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My point is that the first bishops were appointed by and succeeded the apostles, and that this succession continues today.
My point is that the first bishops were appointed by and succeeded the apostles, and that this succession continues today.
Your point is wrong. The apostles did appoint the first overseers but there was no succession of apostles. The office of apostle ceased once the apostles died.
Dang CJ!I think we should make that a sticky on GT as you posted the same thing in another thread
http://www.christianforums.com/t7541281/#post57042186
Patience is a gift of mine.
I'd do it:
The Rule of Scripture in Norming (What Luther and Calvin called "Sola Scriptura")
The verse is talking about gifts not the office. Try again.
Yes there is a big distinction. Show me where Paul and Luke disagree.
Dang CJ!
Perhaps you should put this in yer siggy!
.
Paul to Timothy:
2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.
See, I read those words and here's what I think they say: And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.
The RCC teaches those "words" and says, "You infallible, unaccountable men whose words are God's words, your ability will be re-gifted to others in perpetuity when the RC Denomination appoints someone in your place, who then is equally incapable of being wrong - a quality they share with the denomination that appointed them, for Jesus said to the RC denomination: Whoever hears you hears me, and since Jesus is immune to accountability, so is the RC denomination and all it appoints - unless it says one is messing up."
In my Catholic years, I learned that according to the RCC, nearly everything in the Bible is about the RCC and all the POWER it has so that all are to be in quiet, docilic submission to itself as unto God. Things just get "read" so as to "say" that. Pretty soon, it seems like the actual words God put there don't have any significance or meaning. So it seemed to me.
Note carefully what I said, I did not say that the apostolic office itself continued. I said that the office of the bishops (the highest authority after the apostes) took it's place with regards to preservance of church doctrine and teaching, and were commissioned by the apostles to do so and continue teaching other's the same.
Teach, brother, not go lead a bunch of single denominational churches. I am a deacon and teacher at my church. This past year I led a discipleship class for mature and reliable Christians that were interested in teaching. I entrusted what Paul, through the scripture, had taught me to them. This is what Paul teaches not some mystical pass down of power or some legalistic succession.Paul to Timothy:
2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.
I am not here to convince you. No one wins these kind of debates. My writings here are for the lurker and those wanting to learn a biblical view of this topic.Just because you say it's there doesn't convince me that it is...
Again, show me the scriptural evidence of the distinction among gift receiving and official apostles. Paul and Luke call Paul, Barnabas, and Timothy Apostles. I'm pretty sure at least Luke knew what it meant to call someone an apostle...
I am not repeating myself. I have posted many verses to support such in this thread and others. Go find them.
I'm sorry, but this just doesn't make sense. If scripture is your norm, don't you want to make sure you have all the right 'scripture'?
IIRC I was focusing on the 27 books of the NT. Which I thought all Christians agreed on up to today...
Nope. The office of overseer did not take the place of the office of apostle. Nothing in scripture teaches that.
Teach, brother, not go lead a bunch of single denominational churches. I am a deacon and teacher at my church. This past year I led a discipleship class for mature and reliable Christians that were interested in teaching. I entrusted what Paul, through the scripture, had taught me to them. This is what Paul teaches not some mystical pass down of power or some legalistic succession.
Actually, there are at least four different scriptural canons in use today in the Christian world.
Some only have 22 books, others more; some missing books that are in the 27, some use books that are not in the 27.
Which group has the inspired collection?
If you do the sign of the Cross, don't you want know who is president of the USA? Probably, but the practice of one isn't the same as the knowledge of the other. .
This is all I can come up with...
Deacon: Again we pray for our country, our President, all civil authorities and those in public service.
People: +Lord have mercy.
Actually, Tradition was used to combat Arius -- as both sides had Scriptural support. In fact, what was received/believed is what identified Arius's teaching as being in error.
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