that is not false is identifying communication from God (unless it tells us how to live in a way contradictory to how Jesus teaches us to live).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul's false teaching is extremely difficult to identify because[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He constantly asserts himself as a specially chosen apostle of Christ[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He continually tells people not to judge and to accept his foolishness[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He goes to great lengths to make himself appear harmless[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He repeatedly insists that he is not lying[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He constantly warns against false teaching[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He uses all the right keywords and phrases things very eloquently[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He was actually a forerunner in spreading the Gospel! But how clever of Satan to put an inside man into the heart of the process.[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul talks about Satan as an enemy[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul claims he imitates Jesus[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul's letters contain end times prophesy, so people look elsewhere (not at him) as the source of the end, because he is seen as an authority on the subject.[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]His letters are in the New Testament itself forming part of the scripture.[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul emphasizes his own suffering and martyrdom to give his teaching further credence.[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul is labelled as a Saint[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He condemns those who preach a gospel message different from the one that they (he) preaches eg. In Galatians 1:8.[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He continually denounces the Law but subtly introduces a new one[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]He asserts that he is the least apostle and the least of all people (this is what Jesus says you have to be in order to be the greatest. Eg. Ephesians 3:8 I am less than the least of all God's people. - He is saying that he is greater than Jesus in the Kingdom of Heaven)[/FONT]
- [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All of Paul's greetings at the ends of his letters to many people make him sound very popular. People gravitate towards popular people, even if Paul might not actually have been as popular as he makes out![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]One thing that should strike you when you start reading Romans is this. In 1:18-32 Paul says how bad everyone is, condemning them for their immorality and so on (note that at the time the Jews did not have the benefit of teaching from Jesus, so on what basis did he judge them?). Then just afterwards in 2:1 he says "Do you, my friend, pass judgement on others?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So he spends half a chapter judging others, then condemns others for judging. Most of the judging he does is for sexual immorality, yet Jesus doesn't seem especially bothered about that given his friendship with Mary Magdalane and also says that the prostitutes and tax collectors are going to the Kingdom ahead of those he was teaching. The teachings of Jesus are focused on helping the poor and outcasts to society.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 21[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Parable of the Two Sons [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]28 Now, what do you think? There was once a man who had two sons. He went to the elder one and said, Son, go and work in the vineyard today. 29 I don't want to, he answered, but later he changed his mind and went. 30 Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. Yes, sir, he answered, but he did not go. 31 Which one of the two did what his father wanted? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The elder one, they answered. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So Jesus said to them, I tell you: the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the Kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John the Baptist came to you showing you the right path to take, and you would not believe him; but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. Even when you saw this, you did not later change your minds and believe him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Another thing that stands out is this paragraph:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 7:18-20[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]18 I know that good does not live in me that is, in my human nature. For even though the desire to do good is in me, I am not able to do it. 19 I don't do the good I want to do; instead, I do the evil that I do not want to do. 20 If I do what I don't want to do, this means that I am no longer the one who does it; instead, it is the sin that lives in me. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In other words, he is saying that because his intentions are good then if he does something sinful then it isn't really his fault, but something separate from him that lives inside him (as if sin is a free living organism). Sin is what people choose to do that goes against the teachings of Jesus - people have free will and we can't attribute our choices to sin itself.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A related verse is this one: Romans 12:3 judge yourselves according to the amount of faith that God has given you. It isn't up to God to give us faith it is up to us to do what Jesus said and to have faith in order to be able to do it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 14:1-12 is all about faith and dietary restrictions. Faith has nothing to do with dietary restrictions. Faith is knowing that what Jesus says is true, so you really can do what he says without worrying about where your food, clothing etc. are coming from.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Here is an example of Paul's false teaching:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul says "The elders who do good work as leaders should be considered worthy of receiving double pay, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching." - 1 Tim 5:17.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jesus says give up what you have and follow him in verses like Luke 14:33, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22, Matthew 19:21 and Luke 12:33. A paid priest cannot teach people to follow what Jesus says in these verses because it would be hypocritical consequenty priests lean towards Paul and so propagate Pauline theology.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul also creates church traditions, after Jesus denounced existing teachers of the Law as hypocrites, and identified people wearing fancy clothes as living in palaces (a perfect description of the modern day cathedral).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Here is another example of false teaching from Paul[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 Corinthians 14:33-38 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As in all the churches of God's people, 34 the women should keep quiet in the meetings. They are not allowed to speak; as the Jewish Law says, they must not be in charge. 35 If they want to find out about something, they should ask their husbands at home. It is a disgraceful thing for a woman to speak in church. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]36 Or could it be that the word of God came from you? Or are you the only ones to whom it came? 37 If anyone supposes he is God's messenger or has a spiritual gift, he must realize that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38 But if he does not pay attention to this, pay no attention to him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So after oppressing women he then states that he is the supreme authority on the teachings of Jesus! Yet Jesus was quite happy to talk with a Samaritan woman and associate with a prostitute.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Here is another example of a teaching from Paul that is false. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul treats Jesus as an idol of forgiveness - a replacement for animal sacrifices. For example:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 3:21-26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]How We are Put Right with God [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]21 But now God's way of putting people right with himself has been revealed. It has nothing to do with law, even though the Law of Moses and the prophets gave their witness to it. 22 God puts people right through their faith in Jesus Christ. God does this to all who believe in Christ, because there is no difference at all: everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence. 24 But by the free gift of God's grace all are put right with him through Christ Jesus, who sets them free. 25-26 God offered him, so that by his blood he should become the means by which people's sins are forgiven through their faith in him. God did this in order to demonstrate that he is righteous. In the past he was patient and overlooked people's sins; but in the present time he deals with their sins, in order to demonstrate his righteousness. In this way God shows that he himself is righteous and that he puts right everyone who believes in Jesus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 6:5-10[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 For since we have become one with him in dying as he did, in the same way we shall be one with him by being raised to life as he was. 6 And we know that our old being has been put to death with Christ on his cross, in order that the power of the sinful self might be destroyed, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin. 7 For when people die, they are set free from the power of sin. 8 Since we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that Christ has been raised from death and will never die again death will no longer rule over him. 10 And so, because he died, sin has no power over him; and now he lives his life in fellowship with God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 8:31-35[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]God's Love in Christ Jesus [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]31 In view of all this, what can we say? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Certainly not God, who did not even keep back his own Son, but offered him for us all! He gave us his Son will he not also freely give us all things? 33 Who will accuse God's chosen people? God himself declares them not guilty! 34 Who, then, will condemn them? Not Christ Jesus, who died, or rather, who was raised to life and is at the right-hand side of God, pleading with him for us! 35 Who, then, can separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble do it, or hardship or persecution or hunger or poverty or danger or death? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So are these people also dying to put us right with God? http://www.wdm.org.uk/deathcounter/. This website shows a live update on child deaths from poverty. Jesus came as a representative of the poor and those who bear the sins of others. (eg. he says if you give a drink to the least person, then you give it to him). People like those in this link are dying because of the sins of rich western nations - they are taking on the role of Jesus. Do you see? Jesus is not an idol of forgiveness - he was teaching what happens to people who bear the sins of others. If you believe your sins vanish, which is the implication of Paul's teaching, then there is no reason to follow Jesus - consequently the poor continue to suffer.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jesus says:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 7:21-23[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]21 Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do. 22 When Judgement Day comes, many will say to me, Lord, Lord! In your name we spoke God's message, by your name we drove out many demons and performed many miracles! 23 Then I will say to them, I never knew you. Get away from me, you wicked people![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And he says:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 7:13-14[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]13 Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it. 14 But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And Jesus insists that people should follow him (Matthew 16:24, Matthew 19:21, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 18:22, John 12:26), in other words do what he teaches.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
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vinsight4u
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Yes, I believe that the trinity exists. And I believe in Jesus. The two words "believe" here have different meanings.
The first means that I know of the existance of the Trinity - so it confers knowledge/familiarity (similarly I could believe in a chair, bus, rock, cloud etc). God is the "I AM" ie., he exists.
The second means that I believe what Jesus says is the Truth, and therefore follow it. This is quite different, and is what Jesus means by belief. A very similar concept is faith - knowing that God will arrange the Universe in such a way that allows you to do what Jesus says.
The first means that I know of the existance of the Trinity - so it confers knowledge/familiarity (similarly I could believe in a chair, bus, rock, cloud etc). God is the "I AM" ie., he exists.
The second means that I believe what Jesus says is the Truth, and therefore follow it. This is quite different, and is what Jesus means by belief. A very similar concept is faith - knowing that God will arrange the Universe in such a way that allows you to do what Jesus says.
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MARK777
Defender of the Faith
Hmmm, it seems that you dont even have the basic doctrines down and your using what you dont understand to affirm what you want others to beleive, anyone can take scriptures and make them say anything they want if they mix and read them out of context!
Now who's under the influence of Satan, Paul or you?
I dont even think you understand the actual evil of the statement you are making, you are saying that God has allowed a message from satan to enter and mix with his word, it makes no sense, dont you think when all the scripture was put together to make the completed canon of scripture (bible) God would make sure that it is all truth, wouldnt God have revealed himself to the first translators if their was something which could be added that is false.
You are directly attacking the essense of God with this statement, God is sovereign not Satan, God is all powerful, not Satan.
How can Satan have the power to do something against God's will, are you saying he has more power ? ? think long and hard on these statements you are making.
If you except that God is all powerful and still think Pauls teaching is false, then you are calling God a liar, God is light and life, he cannot lie and is not the Author of confusion, either that statement by God himself is wrong or the statement made by you is wrong.
I know who Im sticking with.
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vinsight4u
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vinsight4u
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MARK777 - the essense of God as you put it is Jesus - what he says. I'm not attacking the essense of God by saying that Paul teaches incorrectly. It is Paul himself who says that all scripture is valid (convenient?).
vinsight4u - I did read it. Exodus 25 is about the covenant box. You'll have to explain what you mean.
In reponse to your second post imagine the following scenario.
A food company, say Bird's Eye wants to sell some new food (Super-Fish) to the general public. Super-fish is very special because it contains twice as much protein, vitamins and minerals as any other fish. So Bird's Eye hires a company that specialises in boxes and distribution, so that Bird's Eye can get the Super-Fish to the shops. The advertising company designs the box that Super-Fish should go in. Unfortunately the advertising company misrepresents Super-Fish so that people don't know about it's extra special qualities. Then it distributes them to the shops. People do buy Super-Fish, but they don't know how special it is, so they buy poorer makes of fish as well.
Paul is similar to this advertising company - he misrepresents the Gospel even though he helped distribute it. The result is that people don't actually do what Jesus tells us to do. If they did, Christianity would be completely different - it would be unrecognisable from the church system that we have now.
vinsight4u - I did read it. Exodus 25 is about the covenant box. You'll have to explain what you mean.
In reponse to your second post imagine the following scenario.
A food company, say Bird's Eye wants to sell some new food (Super-Fish) to the general public. Super-fish is very special because it contains twice as much protein, vitamins and minerals as any other fish. So Bird's Eye hires a company that specialises in boxes and distribution, so that Bird's Eye can get the Super-Fish to the shops. The advertising company designs the box that Super-Fish should go in. Unfortunately the advertising company misrepresents Super-Fish so that people don't know about it's extra special qualities. Then it distributes them to the shops. People do buy Super-Fish, but they don't know how special it is, so they buy poorer makes of fish as well.
Paul is similar to this advertising company - he misrepresents the Gospel even though he helped distribute it. The result is that people don't actually do what Jesus tells us to do. If they did, Christianity would be completely different - it would be unrecognisable from the church system that we have now.
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