Sola scriptura

[Albion]

No, there is a way Christ taught his Apostles to worship when they worshiped together.

How do you know what it was?

There was certainly a particular way they sang hymns.

How do you know what it was?

 

[sculleywr]

There is no need to answer it. It is a loaded question with no weight to it. God's Word trumps man's word every time.


...

SO what are God's words and how do you know they are God's words?

God's Word is not a book, dude. God's Word is the Son of God Himself. There is no substitute.

As to the Scripture, unless you have God saying that the canon made by Christ-hating Jews of the 6th century is better than the one made by those looking forward to Christ and used by those who died in the name of Christ, I'll stick with the men who died for Christ in the first 5 centuries over the Jews which hated Him.

So again, what makes your canon better than mine? I didn't load the question. You did. You have no authority in your scriptures because you can't even say for certain why they are Scripture.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I'll take that as you saying that you're unable to answer the challenge put to you. Good try, though, but you lose this game of the "Search for Evidence" gameshow.

This is the second time you have mentioned losing. Did not know we were playing War Games.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NHWjlCaIrQo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

The music should bring you closer to Messiah. Are you in a position to determine what kind of music that might be?

Not of my own authority, that would be prelest. But I do affirm the kind of music that the Church uses and endorses. The question of being closer to the Messiah includes the correct feeling and attitude, the correct "phronema".

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

What makes you say so?

Because they have been part of the deposit of faith since the early Church and the Church affirms them as of Christ.

 

[Albion]

Because they have been part of the deposit of faith since the early Church and the Church affirms them as of Christ.

You're repeating what the church says is the case, I take it. But is there any actual evidence that Christ taught hermits how to live, for example, or what the light emanating from the Transfiguration was? And why would knowing that be necessary for salvation?

 

[civilwarbuff]

The Protestant is his own authority, though in practice many protestants just go along with whatever pastor Bob says and pew surf their whole lives (don't worry, it's also an issue over on this side of the world, too). He has a whole buffet of doctrines that are somehow backed by this, that, or the other interpretation of Scripture. And as far as they are concerned, each and every one of them, no matter how contradictory, is equally valid.

No, the Holy Spirit is my authority....something the Orthodox never seem to talk about....almost as if He does not exist.....

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

You're repeating what the church says is the case, I take it. But is there any actual evidence that Christ taught hermits how to live, for example?

No. There's no evidence Christ had long hair either.

 

[sculleywr]

What makes you say so?

Well, we can observe the historical evidence.

We know that He didn't teach Sola Scriptura because Scripture does not plainly state it. Either that, or the millions of people who died in defense of the Faith and wrote many of the foundational creeds and explanations of our faith are too stupid to see it. I mean really, you have to assume that Athanasius, John Chrystostom, Symeon the New Theologian, Cyprian, and countless other seminal Christian writers were too stupid to notice something that was supposedly sitting in broad daylight. SS isn't an obvious teaching. It is a manmade interpretation that contradicts its own standards, since it places itself and the Canon above Scripture.

We could look at the fact that liturgical worship was pretty much the ONLY way in which Jews worshiped. We do know of one group that preferred a lack of liturgical worship in the time of the Apostles. Unfortunately, these were the Gnostics, not the Christians. It was for this reason that Paul wrote that all things should be done "decently and in order". The emotional outbursts that were common in Gnostic services, as well as the unstructured spontaneous "revelations" that were encouraged in their services, and still show up in certain Protestant churches today (I know, I've seen it with my own two eyes and though I was dreaming because I couldn't imagine the insane stories I had heard were really true).

We can look and see that Icons were a common part of Jewish and early Christian worship.

We can look and see that structured forms for the Sacraments were being formulated as early as the Didache's form for Baptism, or the early forms of the Liturgy of St. James (so named because it is done in honor of the saint, and not because he wrote it all, since I doubt he knew anything about travel by air shown in modern forms of that service), some of which date to the second century.

We can also look and see that these important parts of worship, which were defined in detailed manner in the Old Testament are not even TOUCHED in the New.

 

[civilwarbuff]

No, there is a way Christ taught his Apostles to worship when they worshiped together. There was certainly a particular way they sang hymns. Although Christ himself most likely wasn't innovating a new style here, but following an ancient one.

And scripture supports that "opinion" in what way?

 

[Albion]

No. There's no evidence Christ had long hair either.

I know that. How about getting back to the examples you offered us and said that they were taught in the church from the beginning and came from Christ?

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

No, the Holy Spirit is my authority....something the Orthodox never seem to talk about....almost as if He does not exist.....

We talk about him a lot, we just don't approve one using the Holy Spirit to give oneself, as an individual, personal authority, unless you're a prophet. Yes, saying, "I know this because the Holy Spirit told me so," is not really our thing.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

And scripture supports that "opinion" in what way?

I'm don't adhere to Sola Scriptura.

 

[civilwarbuff]

We can look and see that Icons were a common part of Jewish and early Christian worship.

Are there reference to icons in the NT?

 

[Albion]

I'm don't adhere to Sola Scriptura.

We already know that.

The question was how do you know how Christ taught the Apostles to sing? You said he did and that you know this to be so.

 

[civilwarbuff]

We talk about him a lot, we just don't approve one using the Holy Spirit to give oneself, as an individual, personal authority, unless you're a prophet. Yes, saying, "I know this because the Holy Spirit told me so," is not really our thing.

So 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not carry much weight with the Orthodox I take it?

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

I know that. How about getting back to the examples you offered us and said that they were taught in the church from the beginning and came from Christ?

No, there is no evidence in writing. I trust it because Christ said the Gates of Hades would not prevail over his Church, and if the Church taught false doctrines, that would mean the Gates of Hades prevailed. You might ask, "Well how do you know the ORTHODOX Church is the one he was referring to?"

First of all, no Protestant denomination is older than the Reformation, so their entire premise that the Gates of Hades did prevail, but the Church was brought back; this doesn't work.

Secondly, the Catholic Church teachings things that go blatantly against tradition such as the Papacy (Christ did not call a chair the Rock, he called Peter's person the Rock; Peter did not hold a higher office, as shown by 1 Peter 5:1; Pope Leo IX, in provoking the Great Schism, appeal exclusively to the Donation of Constantine as the source of his higher power.)

So we're left with the Orthodox Church.

 

[sculleywr]

No, the Holy Spirit is my authority....something the Orthodox never seem to talk about....almost as if He does not exist.....

You've apparently never been to an Orthodox service. The Holy Spirit is the first Person of the Trinity we pray to in pretty much every service, prayer rule, or Sacrament.

You like to act as if the Spirit is your authority, but I'm sorry, you have presented, as yet, no evidence to the effect and you CAN present no evidence to that effect. Arius claimed he was following the Holy Spirit. Joseph Smith claimed he was following the Holy Spirit. Mohammed went so far as to claim that the angel of God came to him, as did Joseph Smith. Your claim to having the Spirit as your authority is EXACTLY as valid as Joseph Smith's. In other words, it's all a bunch of pretty words that I put as much stock in as the possibility that someone is actually going to purchase a license for WinRAR.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

We already know that.

The question was how do you know how Christ taught the Apostles to sing? You said he did and that you know this to be so.

I don't have any proof, but you think they didn't sing in worship?

 

[civilwarbuff]

I'm don't adhere to Sola Scriptura.

This is what I was questioning from your comment:
"No, there is a way Christ taught his Apostles to worship when they worshiped together. There was certainly a particular way they sang hymns. Although Christ himself most likely wasn't innovating a new style here, but following an ancient one."

So, I will ask again: and scripture supports that "opinion" in what way?