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For the life of me, I cannot see how those verses prove anything against my post!This last statement is a false dichotomy.
John 6:63
Ephesians 6:17
And many others.
Agreed. Good points, all. Scripture is awesome, and inspired. But Sola Scriptura does not work. We *do* need help beyond ourselves. We need the Church.God is holy. Therefore, churches built on a platform of intellectual dishonesty are probably distancing themselves from His sanctifying revivals, healing graces and evangelistic unction.
Let's be honest, therefore, about the fact that we don't know what we're doing. We don't really know anything for sure, certainly not how to run a church.
Let us be especially honest about the fact that several popular doctrines are so problematical as to almost certainly be nonsense, case in point Sola Scriptura.
Sola Scriptura appears to be a logical absurdity that contradicts common sense and repudiates conversion. Evangelicals conveniently overlook this fact whenever they cite verses supposedly in favor of this 'doctrine' (if we even want to call it that).
You seem to repeat your assertions without directly addressing the arguments, for instance the argument in 42 where I challenged, 'If you feel convinced that action A is evil and action B is good, which one shall you commit to?" Surely B right? (Unless of course there are more options but either way you will try to commit to one that you feel certain is good, or the most-good/least-evil of all the options).No, in 33 you demonstrate that we can't find answers to every question that we think should be answered. But that's not the only understanding of sola scriptura.
To me sola scriptura says that Scripture is the only direct witness to God's acts in history. But the witnesses aren't inerrant, nor do they answer any question we want them to. But it's still where we need to go to find out what Jesus taught and what he did.
There's a lot to be said for the Wesleyan quadrilateral or the Anglican equivalent. Jesus, after all, left the Church with the authority to make decisions. But they should make those decisions grounded in Jesus' life and teachings.
The difficulty with 42 is that conscience is formed by our culture and our experiences. Those could be misleading if our culture has different priorities than God's.
So..........what else would you consult with?Sola Scriptura is the claim that the Bible is the only final authority on all major religious issues.
No, you shouldn't do evil. But what do you consider evil? Your conscience should be formed, at least in part, by Jesus' teaching. However we face questions today that the 1st Cent didn't. Hence it should also be formed, in part, as part of a Christian community that has grappled with those issues, based both on Jesus' teachings and on pastoral experience.Shall I intend on doing evil? If my conscience is currently convinced (feels certain), when faced with two choices A and B, that action A is evil and action B is good, what shall I do? (Pick whatever you like).
However, the problem with Sola Scripture lies between what God intended when it was written, and our flawed understanding of it.
And of course, there are countless things that God would reveal through his spiritual gifts that can never be judged against scripture.
So now you are saying that you PREFER something to Scripture. There is nothing in that which makes any of it more meaningful or accurate than the Bible--and certainly not more understandable, yet this was one of your main reservations about Scripture, that it might be misunderstood.For the last 40 odd years, the path of my life has been guided through prophecy, visions, dreams, words of knowledge, etc.
So is your point that no one can be fully confident they are saved?Yes anything new to you will be confusing, but some clarification ensued, if you had time to read all my posts.
The historic track record of the church institution, as a source of authority or direction is utterly ghastly.Agreed. Good points, all. Scripture is awesome, and inspired. But Sola Scriptura does not work. We *do* need help beyond ourselves. We need the Church.
BTW, you say it is new to me, when you know nothing about what I know. I say your communication is poor instead.Yes anything new to you will be confusing, but some clarification ensued, if you had time to read all my posts.
I agree with pretty much of all the statement (except any endorsement of Sola Scriptura). The problem is that the church hasn't bothered to clearly investigate the critiria for distinguishing 'when God is guiding you' (direct revelation) versus 'fallible efforts to interpret Scripture' (exegesis). So in actual practice, people tend to conflate the two. So here I'll attempt to clarify the distinction.In broad terms I accept Sola Scripture. However I only do so as a check on those who claim the church as the final authority.
However, the problem with Sola Scripture lies between what God intended when it was written, and our flawed understanding of it.
Ultimately, our understanding has to come with Holy Spirit guidance, otherwise we are no better than faithless naturally minded intellectuals, and no matter how much we know of scripture, it is of little value before the Lord.
1Cor2v14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Paul makes it clear that the Spirit of God is the final authority, because without revelation, God's intentions will remain foolishness to us.
And of course, there are countless things that God would reveal through his spiritual gifts that can never be judged against scripture.
For the last 40 odd years, the path of my life has been guided through prophecy, visions, dreams, words of knowledge, etc. The majority of which have concerned things like starting businesses, inventing things, buying cars, finding a wife, moving house, and having my life saved by a word of knowledge.
None of the above would be found by Sola Scripture.
Sure, but you'll need to be more specific. How do I know when I'm being 'guided'? Just assume it when I feel like it? What's the criteria?
Your conscience 'should' be informed by a book?No, you shouldn't do evil. But what do you consider evil? Your conscience should be formed, at least in part, by Jesus' teaching. However we face questions today that the 1st Cent didn't. Hence it should also be formed, in part, as part of a Christian community that has grappled with those issues, based both on Jesus' teachings and on pastoral experience.
Regardless of whether Scripture properly guided you in these circumstances, my point is that Scripture cannot be touted as the ONLY final authority (see my post 33).My understanding, and the way I live, is that you will know you are being guided when what you imagine the Holy Ghost is telling you does not contradict Scripture. That is why I follow the line of belief that says Scripture is a final authority.
For example, should a lady come and say to me, God has told me you will be my husband, I know that this cannot be God because I am already married and the Scripture says not to commit adultery.
Why the canon? Because there is so much written that is spurious you could be led to believe anything. We need to know what is God inspired and what is merely of men.
For such an example I would say that I would not consider anything Kenneth Hagin wrote as Scripture, even though he claims to have received his doctrine from Jesus. Why? Because he taught the exact opposite of what Jesus taught, and I know this from the gospels that are included in the Scripture.
Prophets experienced 100% certainty on many issues (including their own salvation in my opinion), and I think God wanted the prophetic anointing to flourish in all generations. All of us are supposed to be prophets (1Cor 14:1). The main thrust of the entire Corinthian epistle beginning mostly in chapter 2, I'd say, is that God defines spiritual maturity as mature prophethood.So is your point that no one can be fully confident they are saved?
Hm...Not sure why you'd think so. Mostly I've sought to clarify what illumination by the Spirit entails. I thus see three competing epistemologies:Is this "General Theology?" Sounds pretty "Controversial" to me.
You conveniently missed out the first part of my post!The first thing to do is to know what authority, source, etc. of information is the best. Then it is necessary to understand what it is telling us. But if someone misund3erstands, that does not invalidate the authority! The only way that could possibly make sense is if EVERYONE misunderstands the revelation or if it is flatly incapable of being understood. I see no reason to think that is the case with the Bible.
Absolutely yes, I do at times prefer somethings to scripture, ie. the direct voice of God in the right context. Perhaps you have never encountered it?So now you are saying that you PREFER something to Scripture.
The above examples have no need of a bible, so your last comments are rather meaningless.There is nothing in that which makes any of it more meaningful or accurate than the Bible--and certainly not more understandable, yet this was one of your main reservations about Scripture, that it might be misunderstood.
100% certain? Nothing. Honesty is the best policy.
The typical Christian who says, 'I am 100% certain of my salvation' probably doesn't understand what 100% certainty is. I imagine he's actually 99% certain.
How can the ALMIGHTY GOD be so Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent to oversee HIS Word?God is holy. Therefore, churches built on a platform of intellectual dishonesty are probably distancing themselves from His sanctifying revivals, healing graces and evangelistic unction.
Let's be honest, therefore, about the fact that we don't know what we're doing. We don't really know anything for sure, certainly not how to run a church.
Let us be especially honest about the fact that several popular doctrines are so problematical as to almost certainly be nonsense, case in point Sola Scriptura.
Sola Scriptura appears to be a logical absurdity that contradicts common sense and repudiates conversion. Evangelicals conveniently overlook this fact whenever they cite verses supposedly in favor of this 'doctrine' (if we even want to call it that).
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