Sola Scriptura

racer · May 3, 2005

Jay2004 said:
If you are, you would know that St. Augustine had over 1000 works and writings.

Many of them were on Sacred Tradition and how scripture should be interpretted along with tradition.

Show me, please.

Beoga · May 3, 2005

Jay2004 said:
The same could be said of any Protestant who supports it....

It's like the bible just fell out of the sky.......

It took hundreds of years to compile...

yes it is, it is sad that many protestants misuse and don't understand the idea of sola scripture. many use the concept of solo scriptura.
yet, the lack of understanding by many of the comments here is still sad

racer · May 3, 2005

InquisitorKind said:
What isn't cute is your understanding of Sola Scriptura or your meaningless criticism of it.

~Matt

Matt,

What I find amusing is the people who are so adept at spewing sarcasm when they are unable to logically respond to someone are unable to recognize sarcasm when it is used in kind.

racer · May 3, 2005

Jay2004 said:
the traditions of the church came before the bible

Then if the Bible is lacking the "Fullness of Truth," tell us what's missing?

Albion · May 3, 2005

It's like the bible just fell out of the sky.......

littleapologist said:
yes it is, it is sad that many protestants misuse and don't understand the idea of sola scripture. many use the concept of solo scriptura.
yet, the lack of understanding by many of the comments here is still sad

Yes, I can tell that you are really sad about that.

However, I've never encountered a single Protestant who believed--as was charged--that the Scriptures "fell out of the sky." Not even conceptually.

Most Protestants are particularly keen on studying the Bible. I think we all know that this is more aggressively done by Protestants than by Catholics of any sort. Therefore, all the exegesis, all the Bible commentaries and encyclopedias, all the Bible classes that are so common, should not be ignored in favor of a glib observation like "they think the Bible fell from the sky." If anything, they are ready and willing to tell inquirers exactly where the Bible came from, how it is arranged, what it's themes are, and so on.

In fairness, it seems that the non-Sola Scriptura side is the one struggling to understand.

DrBubbaLove · May 3, 2005

Letter to Januarius
"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church"

Guess who said that Lisa?

Does that not sound as least as important as keeping scripture?

Philip · May 3, 2005

racer said:
Then if the Bible is lacking the "Fullness of Truth," tell us what's missing?

It is not so much that the Bible is lacking as that some interpretations of the Bible are lacking.

OrthodoxyUSA · May 3, 2005

racer said:
Then if the Bible is lacking the "Fullness of Truth," tell us what's missing?

How about the proper way to be Baptised?

How to prepare the Communion?

Much Much more....

Forgive me...

OrthodoxyUSA · May 3, 2005

racer said:
Then if the Bible is lacking the "Fullness of Truth," tell us what's missing?

How about the proper way to be Baptised?

How to prepare the Communion?

Much much more....

Forgive me...

Oblio · May 3, 2005

I think we all know that this is more aggressively done by Protestants than by Catholics of any sort.

Yes, we all know that to be true. Or did you mean to use an adjective other than aggressively ?

Albion · May 3, 2005

Orthodoxyusa said:
How about the proper way to be Baptised?

How to prepare the Communion?

Much much more....

Forgive me...

You know, I don't quite follow that answer. The proper way to baptise is indeed described in scripture and so is how to prepare communion. But if you think that, for instance, having the right seal upon the bread (which admittedly is not in scripture) is essential to the faith.....how can that be so?

The obvious conclusion of many of us is that this is optional or adiaphora. The Bible tells us what is essential.

To compare optional methods with essential methods doesn't seem to be the argument that I thought was here on this thread. If Tradition and Scripture Alone are not, arguably, two sides or approaches to the same end, we can all agree to have both, can't we? I'll go by the Bible when doctrines are concerned, and I'll go with custom when deciding how to make up the Holy Table for Communion. In fact, that IS what we do.

Beoga · May 3, 2005

Oblio said:
Yes, we all know that to be true. Or did you mean to use an adjective other than aggressively ?

[while i see that you are not rc...]

i think that it is Karl Keating that says in his debates that if you look around the room and see someone with a bible, you know that they are not RC...

OrthodoxyUSA · May 3, 2005

Albion said:
The proper way to baptise is indeed described in scripture and so is how to prepare communion.

Can you point that out for me?

Forgive me...

racer · May 4, 2005

DrBubbaLove said:
Letter to Januarius
"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church"

Guess who said that Lisa?

Does that not sound as least as important as keeping scripture?

To me, no. From what I read here, Augustine (am I right?) is discussing customs or practices in the Church. I don't consider that to be of equal authority to Scripture.

racer · May 4, 2005

Orthodoxyusa said:
How about the proper way to be Baptised?

How to prepare the Communion?

Much much more....

Forgive me...

So, where are the instructions on these necessities to be found? What is the authority of this source?

racer · May 4, 2005

DrBubbaLove said:
Letter to Januarius
"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church"

Guess who said that Lisa?

Does that not sound as least as important as keeping scripture?

Ohhhhh, Bubba, Bubba, Bubba, this is why I love source references:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102054.htm

Letter 54 (A.D. 400)From Augustine to Januarius

To his beloved son Januarius, Augustine sends greetings in the Lord.

(Styled also Book I of Replies to Questions of Januarius.) CHAPTER I

1. In regard to the questions which you have asked me, I would like to have known what your own answers would have been; for thus I might have made my reply in fewer words, and might most easily confirm or correct your opinions, by approving or amending the answers which you had given. This I would have greatly preferred. But desiring to answer you at once, I think it better to write a long letter than incur loss of time. I desire you therefore, in the first place, to hold fast this as the fundamental principle in the present discussion, that our Lord Jesus Christ has appointed to us a "light yoke" and an "easy burden," as He declares in the Gospel : in accordance with which He has bound His people under the new dispensation together in fellowship by sacraments, which are in number very few, in observance most easy, and in significance most excellent, as baptism solemnized in the name of the Trinity, the Communion of His Body and Blood, and such other things as are prescribed in the canonical Scriptures, with the exception of those enactments which were a yoke of bondage to God's ancient people, suited to their state of heart and to the times of the prophets, and which are found in the five books of Moses. As to those other things which we hold on the authority, not of Scripture, but of tradition, and which are observed throughout the whole world, it may be understood that they are held as approved and instituted either by the apostles themselves, or by plenary Councils, whose authority in the Church is most useful, e.g. the annual commemoration, by special solemnities, of the Lord's passion, resurrection, and ascension, and of the descent of the Holy Spirit from heaven, and whatever else is in like manner observed by the whole Church wherever it has been established.

Doesn't say quite the same thing as your quote does it? What's your source? Recognize mine?

Iollain · May 4, 2005

Well we can either trust the Bible, or we can trust the Bible and Tradition. THe problem with that for me is trusting Bible and Tradition, you get into believing that ghosties come visit places and ask for repetitive worship and statues set up. I just cannot go there cause my God does not like statues set up so people can carry them around and put golden crowns on them and kiss them and stuff.

Philip · May 4, 2005

Iollain said:
Well we can either trust the Bible, or we can trust the Bible and Tradition.

This is a false dichotomy.

THe problem with that for me is trusting Bible and Tradition, you get into believing that ghosties come visit places and ask for repetitive worship and statues set up.

The logic here is flawed. One might also argue that by trusting the Bible, you into racism and slavery. Of course, this is a misuse of Scripture by a few.

Iollain · May 4, 2005

Philip said:
This is a false dichotomy.

The logic here is flawed. One might also argue that by trusting the Bible, you into racism and slavery. Of course, this is a misuse of Scripture by a few.

What is dichotomy in plain English.

Nope, you cannot read the bible and agree with slavery or racism.

Philip · May 4, 2005

Iollain said:
What is dichotomy in plain English.

'Dichotomy' means 'split into two parts'. A False Dichotomy is a logical error that either splits something into two parts when no division is possible or claims that only two options possible.

Nope, you cannot read the bible and agree with slavery or racism.

History would disagree with you.

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