Sola Scriptura

Tzaousios · Apr 4, 2012

dollarsbill said:
What makes you think I'm not?

What you have said has not led me to think that you are any different than other Protestants who villify Catholicism based upon their perception of what it might be and the resulting paranoia.

Standing Up · Apr 4, 2012

Sola scripture is the belief scripture contains everything necessary for salvation.

Don't some groups believe other things are necessary as revealed by popes or councils? Some believe without Acts 15, we'd all still be sacrificing over and over the flesh.

steve_bakr · Apr 4, 2012

Albion said:
Not to badger you, but you normally cite the church's official stance. Why are you resorting to a personal feeling in this case?

Because I don't know what the Church's position is in this type of situation. But my knowledge of this individual is that she is a very devout Protestant Christian, but she no longer believes the teachings of the Catholic Church. I like to believe all will be well for her. There are people whose temperament doesn't seem to do well in the Catholic Church, and they enjoy the worship style of evangelical Protestant churches. I like to believe that neither the Church nor God would hold them responsible for that, but I have not heard what the Church's official position is in this case.

dollarsbill · Apr 4, 2012

Tzaousios said:
What you have said has not led me to think that you are any different than other Protestants who villify Catholicism based upon their perception of what it might be and the resulting paranoia.

I have personally known many Catholics. I am not a Protestant and never have been.

Tzaousios · Apr 4, 2012

dollarsbill said:
I have personally known many Catholics.

How does that qualify you to comment on Catholicism and make value judgments about what they believe?

dollarsbill said:
And I am not a Protestant and never have been.

That's what they all say. What are you then?

dollarsbill · Apr 4, 2012

Tzaousios said:
How does that qualify you to comment on Catholicism and make value judgments about what they believe?

Did you even read my comment? Doesn't sound like it. I said: "I don't believe Catholic doctrines are Biblical doctrines."

That's what they all say.

I don't know who "they" are.

What are you then?

Christian.

steve_bakr · Apr 4, 2012

dollarsbill said:
So you're preaching that we must be baptized to be saved?

Every believer is required to be Baptized. This is the outward sign of God's grace. If you are not Baptized, I strongly suggest that you see a Pastor about having that done.

dollarsbill · Apr 4, 2012

steve_bakr said:
Every believer is required to be Baptized. This is the outward sign of God's grace. If you are not Baptized, I strongly suggest that you see a Pastor about having that done.

I was baptized, but not for salvation but to be obedient. Water baptism is not a Biblical requirement for salvation.

Standing Up · Apr 4, 2012

steve_bakr said:
Every believer is required to be Baptized. This is the outward sign of God's grace. If you are not Baptized, I strongly suggest that you see a Pastor about having that done.

It's regenerative. It's not a sign. See the cccc. Not to say, that is necessarily true.

Albion · Apr 4, 2012

steve_bakr said:
Because I don't know what the Church's position is in this type of situation.

All right. We'll drop it there, then.

But my knowledge of this individual is that she is a very devout Protestant Christian, but she no longer believes the teachings of the Catholic Church. I like to believe all will be well for her.

FWIW, I'm confident that you are right about that.

but I have not heard what the Church's official position is in this case.

daydreamergurl15 · Apr 4, 2012

dollarsbill said:
I was baptized, but not for salvation but to be obedient. Water baptism is not a Biblical requirement for salvation.

So disagree....but I know if we start on this topic in this thread it will get locked because it's off topic.

Tzaousios · Apr 4, 2012

dollarsbill said:
Did you even read my comment? Doesn't sound like it. I said: "I don't believe Catholic doctrines are Biblical doctrines."

Yes, I read it. But that statement neither establishes you as informed enough to make value judgments on their beliefs nor does it show that Catholic doctrines are not "Biblical."

dollarsbill said:
Christian.

Well, since you are clearly protesting the doctrines and beliefs or Roman Catholics, what does that make you?

I hope you are not one of those lonewolf non-denominationalists who conflate their particular interpretations of Scripture with "only repeating what the Bible plainly says."

dollarsbill · Apr 4, 2012

Tzaousios said:
Yes, I read it. But that statement neither establishes you as informed enough to make value judgments on their beliefs nor does it show that Catholic doctrines are not "Biblical."

Is your opinion the only one permitted here?

Well, since you are clearly protesting the doctrines and beliefs or Roman Catholics, what does that make you?

I'm not protesting anything. Again my statement was " I don't believe Catholic doctrines are Biblical doctrines."

I hope you are not one of those lonewolf non-denominationalists who conflate their particular interpretations of Scripture with "only repeating what the Bible plainly says."

What's wrong with what the Bible says? Nothing.

Albion · Apr 4, 2012

Standing Up said:
It's regenerative. It's not a sign.

That's just church language, SU. It means that it is a distinctive mark, regardless of whether or not it imparts grace, regenerates, forgives sin, or simply symbolizes something (the last of which I'm sure steve did not mean to suggest).

steve_bakr · Apr 4, 2012

Standing Up said:
It's regenerative. It's not a sign. See the cccc. Not to say, that is necessarily true.

You mean the CCC. Yes, in Catholicism Baptism is the means through which sins are washed away and man is infused with God's grace.

Tzaousios · Apr 4, 2012

dollarsbill said:
Is your opinion the only one permitted here?

No, not at all. Do you expect tacit agreement with everything that you assert about Roman Catholicism?

dollarsbill said:
I'm not protesting anything. Again my statement was " I don't believe Catholic doctrines are Biblical doctrines."

Yes, which makes a specific value judgment about Roman Catholic doctrines, and protests the assertion by Catholics that what they believe is Biblical.

dollarsbill said:
What's wrong with what the Bible says? Nothing.

Right, but their could be, and probably is, something wrong with the interpretations of the Bible that you make and conflate with "what the Bible plainly says."

Standing Up · Apr 4, 2012

steve_bakr said:
You mean the CCC. Yes, in Catholicism Baptism is the means through which sins are washed away and man is regenerated, as Paul has stated.

Probably need to start a thread again on John 3. Born-again-water and Spirit. What's it mean?

dollarsbill · Apr 4, 2012

Tzaousios said:
No, not at all. Do you expect tacit agreement with everything that you assert about Roman Catholicism?

You are simply attacking and arguing.

Tzaousios · Apr 4, 2012

dollarsbill said:
You are simply attacking and arguing.

No, but I do think you have not asked yourself the difficult questions about it and do not have an answer at hand. At least, you have not demonstrated it.

steve_bakr · Apr 4, 2012

Standing Up said:
Probably need to start a thread on John 3. Born-again-water and Spirit. What's it mean?

You're right. We seem to have drifted from the topic.

Regarding sola scriptura, it is the Catholic position that doctrinal truth is founded on not just Scripture alone, but the three pillars of Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition (as handed down by apostolic succesion), and the teaching authority of the Church (Magesterium). It is also the Catholic position that sola scriptura cannot be proved Biblically. But my wife is sola scriptura, so what's a soul to do? I just take it as something she sincerely believes, and I respect that.

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