Sola Scripturists guide on the authority of the Bible

[sunlover1]

why is it a sad thread and why is it telling?

YOU will have to read the threads...
On the surface it's all silly and you know what contests.
Grab some popcorn and read them as if you're looking
at them with the eyes of Christ..
Then you'll see.
and you'll pray...........

I'm not pointing any fingers, but i've seen alot of sleight of hand work lately

Crazy stuff going on ..
Nothing new under the sun.
If you mean me, I am certainly unaware of it,
but hey, the heart is deceitful above all things
and desperately wicked, who can know it?

 

[Ortho_Cat]

YOU will have to read the threads...
On the surface it's all silly and you know what contests.
Grab some popcorn and read them as if you're looking
at them with the eyes of Christ..
Then you'll see.
and you'll pray...........

Crazy stuff going on ..
Nothing new under the sun.
If you mean me, I am certainly unaware of it,
but hey, the heart is deceitful above all things
and desperately wicked, who can know it?

naw i wasn't referring to you sister, just a lighthearted jest

 

[sunlover1]

naw i wasn't referring to you sister, just a lighthearted jest

Goodnight "brother"..
Thanks for considering me fam.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Goodnight "brother"..
Thanks for considering me fam.

gnite, i could have done without the quotation marks tho...

 

[Philothei]

I think we need a bit to stand back and see what is Tradition and what is "tradition of men/man"; I think we will both agree that there is a difference here. Doing theology using the Scripture plus "T"radition (not of men but the Church) never stoped to take place.
It is obvious that the Bible does not authenticate the Bible... The Fathers used 'Tradition" that was evident even in the OT to support ortho-dogma.

Now some prayers for all of us here to consider and take a breatther ...I thought we could all agree since we are in this Fasting period :

YouTube - Simonopetra Monastery Monks - Polyeleos, Psalm 135

Pslam 135
*Hallelujah! *Praise the name of the *LORD!
*Praise him, you servants of the *LORD!
v2 You are standing in the house of the *LORD.
You are standing in the *courts of the house of our God.
v3 *Praise the *LORD, because the *LORD is good.
*Praise his name with songs, because it is *pleasant to do this.
v4 (*Praise his name) because the *LORD chose *Jacob for himself.
Israel is his own *treasure.
v5 (*Praise his name) because I know that the *LORD is great.
Our *Lord is greater than all other gods.
v6 The *LORD does whatever he wants to do.
(He does this) in the sky and on the earth.
(And he does it) in the deepest parts of the sea.
v7 (The *LORD) makes clouds rise up all over the earth.
He sends rain with *lightning.
He brings winds from where he stores them.
v8 (God) destroyed the *firstborn in Egypt, both men and animals.
v9 He sent signs to *warn Egypt. He did *miracles in Egypt.
(He did them) to *warn *Pharaoh and his servants.
v10 He destroyed many countries and killed many kings.
v11 (He killed) Sihon the king of the *Amorites.
(He also killed) Og the king of *Bashan and all the kings of *Canaan.
v12 Then he gave their lands to his people Israel.
He gave (their lands) to them as a gift.
v13 *LORD, people will always remember your name.
You will always be famous.
v14 And the *LORD will *defend his people.
Also, he will show his love to his servants.
v15 (Other) countries make their *idols with *silver and gold.
Human hands made (those *idols)!
v16 They have mouths ... but they cannot speak!
(They have) eyes ... but they cannot see!
v17 (They have) ears ... but they cannot hear!
(They have) mouths ... but they cannot *breathe!
v18 The people that made them will become as they are.
Also, everyone that *trusts in them (will become as they are).
v19 House of Israel, *bless the *LORD.
House of Aaron, *bless the *LORD.
v20 House of Levi, *bless the *LORD.
(Everyone) that is afraid of him, *bless the *LORD.
v21 Zion, *bless the *LORD that lives in Jerusalem.
*Hallelujah!
YouTube - Psalm 134 Byzantine Chants According to the Seventy english sub.



ETA: *mistake of the first pslam it is 136... got confused as it is with the Septuagint ...*

Psalm 136

1 Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good.
His love endures forever.
2 Give thanks to the God of gods.
His love endures forever.
3 Give thanks to the Lord of lords:
His love endures forever.

4 to him who alone does great wonders,
His love endures forever.
5 who by his understanding made the heavens,
His love endures forever.
6 who spread out the earth upon the waters,
His love endures forever.
7 who made the great lights—
His love endures forever.
8 the sun to govern the day,
His love endures forever.
9 the moon and stars to govern the night;
His love endures forever.
10 to him who struck down the firstborn of Egypt
His love endures forever.
11 and brought Israel out from among them
His love endures forever.
12 with a mighty hand and outstretched arm;
His love endures forever.
13 to him who divided the Red Sea[a] asunder
His love endures forever.
14 and brought Israel through the midst of it,
His love endures forever.
15 but swept Pharaoh and his army into the Red Sea;
His love endures forever.
16 to him who led his people through the wilderness;
His love endures forever.
17 to him who struck down great kings,
His love endures forever.
18 and killed mighty kings—
His love endures forever.
19 Sihon king of the Amorites
His love endures forever.
20 and Og king of Bashan—
His love endures forever.
21 and gave their land as an inheritance,
His love endures forever.
22 an inheritance to his servant Israel.
His love endures forever.
23 He remembered us in our low estate
His love endures forever.
24 and freed us from our enemies.
His love endures forever.
25 He gives food to every creature.
His love endures forever. 26 Give thanks to the God of heaven.
His love endures forever.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.



ACCOUNTABILITY....


It only matters if truth does. If truth doesn't matter, the entire issue of this (and similar) threads won't matter. It will be ignored or treated in a light, humorous way or perhaps enormous efforts to change the subject and get any attention off the issue of truth and accountability (at least for self or the denomination of self).


Some suggest that the "Tradition" of self is MORE inerrant, MORE inspired by God, MORE reliable, MORE objectively knowable by all and alterable by none, MORE ecumenically (say to 50,000 denominations) and historically (say to 1400 BC) embraced than is Scripture: If I agree with me, I'm ergo correct. It's silly on the face of it - besides the reality that obviously no one knows what this "tradition" is, there is no agreement beyond a current understanding of a single denomination, so how can it be a rule (at least beyond that singular denomination)?


Some other just skip that and argue that while accountability is absolutely critical for every OTHER view and every OTHER teacher/denomination, self simply exempts self from the whole thing (defending that contradiction in creative, prideful, purely circular ways).




.

 

[ivebeenshown]

When is that going to be counted as spam? Like, do you really have to paste that all the time?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think we need a bit to stand back and see what is Tradition and what is "tradition of men/man"; I think we will both agree that there is a difference here. Doing theology using the Scripture plus "T"radition (not of men but the Church) never stoped to take place.
It is obvious that the Bible does not authenticate the Bible... The Fathers used 'Tradition" that was evident even in the OT to support ortho-dogma.

Now some prayers for all of us here to consider and take a breatther ...I thought we could all agree since we are in this Fasting period :

YouTube - Simonopetra Monastery Monks - Polyeleos, Psalm 135

Pslam 135
*Hallelujah! *Praise the name of the *LORD!
*Praise him, you servants of the *LORD!
v21 Zion, *bless the *LORD that lives in Jerusalem.
*Hallelujah!

YouTube - Psalm 134 Byzantine Chants According to the Seventy english sub.

Very nice!
Thou almost persuadest me to become an Othodox

Acts 26:28 The yet Agrippa toward the Paul said "In few me thou are persuading a Christian[Orthodox] to become"?

Textus Rec.) Acts 26:28 o de agrippaV proV ton paulon efh en oligw me peiqeiV cristianon genesqai

 

[sunlover1]

gnite, i could have done without the quotation marks tho...

LOL
I didn't mean it in a sarcastic way.
But since I was real tired (and fighting
a nasty sore throat, stuffy etc POOR
me ) maybe we could overlook it
... BRO...

Pslam 135
*Hallelujah! *Praise the name of the *LORD!
*Praise him, you servants of the *LORD!
v2 You are standing in the house of the *LORD.
You are standing in the *courts of the house of our God.
v3 *Praise the *LORD, because the *LORD is good.
*Praise his name with songs, because it is *pleasant to do this.
v4 (*Praise his name) because the *LORD chose *Jacob for himself.
Israel is his own *treasure.
v5 (*Praise his name) because I know that the *LORD is great.
Our *Lord is greater than all other gods.
v6 The *LORD does whatever he wants to do.
(He does this) in the sky and on the earth.
(And he does it) in the deepest parts of the sea.
v7 (The *LORD) makes clouds rise up all over the earth.
He sends rain with *lightning.
He brings winds from where he stores them.
v8 (God) destroyed the *firstborn in Egypt, both men and animals.
v9 He sent signs to *warn Egypt. He did *miracles in Egypt.
(He did them) to *warn *Pharaoh and his servants.
v10 He destroyed many countries and killed many kings.
v11 (He killed) Sihon the king of the *Amorites.
(He also killed) Og the king of *Bashan and all the kings of *Canaan.
v12 Then he gave their lands to his people Israel.
He gave (their lands) to them as a gift.
v13 *LORD, people will always remember your name.
You will always be famous.
v14 And the *LORD will *defend his people.
Also, he will show his love to his servants.
v15 (Other) countries make their *idols with *silver and gold.
Human hands made (those *idols)!
v16 They have mouths ... but they cannot speak!
(They have) eyes ... but they cannot see!
v17 (They have) ears ... but they cannot hear!
(They have) mouths ... but they cannot *breathe!
v18 The people that made them will become as they are.
Also, everyone that *trusts in them (will become as they are).
v19 House of Israel, *bless the *LORD.
House of Aaron, *bless the *LORD.
v20 House of Levi, *bless the *LORD.
(Everyone) that is afraid of him, *bless the *LORD.
v21 Zion, *bless the *LORD that lives in Jerusalem.
*Hallelujah!

Amen!

I will bless the LORD at all times;
His praise shall continually be in my mouth.
2 My soul shall make its boast in the LORD;
The humble shall hear of it and be glad.
3 Oh, magnify the LORD with me,
And let us exalt His name together.

4 I sought the LORD, and He heard me,
And delivered me from all my fears.
5 They looked to Him and were radiant,
And their faces were not ashamed.
6 This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him,
And saved him out of all his troubles.
7 The angel[a] of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him,
And delivers them.

8 Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good;
Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!
9 Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints!
There is no want to those who fear Him.
10 The young lions lack and suffer hunger;
But those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing.

11 Come, you children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
12 Who is the man who desires life,
And loves many days, that he may see good?
13 Keep your tongue from evil,
And your lips from speaking deceit.
14 Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.

15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
16 The face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears,
And delivers them out of all their troubles.
18 The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart,
And saves such as have a contrite spirit.

19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the LORD delivers him out of them all.
20 He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken.
21 Evil shall slay the wicked,
And those who hate the righteous shall be condemned.
22 The LORD redeems the soul of His servants,
And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.

Thus saith the Lord!

 

[Thekla]

Amen!

I will bless the LORD at all times;
His praise shall continually be in my mouth.
2 My soul shall make its boast in the LORD;
The humble shall hear of it and be glad.
3 Oh, magnify the LORD with me,
And let us exalt His name together.

4 I sought the LORD, and He heard me,
And delivered me from all my fears.
5 They looked to Him and were radiant,
And their faces were not ashamed.
6 This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him,
And saved him out of all his troubles.
7 The angel[a] of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him,
And delivers them.

8 Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good;
Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!
9 Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints!
There is no want to those who fear Him.
10 The young lions lack and suffer hunger;
But those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing.

11 Come, you children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
12 Who is the man who desires life,
And loves many days, that he may see good?
13 Keep your tongue from evil,
And your lips from speaking deceit.
14 Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.

15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
16 The face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears,
And delivers them out of all their troubles.
18 The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart,
And saves such as have a contrite spirit.

19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the LORD delivers him out of them all.
20 He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken.
21 Evil shall slay the wicked,
And those who hate the righteous shall be condemned.
22 The LORD redeems the soul of His servants,
And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.

Thus saith the Lord!

What a blessing !

glory be to God in all things +

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by sunlover1 Amen!

I will bless the LORD at all times;

What a blessing !

glory be to God in all things +

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YNG
(blessing)
occurs 85 times in 80 verses in the YNG

Last time used in Bible

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2129&t=KJV

Young) Revelation 7:12 saying, `Amen! the blessing/eulogia <2129>, and the glory, and the wisdom, and the thanksgiving, and the honour, and the power, and the strength, [are] to our God--to the ages of the ages! Amen!'

 

[Standing Up]

Hey SU, did you see my post from the other thread?

Guess I missed your post about Oneness Pentecosts instead of Arius. Do you not think the Trinity is shown in scripture?

I'm all for scripture-only with apostle-tied-tradition (they'll come out the same).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Guess I missed your post about Oneness Pentecosts instead of Arius. Do you not think the Trinity is shown in scripture?

I'm all for scripture-only with apostle-tied-tradition (they'll come out the same).

That was brought up on this other thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7246132/#post57055476
Scripture as my measure

Originally Posted by ivebeenshown Scripture is indeed a measure, in that it is the authoritative word of God and tradition cannot and must not conflict with scripture.

Who is going to deny this much?

 

[Standing Up]

The Rule of Scripture is that Scripture is the rule in the norming of doctrines (especially those in dispute). Yes - for Christians, that obviously would be Christian Scripture that is meant by 'Scripture.'

Yes, it is true that 4 denominations each have a slightly UNIQUE canon - a slightly UNIQUE embrace of what is and is not Scripture, they are the OO, EO, RC and LDS. In each of the 4 cased, self only totally agrees with self. But for the other 49,996 denominations (if some Catholics are correct and there are 50,000 denominations), they have the same books -in fact, those are embraced by the other 4, as well.

So, the fact that baptist and lutheran agree on 66 books is more authoritative than 1 billion RC agreeing on theirs?

IOW, you've gone from Christians agreeing to groups agreeing.

The deal is I'd say there is a way to define which scriptures besides self/self.

But there's an attempt here to make "much ado about NOTHING." Only in the case of the LDS is this anything of an issue, because only it's unique books make any difference in the debate over doctrines among us

Not so. Maccabees supports the notion of praying to deceased and purgatory. It's not much ado ...

But enough for now.

 

[Standing Up]

That was brought up on this other thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7246132/#post57055476
Scripture as my measure

I feel as though we do those Christians, especially the martyrs of that age, a disservice in thinking they didn't know right and wrong doctrine and we can't at least learn something from them.

Having said that, the rule of faith for them was scripture; but I acknowledge that some lived it out.

 

[GadFly]

You guys are all excellent scholars and we admire your fine explanatory statements about the word of God. It has been a pleasure to pick your brains but in doing so, I have had to consult my dictionary to make sure I was correctly understanding what you guys were talking about. You guys have certainly worked yourselves into a position to where you can understand God very well. Great theology, but then I thought, is it not wonderful how the Holy Spirit has managed the canonicalization of the Bible so that fellows like me who have never had Theology 101 can still read the Bible and discover God.

My hobbies in life have been natural philosophy and Biblical studies where it is pleasurable to find that what is discovered in natural philosophy is confirmed by scriptures. To simply understand this is not the answer in preaching the Gospe. The question is, how can we make sola scripture be understandable to the world which is filled mainly with inferiorly educated people compared to these philosophers and theologians that are telling us about God. The word of God, however, is of such a nature that we can make it acceptable to the common man/woman/child.

This drip-down effect must have been difficult for the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John with their logos and dabar philosophy. Their level of understanding was tremendous and how they translated their message to 1000's who could not read and write. My interest on this forum and thread is to spark more participation of common Wesleyan folk in discussing the deep things of God with scholars like you guys. What can be done to spark more participation on these wonderful threads?

 

[sunlover1]

Great theology, but then I thought, is it not wonderful how the Holy Spirit has managed the canonicalization of the Bible so that fellows like me who have never had Theology 101 can still read the Bible and discover God.

Amen. Me too!
It was through studying the Bible as a teenager/young adult that I found
out about the Grace of God!
Thank you so much for reminding me that His Word is simple enough for
a dumb blond to have 'gotten it'.

Good to have you here Gadfly

 

[laconicstudent]

When is that going to be counted as spam? Like, do you really have to paste that all the time?

How about now?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You guys are all excellent scholars and we admire your fine explanatory statements about the word of God. It has been a pleasure to pick your brains but in doing so, I have had to consult my dictionary to make sure I was correctly understanding what you guys were talking about. You guys have certainly worked yourselves into a position to where you can understand God very well. Great theology, but then I thought, is it not wonderful how the Holy Spirit has managed the canonicalization of the Bible so that fellows like me who have never had Theology 101 can still read the Bible and discover God.

My hobbies in life have been natural philosophy and Biblical studies where it is pleasurable to find that what is discovered in natural philosophy is confirmed by scriptures. To simply understand this is not the answer in preaching the Gospe. The question is, how can we make sola scripture be understandable to the world which is filled mainly with inferiorly educated people compared to these philosophers and theologians that are telling us about God. The word of God, however, is of such a nature that we can make it acceptable to the common man/woman/child.

This drip-down effect must have been difficult for the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John with their logos and dabar philosophy. Their level of understanding was tremendous and how they translated their message to 1000's who could not read and write. My interest on this forum and thread is to spark more participation of common Wesleyan folk in discussing the deep things of God with scholars like you guys.

What can be done to spark more participation on these wonderful threads?

Put a link to the GT board in your siggy

 

[Standing Up]

Amen. Me too!
It was through studying the Bible as a teenager/young adult that I found
out about the Grace of God!
Thank you so much for reminding me that His Word is simple enough for
a dumb blond to have 'gotten it'.

Good to have you here Gadfly

What she said, except for the blond hair part, more like gray