Sodomites!!!!

[BigChrisfilm]

You don't know your Bible well, do you?

Read Genesis 19 and Judges 19

I must have missed the part in Genesis where the angels actually got raped. Could you please post the exact verse for me?

 

[BigChrisfilm]

Babble Boy has confused me again! ROFLMAO!

Nice, good old fashion cursing will get it down.

 

[intricatic]

Babble Boy has confused me again! ROFLMAO!

Okay. Do you think Jude was talking only about Sodom and Gammorah? If so, you're mistaken. Sodom and Gammorah were an example in Jude to point to the lusting and the fornication that was happening with a certain apostatic group within the Church body. It was not talking about angels. At all. It used angels as an example because they took the form of men.

 

[davedjy]

I must have missed the part in Genesis where the angels actually got raped. Could you please post the exact verse for me?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2019;&version=31;

 

[davedjy]

Okay. Do you think Jude was talking only about Sodom and Gammorah? If so, you're mistaken. Sodom and Gammorah were an example in Jude to point to the lusting and the fornication that was happening with a certain apostatic group within the Church body. It was not talking about angels. At all. It used angels as an example because they took the form of men.

It's a direct parable Genesis --> Jude 1 (it says "like Sodom and Gomorrah")

 

[BigChrisfilm]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis%2019;&version=31;

That is the whole chapter. I wanted an exact verse where they get raped. I would love to know this, because I always wondered if Angels had butts. How exactly did they get rapped? Did they get butt rapped? What do they need those butts for anyway? This discussion has gone to new levels now, lol.

 

[intricatic]

It's a direct parable Genesis --> Jude 1 (it says "like Sodom and Gomorrah")

Who were the apostates in the Church body lusting after? Not Michael. It's really not hard to read this chapter and get a clear image of what it's talking about.

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
(Jude 7)

This is not talking about the Apostate group directly, it's using it as a metaphor to encourage the Church to rebuke the apostates. The Apostates were not lusting after Michael.


16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
(Jude 1)

 

[davedjy]

Who were the apostates in the Church body that Jude was referring to lusting after? Not Michael - that was a different matter.


This is not talking about the Apostate group directly, it's using it as a metaphor to encourage the Church to rebuke the apostates. The Apostates were not lusting after Michael.

Read Genesis 19, but it is definitely a direct comparison of the two

 

[davedjy]

That is the whole chapter. I wanted an exact verse where they get raped. I would love to know this, because I always wondered if Angels had butts. How exactly did they get rapped? Did they get butt rapped? What do they need those butts for anyway? This discussion has gone to new levels now, lol.

LOL!!!! they were in human form, you didn't get that?

 

[BigChrisfilm]

Where those Angels men, or women? How do you go about having sex with an angel against it's will? I mean, have you ever tried to wrestle an angel down. Why did God let them have sex with the angels? Wasn't God also with the angels before this? I mean, do you not see how silly this is?

 

[BigChrisfilm]

I am still looking for the exact verse where the Angels were butt raped.

 

[intricatic]

Read Genesis 19, but it is definitely a direct comparison of the two

Hi

Read Jude. It is not a direct comparison. Unless you have some idea of who these apostates were lusting after, when Jude specifically refers to past occurrences on both accounts (lusting after strange flesh, and the mention of Michael), you have no point in arguing this. It was talking about "ungodly lust" in general. In fact, there's some scholarly opinion that this passage is referring to the Nicolaitane apostates, although that's mostly speculative based on what was known about this group.

 

[BigChrisfilm]

I guess the verse where the Angels are butt raped doesn't really exist. I didn't think it did. Isn't it a same that so much time was given to such a thing. Not to mention that it will probably continue until we have all lost our minds, lol.

 

[davedjy]

I guess the verse where the Angels are butt raped doesn't really exist. I didn't think it did. Isn't it a same that so much time was given to such a thing. Not to mention that it will probably continue until we have all lost our minds, lol.

The angelic hosts were raped, do a Google search, and you will find it is true. is your Google broken?

 

[intricatic]

The angelic hosts were raped, do a Google search, and you will find it is true. is your Google broken?

Okay, let me start again.

In the book of Jude, the main point that Jude had in writing this letter was that there was an apostate group infiltrating the Church, in reflection of 2 Peter 2;

12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
(2 Peter 2)

The structure and points which are raised in both of these chapters are very similar, and it's often pointed out that the two are closely related in meaning.

When Jude mentions Sodom and Gomorrah, what point do you think he's trying to make about this situation unfolding in the Church? That the apostates are lusting after and fornicating with angels? Where's the evidence of this in the text?

 

[davedjy]

Okay, let me start again.

In the book of Jude, the main point that Jude had in writing this letter was that there was an apostate group infiltrating the Church, in reflection of 2 Peter 2;

The structure and points which are raised in both of these chapters are very similar, and it's often pointed out that the two are closely related in meaning.

When Jude mentions Sodom and Gomorrah, what point do you think he's trying to make about this situation unfolding in the Church? That the apostates are lusting after and fornicating with angels? Where's the evidence of this in the text?

Where is that a parable of Peter? I don't see that at all, it's a parable of Sodom and Gomorrah and the angelic visitors from that. My only point is the "strange flesh" is from angels, not from actual humans.

 

[intricatic]

Where is that a parable of Peter? I don't see that at all, it's a parable of Sodom and Gomorrah and the angelic visitors from that. My only point is the "strange flesh" is from angels, not from actual humans.

How. Does. That. Apply. To. The. Context. Of. Jude?

It has absolutely nothing to do with the context of Jude. Jude was talking about apostates who were lusting after one another and spreading false doctrines from within the Church. Any other interpretation makes absolutely no sense with the context. That book is not just 1 verse, afterall.

 

[davedjy]

How. Does. That. Apply. To. The. Context. Of. Jude?

It has absolutely nothing to do with the context of Jude. Jude was talking about apostates who were lusting after one another and spreading false doctrines from within the Church.

read Jude 1. it. says.like.sodom.and.gomorrah.going.after.strange.flesh.

 

[intricatic]

This is a horrible eisogesis that doesn't even take into consideration the context. I refuse to even humor it as sensible until someone has clarified the implication on the overall chapter, which no source online I've been able to find has done yet. All credible scholars I've read have not made such a bizarre association as to point out that the people in Sodom and Gomorrah were lusting after angels, hence why it was mentioned. That's completely absurd with the context of the chapter.

 

[intricatic]

read Jude 1. it. says.like.sodom.and.gomorrah.going.after.strange.flesh.

No, you read it. I already did. How does that apply to the apostates being discussed in the overall context? That they were lusting after angels? No.... that they were lusting after one another like beasts who are driven by instinct.

12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
(2 Peter 2)

10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
(Jude 1)

16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
(Jude 1)

The use of sexual language referring to Sodom and Gomorrah indicates that this is a sexual kind of corruption. What, or who, were they defiling themselves with?