• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Sola Scriptura

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟879,220.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Hey folks. I’m looking for resources for defending sola scriptura. Audio, video, articles and even a list of books. It would be beneficial if the defense of the sola scriptura also dealt with the underlying manuscripts or how the doctrine of inspiration is affected by textual criticism.

Thanks,

j
 

abacabb3

Newbie
Jul 14, 2013
3,217
564
✟91,561.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

abacabb3

Newbie
Jul 14, 2013
3,217
564
✟91,561.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Wasn't Tertullian a Montanist?

Yes. He left the Catholic Church because he wanted works-based salvation, which the Catholicism at that time considered heresy. For example, he thought that it was "adultery" for widowers to remarry...even though there are several Bibilical imperatives that admonish widows to marry.

That's what happens when we take extra-biblical sources of truth ("tradition," new prophecies, etc.) over the Scripture.
 
Upvote 0
Oct 21, 2003
6,793
3,289
Central Time Zone
✟122,193.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Years ago I purchased a set of three books from Alpha & Omega Ministries bookstore entitled "Holy Scripture - The Ground and Pillar of our Faith" by William Webster and David T. King. They are still available: Books - Roman Catholicism - Christian Apologetics Dr. White also wrote the book "Scripture Alone". Then there is a neat little book entitled "Sola Scriptura: The Protestant Position on the Bible" which is a collection of articles written by Joel Beeke, Sinclair Ferguson, Robert Godfrey, Ray Lanning, John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, Derek W. H. Thomas, and James White. R.C. Sproul wrote the book "Scripture Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine".

Once classic defense of Sola Scriptura is by William Whitaker entitled "Disputations on Holy Scripture". It can be found here: Disputations on Holy Scripture - Reformation Heritage Books Somewhat difficult to find elsewhere, a bit on the expensive side for folk like me.

I'll see if I can't come up with some audio resources,
 
  • Like
Reactions: JM
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟879,220.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟879,220.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
. . . we do not deny that it appertains to the church to approve, acknowledge, receive, promulge, commend the scriptures to all its members; and we say that this testimony is true, and should be received by all. We do not, therefore, as the papists falsely say of us, refuse the testimony of the church, but embrace it. But we deny that we believe the scriptures solely on account of this commendation of them by the church. For we say that there is a more certain and illustrious testimony, whereby we are persuaded of the sacred character of these books, that is to say, the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit, without which the commendation of the church would have with us no weight or moment. The papists, therefore, are unjust to us, when they affirm that we reject and make no account of the authority of the church. For we gladly receive the testimony of the church, and admit its authority ; but we affirm that there is a far different, more certain, true, and august testimony than that of the church. The sum of our opinion is, that the scripture is [autopistos], that is, hath all its authority and credit from itself; is to be acknowledged, is to be received, not only because the church hath so determined and commanded, but because it comes from God; and that we certainly know that it comes from God, not by the church, but by the Holy Ghost. Now by the church we understand not, as they do, the pastors, bishops, councils, pope; but the whole multitude of the faithful. For this whole multitude hath learned from the Holy Spirit that this scripture is sacred, that these books are divine. This persuasion the Holy Spirit hath sealed in the minds of all the faithful.
The state of the controversy, therefore, is this: Whether we should believe that these scriptures which we now have are sacred and canonical merely on account of the church’s testimony, or rather on account of the internal persuasion of the Holy Spirit; which, as it makes the scripture canonical and authentic in itself, makes it also to appear such to us, and without which the testimony of the church is dumb and inefficacious.

—William Whitaker, Disputations on the Holy Scriptures (Soli Deo Gloria, 2005), 279–28
 
Upvote 0

moonbeam

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
1,637
66
✟67,699.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist

This section of the linked essay above I found useful in regards the distinction between solo and sola scriptura.

Keith Mathison is responding to a critique of his book by two Roman Catholics respondence Cross and Judisch who come from a Reformed background and are relatively recent converts to Roman Catholicism.



The Alleged Contradiction Internal to the Sola Scriptura Position

The second subsection of section four is titled “The Contradiction Internal to the Sola Scriptura Position.”

In this subsection Cross and Judisch note first that I say all appeals to Scripture are appeals to interpretations of Scripture. They then note that I say Scripture is the final authority. They then explain how these two ideas are supposedly contradictory:

But, if all appeals to Scripture are appeals to interpretations of Scripture, then it follows necessarily that either someone’s interpretation of Scripture is the final and authoritative norm of doctrine and practice, or Scripture itself cannot be the final and authoritative norm of doctrine and practice.

The conclusion does not follow. Interpretation is inherent in all communication and occurs whether we are consciously aware of it or not. Yet interpretation does not eliminate authority. If Jesus is standing before you and tells you something, the fact that you must interpret what He says in order to understand it does not mean that you have more authority than Jesus. But here is where the church comes into play and where one difference between sola scriptura and solo scriptura can be seen. Imagine Jesus is standing before you and thousands of other believers, and imagine that he commands all of you to turn a certain direction and march to a certain city. Now imagine you turn right and start walking only to notice that everybody else turned left and started walking. If you are an adherent of solo scriptura, you aren’t going to pay any attention to what anybody else did. You heard what Jesus said. There’s no interpretation involved. If you are an adherent of sola scriptura, you are going to notice that everybody else started marching in a different direction and you are going to stop and ask whether you misinterpreted what Jesus said because you realize that interpretation is involved in all communication and that as a sinner, you might have misinterpreted what He said. In any case, the fact that interpretation of Jesus’ words is necessary does not mean that those hearing and interpreting His words have more authority than Him.

According to Cross and Judisch: “Mathison’s position thus creates a dilemma for himself that cannot be resolved without ceasing to be Protestant.” As explained above, the dilemma they create is a false dilemma. Cross and Judisch continue:

There is no middle position between the Church having final interpretive authority and the individual having final interpretive authority. Mathison recognizes that all appeals to Scripture are appeals to interpretations of Scripture, and denies that the individual has final interpretive authority. But at the same time, as a Protestant, Mathison maintains that the individual can appeal to his or her own interpretation of Scripture to hold the Church accountable to Scripture, even to walk away from the Church (and thus treat himself as the continuation of the Church), otherwise Mathison would undermine the very basis for Protestants separating from the Catholic Church in the sixteenth century.

These sentences are based on Cross and Judisch’s already mentioned false assumption that the interpretation of an authoritative speaker somehow transfers that speaker’s authority to the hearer. One also sees in these sentences the assumption of Rome’s claim to be equivalent to the Catholic Church, when in fact, the church of Rome was one local church among many. Finally, Protestants did not separate from the Catholic Church. The papacy did that. The bishops deserted the flock. If the action of the Protestants is separation, it is separation from the local church of Rome, a branch that had become diseased to the point of death.

Is the Idea of Derivative Authority a Delusion?

Cross and Judisch state their objective for the next section of their paper in the following words:

We showed above how Mathison argued that the proponents of solo scriptura do not recognize the secondary (or derived) authority of the Church and of the creeds. But here we want to show that Mathison’s own position is essentially equivalent to the denial of secondary authority.

They explain:

Mathison claims here that the authority of the creeds and other judgments of the Church “derives from and depends upon their conformity with the inherently authoritative Word of God.” But recall that according to Mathison, all appeals to Scripture are appeals to interpretations of Scripture. Therefore, the notion that the authority of the creeds and other judgments of the Church “derives from and depends upon their conformity with the inherently authoritative Word of God” entails that the authority of creeds and other judgments of the Church depends upon their sufficient conformity to the individual’s interpretation of Scripture. In other words, Mathison’s position entails that the creeds and other judgments of the Church are ‘authoritative’ only insofar as they agree with the individual’s interpretation of Scripture.

No, as we observed above, the fact that all communication involves interpretation does not automatically change the locus of authority. To repeat, if Jesus is speaking to you, the fact that you have to interpret his words, does not mean that you are a higher authority than Jesus. If you are a soldier in the army listening to orders from your commanding officer, the fact that you have to interpret his words does not mean you are a higher authority than your commander. Furthermore, if you reject your commanding officer’s words, that does not mean that his authority is not real.
.
 
Upvote 0

Calvinist Dark Lord

Regular Member
Apr 8, 2003
1,589
468
Near Pittsburgh, which is NOT in Scotland!
✟35,306.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
This section of the linked essay above I found useful in regards the distinction between solo and sola scriptura.

Keith Mathison is responding to a critique of his book by two Roman Catholics respondence Cross and Judisch who come from a Reformed background and are relatively recent converts to Roman Catholicism.




There is no middle position between the Church having final interpretive authority and the individual having final interpretive authority. Mathison recognizes that all appeals to Scripture are appeals to interpretations of Scripture, and denies that the individual has final interpretive authority. But at the same time, as a Protestant, Mathison maintains that the individual can appeal to his or her own interpretation of Scripture to hold the Church accountable to Scripture, even to walk away from the Church (and thus treat himself as the continuation of the Church), otherwise Mathison would undermine the very basis for Protestants separating from the Catholic Church in the sixteenth century.

These sentences are based on Cross and Judisch’s already mentioned false assumption that the interpretation of an authoritative speaker somehow transfers that speaker’s authority to the hearer. One also sees in these sentences the assumption of Rome’s claim to be equivalent to the Catholic Church, when in fact, the church of Rome was one local church among many. Finally, Protestants did not separate from the Catholic Church. The papacy did that. The bishops deserted the flock. If the action of the Protestants is separation, it is separation from the local church of Rome, a branch that had become diseased to the point of death.
i'm surprised that you missed the fallacy of the excluded middle. One can say "Either A or Not A", but one cannot limit the domain of Not A.

Did i mention that i really HATE this new forum software?
 
Upvote 0

moonbeam

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
1,637
66
✟67,699.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
i'm surprised that you missed the fallacy of the excluded middle. One can say "Either A or Not A", but one cannot limit the domain of Not A.

Did i mention that i really HATE this new forum software?


Could you elaborate on what you mean, exactly, in regards the argumentation in that section of the article I posted? ...I am not sure what you are driving at.

In regards the new software…there does seem to be too much wasted grey spaces and poor delineation between distinct areas. I prefer the board to be geared for productive exchanges of thought between participants and hence adopt a denser format in regards content. I preferred the concept of 'private message' over the new 'start a conversation'..we all know this is a place to engage in conversation..but it is important to ensure that personal and intimate contact can be made, privately, between participants [especially in the intrusive nature of online activities] our walk with the Lord is a very private affair and touches upon distinctly sensitive matters, in many cases, and its important to be able to engage with people, should we feel so inclined, with a great deal of assurance of privacy…hence the importance of correct nomenclature i.e. "private message"….Anyways we will just have to roll with the punches.
 
Upvote 0

Calvinist Dark Lord

Regular Member
Apr 8, 2003
1,589
468
Near Pittsburgh, which is NOT in Scotland!
✟35,306.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Could you elaborate on what you mean, exactly, in regards the argumentation in that section of the article I posted? ...I am not sure what you are driving at.

In regards the new software…there does seem to be too much wasted grey spaces and poor delineation between distinct areas. I prefer the board to be geared for productive exchanges of thought between participants and hence adopt a denser format in regards content. I preferred the concept of 'private message' over the new 'start a conversation'..we all know this is a place to engage in conversation..but it is important to ensure that personal and intimate contact can be made, privately, between participants [especially in the intrusive nature of online activities] our walk with the Lord is a very private affair and touches upon distinctly sensitive matters, in many cases, and its important to be able to engage with people, should we feel so inclined, with a great deal of assurance of privacy…hence the importance of correct nomenclature i.e. "private message"….Anyways we will just have to roll with the punches.

There is no middle position between the Church having final interpretive authority and the individual having final interpretive authority.

Seems rather self-evident.
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,487
10,856
New Jersey
✟1,339,492.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
There is no middle position between the Church having final interpretive authority and the individual having final interpretive authority.

Perhaps not, but there are different understandings of what authority means. I would argue that in the Reformed tradition, only the Church can speak authoritatively, but that it is a somewhat limited kind of authority. We understand that churches have erred and can err. Thus they are accountable to God and to their own members. An individual or group can maintain that the church is wrong, and try to change its position. In doing so they will quite likely advocate an interpretation that is different from the church’s. That is not illegitimate. In doing so they are not speaking authoritatively but they may be speaking correctly.
 
Upvote 0

moonbeam

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
1,637
66
✟67,699.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
"There is no middle position between the Church having final interpretive authority and the individual having final interpretive authority."

Seems rather self-evident.

Not quite so evident to the original authors it seems...Which might seem surprising when you consider their credentials [for example] "The article is attributed to Bryan Cross and Dr. Neal Judisch. According to their website, Cross is a graduate of Covenant Theological Seminary (M.Div.) and currently a Ph.D. student at Saint Louis University. He converted to Roman Catholicism in 2006. Judisch is a professor of philosophy at the University of Oklahoma"

Its possible they were aware of alternatives between the two positions stated but concluded they lacked sufficient merit to successfully challenge the two positions posited?…or perhaps they choose to use a rhetorical device to achieve the ascendancy in regards positioning the Church of Rome at the heavier end of the scales of public opinion…by fair means or foul…so to speak.

As for my personal opinion - Its quite clear that the truth of the matter is positioned perfectly balanced, in the middle, between both positions.

Would you agree?
.
 
Upvote 0

Calvinist Dark Lord

Regular Member
Apr 8, 2003
1,589
468
Near Pittsburgh, which is NOT in Scotland!
✟35,306.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Not quite so evident to the original authors it seems...Which might seem surprising when you consider their credentials [for example] "The article is attributed to Bryan Cross and Dr. Neal Judisch. According to their website, Cross is a graduate of Covenant Theological Seminary (M.Div.) and currently a Ph.D. student at Saint Louis University. He converted to Roman Catholicism in 2006. Judisch is a professor of philosophy at the University of Oklahoma"

Its possible they were aware of alternatives between the two positions stated but concluded they lacked sufficient merit to successfully challenge the two positions posited?…or perhaps they choose to use a rhetorical device to achieve the ascendancy in regards positioning the Church of Rome at the heavier end of the scales of public opinion…by fair means or foul…so to speak.

As for my personal opinion - Its quite clear that the truth of the matter is positioned perfectly balanced, in the middle, between both positions.

Would you agree?
.
No i do not agree. For the most part i believe scripture to be self-interpreting limited only by the parameters of the whole. Where conflict does exist, Somebody, --maybe both parties to the conflict-- is or are wrong. While this does not exclude the study of the original languages and how they were used by the people speaking them at that time, the translations we have are pretty reflective of those times, at least as much as it is possible for a translation to be. (And therein lies your third alternative).

Practically speaking it has been my experience that for the most part formerly Reformed who have converted to Catholicism have either been poor logicians, theologians, historians, or emotional converts of one sort or another. In other words, "They weren't 'good enough' to cut it as Reformed"


 
Upvote 0