Sodomites!!!!

[savedandhappy1]

God cannot be in the presence of sin? Well, what was Jesus doing then? Whoever tells you that Dave, well I disagree with them. Jesus came to me in sin. The Holy Spirit is love thy neighbor as thyself and peace and don't be greedy. Don't you see greed is what makes us kill each other? Watch Marie Antoinette; it's a movie.

I really didn't think I needed to explain what was meant by that statement, but I guess I was wrong. Since it is a misunderstanding and you didn't even bother to ask for a meaning well..........

And to Kathy (savedandhappy1), we are all still sinners even though we try out best every day... no one will ever be perfect except for Jesus Christ.

Really is that why I have stated that 100 times, and why I have posted just as many times how we have all fallen short. Again, maybe you should read all the post, and check on someone before jumping to a wrong conclusion.

When Jesus says "be ye perfect as I am perfect" he was speaking to the apostles about pride and prejudice. The apostles first thought Jesus was an earthly king of the Jews and they later realized he was the Messiah, the Savior of the whole world, and even unto us "ugh, at the time" gentiles, too. God is no respector of person's nor our works. All the glory goes to God for his son Jesus Christ.

No kidding. Again, unless you understand by checking on what a persons has said, and for sure know their meanings. Oh well, it really doesn't matter.

​

 

[davedjy]

I assure all of you, that an "unrepentant" homosexual Christian is no less worthy of heaven than any one here! I have already been told various things "I don't think I will see you in heaven", "you are going to hell", and as my current Worship Leader I play at various Churches said so beautifully "I don't judge whether you should be on the Worship Team, I judge your salvation!".

Hmm...but we as gays never get picked on...yeah, I don't see that at all here.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Amen, beautiful post!

My words were twisted around on me in a previous post, I never said any of those other things...I realize we deal with a dark force, but why am I going to say that w/homosexuality? I don't believe that is what is going on, so obviously there isn't a spiritual realm involved with that, lol.

You know my meaning in my post and you want to give praises for a post that has nothing to do with my meanings. Yeah way to go Dave!!

​

 

[davedjy]

You know my meaning in my post and you want to give praises for a post that has nothing to do with my meanings. Yeah way to go Dave!!

​

1) You said that God cannot be in the presence of sin

2) You said you agree with the Church doctrine that God gives homosexuals up to their lusts (that also means that they are no longer saved, which is what this crap BS doctrine DOES teach).

What part did I get wrong, please inform, and I will make a revision in what I believe you said.

 

[savedandhappy1]

1) You said that God cannot be in the presence of sin

As in in heaven, but you knew that but go ahead and plain dumb.

1]2) You said you agree with the Church doctrine that God gives homosexuals up to their lusts (that also means that they are no longer saved, which is what this crap BS doctrine DOES teach).

No, I said I agree/believe the scriptures. You are the one who said I was lying and it was doctrine.

There are just letters but they are still cussing, but cussing is a Christian think to do, so rock on.

1]What part did I get wrong, please inform, and I will make a revision in what I believe you said.

What did you get wrong? The part where I would let you play me, and me pretend forever that I didn't notice.

As I have already said more than once today. I am moving on to other threads and sections.



​

 

[davedjy]

No, I said I agree/believe the scriptures. You are the one who said I was lying and it was doctrine.

If you didn't have the KJV or NIV to translate out (in a biased fashion), as well as the doctrine you have believed, I do really wonder what you would think of us gays.

I don't see you as a homophobe, but it does sadden me really deeply to think my sister will see me as living in sin when I find a loving partner.

 

[CCWoody]

Let me take a moment to remind everyone that this is a sensitive topic that tends to inflame feelings. Please don't let this degenerate into a flame war.

 

[savedandhappy1]

If you didn't have the KJV or NIV to translate out (in a biased fashion), as well as the doctrine you have believed, I do really wonder what you would think of us gays.

I don't see you as a homophobe, but it does sadden me really deeply to think my sister will see me as living in sin when I find a loving partner.

Gees you missed:
1. The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English Bible. (KJV, NIV, Greek Interlinear)
2. The Devotional Bible by Max Lucado, it's NCV.
3. The Naves Study Bible
4. Matthew Henry Commentary to go along with the Classical Commentaries which has around 8-10 different peoples understandings.
5. There is the BibleGateway.com with it's 20 different translations.
6. The Wycliffe Bible Commentary.

Then there is the computer, boy have I looked at way to many websites.

Guess what I still go with the scriptures, and not the doctrine, and I still believe that the Bible says clearly that homosexuality is a sin.

​

 

[Der Alte]

From the religious tolerance website.

The list of activities that will eliminate any possibility of salvation has been expressed by various English translations as:

American Standard Version: unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with men, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or extortioners.

Amplified Bible: unrighteous and wrongdoers; impure and immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuality, cheats (swindlers and thieves), greedy graspers, drunkards, revilers and slanderers, extortioners and robbers

The Answer: people who do wrong; sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, male prostitutes, men who have sexual relations with other men, steal, greedy, get drunk, lie about others, rob

The Authentic New Testament: evil-doers; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, userers, drunkards, foul-mouthed, extortioners

Christian Standard Bible: sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers

The Jerusalem Bible: people who do wrong; people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers

King James: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners

Living Bible: going to outside judges, immoral, idol worshipers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers

The Living New Testament: those doing such things, live immoral lives, idol worshipers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, slandermongers, robbers

Modern Language: unrighteous; profligates. idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, avaricious, drunkards, slanderers, robbers

James Moffatt: wicked; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, lustful, drunken, abusive, robbers

New American: unjust; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, boy prostitutes, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers

New American Standard: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or swindlers.

New Century Version: people who do wrong, sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, men who have sexual relations with other men, steal, selfish, get drunk, lie about others, cheat

New International: wicked; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexual offenders, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers

New Living Translation: those who do wrong; those who indulge in sexual sin, idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, abusers, swindlers

New Revised Standard Version: wrongdoers; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, greedy drunkards, revilers, robbers

New Testament and Psalms: (3) wrongdoers; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers

New World: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, men kept for unnatural purposes, men who lie with men, thieves, greedy persons, drunkards, revilers or extortioners.

The Promise: evil people; immoral, worships idols, unfaithful in marriage, pervert or behaves like a homosexual...thief, greedy person, drunkards, anyone who curses and cheats others.

Revised English Bible: wrongdoers; fornicator, idolater, adulterer, sexual pervert, thief, extortioner, drunkard, slanderer, swindler.

Revised Standard: unrighteous; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers

Rheims New Testament: unjust; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, liers with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, railers, extortioners

The New Testament: lechers, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, pederasts, thieves, covetous, drunken, abusive, rapacious (Translated by Richmond Lattimore)

Today's English Version: wicked, immoral, worship idols, adulterers, homosexual perverts, steal, greedy, drunkards. slanders, thieves

The United Gospels New Testament: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners
​

 

[davedjy]

From the religious tolerance website.

The list of activities that will eliminate any possibility of salvation has been expressed by various English translations as:

American Standard Version: unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with men, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or extortioners.

Amplified Bible: unrighteous and wrongdoers; impure and immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuality, cheats (swindlers and thieves), greedy graspers, drunkards, revilers and slanderers, extortioners and robbers

The Answer: people who do wrong; sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, male prostitutes, men who have sexual relations with other men, steal, greedy, get drunk, lie about others, rob

The Authentic New Testament: evil-doers; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, userers, drunkards, foul-mouthed, extortioners

Christian Standard Bible: sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers

The Jerusalem Bible: people who do wrong; people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers

King James: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners

Living Bible: going to outside judges, immoral, idol worshipers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers

The Living New Testament: those doing such things, live immoral lives, idol worshipers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, slandermongers, robbers

Modern Language: unrighteous; profligates. idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, avaricious, drunkards, slanderers, robbers

James Moffatt: wicked; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, lustful, drunken, abusive, robbers

New American: unjust; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, boy prostitutes, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers

New American Standard: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or swindlers.

New Century Version: people who do wrong, sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, men who have sexual relations with other men, steal, selfish, get drunk, lie about others, cheat

New International: wicked; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexual offenders, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers

New Living Translation: those who do wrong; those who indulge in sexual sin, idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, abusers, swindlers

New Revised Standard Version: wrongdoers; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, greedy drunkards, revilers, robbers

New Testament and Psalms: (3) wrongdoers; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers

New World: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, men kept for unnatural purposes, men who lie with men, thieves, greedy persons, drunkards, revilers or extortioners.

The Promise: evil people; immoral, worships idols, unfaithful in marriage, pervert or behaves like a homosexual...thief, greedy person, drunkards, anyone who curses and cheats others.

Revised English Bible: wrongdoers; fornicator, idolater, adulterer, sexual pervert, thief, extortioner, drunkard, slanderer, swindler.

Revised Standard: unrighteous; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers

Rheims New Testament: unjust; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, liers with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, railers, extortioners

The New Testament: lechers, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, pederasts, thieves, covetous, drunken, abusive, rapacious (Translated by Richmond Lattimore)

Today's English Version: wicked, immoral, worship idols, adulterers, homosexual perverts, steal, greedy, drunkards. slanders, thieves

The United Gospels New Testament: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners
​

There AREN'T specific sins that take you to hell, Der Alter, you don't know the Bible too well, do you?

Are you saying there are certain groups of people that go to hell, while other sinnners go to heaven? LOL!!!!!

READ CAREFULLY


9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[davedjy]

Then there is the computer, boy have I looked at way to many websites.

As have I, and none of those websites that are coming from your side even hold any water. AGAIN, they say Romans 1 means that those who have homosexual lusts are no longer Christians any longer...God gave them up, and you still talk about a "thorn in the side", which isn't even what the Bible says. You contradict and cherry pick the Scriptures and doctrine that don't even support your OWN beliefs and you tell me you have clear knowledge on this?

I don't see how... plus you believe this is something that God heals when those things mentioned were a scam, yet you still think that they are correct.

 

[savedandhappy1]

As have I, and none of those websites that are coming from your side even hold any water. AGAIN, they say Romans 1 means that those who have homosexual lusts are no longer Christians any longer...God gave them up, and you still talk about a "thorn in the side", which isn't even what the Bible says. You contradict and cherry pick the Scriptures and doctrine that don't even support your OWN beliefs and you tell me you have clear knowledge on this?

Well since I believe OSAS, and I haven't posted anything that says someone loses their salvation, You seem to be confused.

What Bible Translation (Version) is Best?



Originally, the Bible was written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Since most of us aren't familiar with those languages, copyists and translators have spend many thousands of hours putting the Bible into the everyday language of modern people. A few of the most popular English translations available today are:



The New International Version (NIV)

This was translated by a team of scholars from a wide variety of denominational backgrounds. Most AbsoluteTruth.Net articles use this translation.



The New Living Translation (NLT)

This is a very recent translation of the Bible, intent on using very simple language so that people of all ages could understand the meaning. If you've never read the Bible before, this is a good version to begin with.



The New American Standard Bible (NASB)

This translation is a little bit more exact (in terms of its equivalence to the Hebrew and Greek texts) but it is also a little bit more difficult to understand. It is great for those who already have an understanding of the Bible.



The King James Version (KJV)*

The first edition of this translation was put out in 1611, and is still popular today, even though its language is very old. This is the Bible with the "thee's and thou's" that many people have heard. This is a great translation of God's Word, but it is also the most difficult for today's readers to understand. An update of the King James Version was made recently, and it is called the "New King James Bible." (Note, it is called "King James" because that was the name of the English king who asked for a new version of the Bible in the early 1600's.)



There are other versions available, but these four are very trustworthy, and are recommended by AbsoluteTruth.Net. It is difficult to say which is "best." Really, the best translation is the one that most clearly communicates God's message to you. If you grew up in church, you might be able to understand the KJV or NASB better than those with no previous experience in Christianity. For beginners, we definitely recommend either the NLT or the NIV.


http://www.absolutetruth.net/bible/page18.html

I contradict scriptures, please tell me how?

Let's see "cherry picking", oh come on. Let's see we have to hear about shellfish, mixed fabrics, etc., so I guess "red herrings" are better than your so called "cherry picking". I haven't "cherry picked" anything. I have posted scriptures and commentaries from bible scholars.

Don't support my beliefs, again please explain this one too?

I don't see how... plus you believe this is something that God heals when those things mentioned were a scam, yet you still think that they are correct.

Let's see you all do back flips when someone is found to be homosexual, and you can't wait to say how it proves that you are born that way, because he says he has had those feelings since he was 5 yr. old. Then this person says they are cured, and everyone yells liar. He lied before he is lying again, because you can't be cured.

Then we have a man claim God healed him from HIV/AIDS, and SSA. He tells how he had those feelings since he was 10 yrs. old. We hear he is a liar because who ever heard of a 10 yr. old having sexual feelings.

So let's recap. First we have see, see, see, we told you we are born this way, only then to hear liar, liar, liar you can't be cured you are a liar.

Next we have liar, liar, liar 10 yr. olds don't have sexual feelings. I'm I the only one who knows that 5 yr.olds are younger than 10 yr. olds?

Yet you still think that you are correct.
​

 

[davedjy]

Let's see you all do back flips when someone is found to be homosexual, and you can't wait to say how it proves that you are born that way, because he says he has had those feelings since he was 5 yr. old. Then this person says they are cured, and everyone yells liar. He lied before he is lying again, because you can't be cured.

Then we have a man claim God healed him from HIV/AIDS, and SSA. He tells how he had those feelings since he was 10 yrs. old. We hear he is a liar because who ever heard of a 10 yr. old having sexual feelings.

*shrugs*

would this be Ted Haggard? you know? the one who was just involved in a big huge, fat scam involving sex w/another man and cheated on his wife? the one who "claimed" he was healed from SSA?

Just because you get "healed" from something, doesn't mean the 99% others that don't get healed are living in sin if they act upon their sexual orientation. would you like me to tell you that every time you have sexual relations w/your husband you are living in sin? how would that make you feel?

 

[davedjy]

They are all translated off of the KJV, so why does it matter?

The best answer for 1 Cor 6:9 is that it is talking about the feminine boys who have sexual relations (male prostitutes) and the aggressor.

 

[savedandhappy1]

*shrugs*

would this be Ted Haggard? you know? the one who was just involved in a big huge, fat scam involving sex w/another man and cheated on his wife? the one who "claimed" he was healed from SSA?​

Just because you get "healed" from something, doesn't mean the 99% others that don't get healed are living in sin if they act upon their sexual orientation. would you like me to tell you that every time you have sexual relations w/your husband you are living in sin? how would that make you feel?​

If it is, so what?​

He like everyone of us can have our sins forgiven, just by confessing and repenting. There is no sin to big,(but blaspheming the Holy Spirit) that the blood of Jesus won't/can't cover.​

So it is only sexual sins that are a problem for people? No one elses sins have made them feel like it is not fair to have to stop or that it is to hard to stop?​

Is that because they are the sins that affect the inside, as the scriptures say?​

If there was as many scriptures about it as there are for Homosexuality, I would say you are right!​

Then I would fall on my knees and ask the Lord to forgive me and help me.

P.S. Let me add, that no where in the above post did I say it would be easy.
​

 

[savedandhappy1]

They are all translated off of the KJV, so why does it matter?

The best answer for 1 Cor 6:9 is that it is talking about the feminine boys who have sexual relations (male prostitutes) and the aggressor.

Originally, the Bible was written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Since most of us aren't familiar with those languages, copyists and translators have spend many thousands of hours putting the Bible into the everyday language of modern people. A few of the most popular English translations available today are:

http://www.absolutetruth.net/bible/page18.html
​

 

[Gusoceros]

Originally, the Bible was written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Since most of us aren't familiar with those languages, copyists and translators have spend many thousands of hours putting the Bible into the everyday language of modern people. A few of the most popular English translations available today are:

http://www.absolutetruth.net/bible/page18.html
​

Absolute Truth is a great site!! Nice job S&H

G

 

[davedjy]

​

If it is, so what?​

He like everyone of us can have our sins forgiven, just by confessing and repenting. There is no sin to big,(but blaspheming the Holy Spirit) that the blood of Jesus won't/can't cover.​

So it is only sexual sins that are a problem for people? No one elses sins have made them feel like it is not fair to have to stop or that it is to hard to stop?​

Is that because they are the sins that affect the inside, as the scriptures say?​

If there was as many scriptures about it as there are for Homosexuality, I would say you are right!​

Then I would fall on my knees and ask the Lord to forgive me and help me.

P.S. Let me add, that no where in the above post did I say it would be easy.
​

You don't have anything to repent of, you believe you are speaking the truth, Kathy, which is why I said, I don't see you as a "homophobe" or anything like that.

I would be deeply offended if God would convict me of this, because there isn't any way to change it, and I do believe that we were just made this way...we are a very small minority. Should anyone who doesn't feel called to celibacy have to live that type of depressing life? It is PROVEN FACT, that homosexuals who get into committed relationships, are happy and live fulfilling lives! My current Pastor seems so at peace and fulfilled in his life w/his partner.

Scripture does not have an answer for everything, and marriage back in the Bible was more about inheritance than love, anyways...explain that one away (unequally yoked, too). One could tell you "pornography is OK, it's not mentioned in the Bible", we must just go to the Holy Spirit, ask for wisdom and obey our conscience, that was given to us by God.

 

[Myriah]

1 Corinthians 6:9-109 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

A couple of things I'd like to address about this passage.

1) How did murderers get off the hook? Why doesn't it mention murderers in this verse?

2) The above is included in a chapter called "Lawsuits Among Believers"... could it be that these were the things that the people in Corinth at that time were having lawsuits against each other?

IOW, the above were against the civil law in Corinth, and still are against the civil law today in many countries, but not all countries as child male prostitution in 3rd World countries still exists, as does heterosexual child and female prostitution.

But -- Could this be a possibility regarding "lawsuits"? Because Paul is saying he is ashamed of their lawsuits against each other in 1 Cor 6... and then goes on to say "Do not be deceived: ....

Though I still don't see how murderers escaped being mentioned in that passage?

Could someone explain that to me logically?

 

[Gwenyfur]

You WILL adhere to the rules you agreed to when you joined CF!!
That means:

NO Flaming!!!

NO harrassing!!!

Post with courtesy and respect toward your fellow member.

Play nice !!