Socialist Ideas

Gamezilla

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Typical anti-Socialist. Completely ignore any ideas presented and focus solely on the title.


He's just some "typical anti-socialist" just because he doesn't agree with your socialistic views? Hate to tell you, but most Capitalists don't agree with Socialism, buddy. It IS slavery. You are a pawn of the government and nothing more. Your money is taken with your approval or not (like someone said above) to pay for government funded programs that are not well done. Win some, lose some? No! In this case I guess you "lose some, lose some". In fact, everyone loses, not just you. You are restricted to making it anymore than anyone else, which is why Socialism fails. Equal misery, bud. Yep, that's good ol' Socialism for ya!
 
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Allegory

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He's just some "typical anti-socialist" just because he doesn't agree with your socialistic views? Hate to tell you, but most Capitalists don't agree with Socialism, buddy. It IS slavery. You are a pawn of the government and nothing more. Your money is taken with your approval or not (like someone said above) to pay for government funded programs that are not well done. Win some, lose some? No! In this case I guess you "lose some, lose some". In fact, everyone loses, not just you. You are restricted to making it anymore than anyone else, which is why Socialism fails. Equal misery, bud. Yep, that's good ol' Socialism for ya!

Hi, I'm from a country who has many social programs, including a very costly social healthcare plan. My taxes are lower than yours and I don't have to pay for health insurance. For evidence, please see the universal healthcare thread in the "American Politics" section where I contrast Canadian income tax rates against American income tax rates. I genuinely expected American rates to be lower, but it's not the case.

Universal healthcare might be able to help you with your "head-in-[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]" condition.
 
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Steezie

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He's just some "typical anti-socialist" just because he doesn't agree with your socialistic views? Hate to tell you, but most Capitalists don't agree with Socialism, buddy. It IS slavery. You are a pawn of the government and nothing more. Your money is taken with your approval or not (like someone said above) to pay for government funded programs that are not well done. Win some, lose some? No! In this case I guess you "lose some, lose some". In fact, everyone loses, not just you. You are restricted to making it anymore than anyone else, which is why Socialism fails. Equal misery, bud. Yep, that's good ol' Socialism for ya!
He's a typical anti-socialist because I provide a list of even halfway decent ideas and the best he can do is sit back, suck his thumb, and say "THEY SUCK!" No reasons except for some half-hearted appeal to liberty or freedom and snide comments
 
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TheReasoner

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He's just some "typical anti-socialist" just because he doesn't agree with your socialistic views? Hate to tell you, but most Capitalists don't agree with Socialism, buddy.

No, they don't. But here in Scandinavia where socialism has not only succeeded but made Scandinavia as rich and competitive as it is even Capitalists support key socialistic aspects of society.

It IS slavery.

No, it really isn't. If so you can argue that any and all taxation is 'slavery'. Which means we're all slaves.

You are a pawn of the government and nothing more.

'Under capitalism you're a pawn of the corporations and nothing more'. Doesn't make much sense in either case. The argument is horribly flawed. Under totalitarian regimes you are a pawn. In democracies you're not. Ideally not anyway. Corporations will try to gain control over society to make you one. If they can control the population they can maximize their profit. And that's why they exist after all.

Your money is taken with your approval or not (like someone said above) to pay for government funded programs that are not well done. Win some, lose some? No! In this case I guess you "lose some, lose some".

That are not well done? Speak for yourself! When we privatized the power company prices of electricity soared! Today we have many electrical companies, not just a government monopoly one. And the result has been skyrocketing prices and plummeting quality. Same thing for public services in many of our cities. In Oslo the city practically stops with the first snow every year. This only became a problem once street cleaning became privatized. What's more, the city pays more for the service and gets less. Not only are the streets closed by snow fairly easily now. But the trash is incredibly poorly handled. In most or all other cities they sort the trash and recycle a lot. Here in Oslo they don't. And the people who work with renovation only empty garbage bins. If one has spilled over they won't touch it. The residents have to do that.

Privatization is not always the best solution. Sure, some people will tell you that it is, but it's only their opinion. And while there are examples of private being better than public this is NOT universal. Take the place my father is working. It's a public school for the mentally handicapped. It's known for it's exceptional competence and skill. They're efficient, and have turned the school into a money machine by combining education, rehabilitation and more with public services. The users there will make firewood. And do odd jobs. The result is that the school has a surplus of money.
Another school like it only a couple of hours away is a dump. They don't manage to keep the buildings in shape. They don't manage to deliver half the quality of service my father's school does. Both are public, one is exceptionally successful, the other struggles due to poor management.
There are examples of privatized homes for senior citizens who break laws and have very dangerous practices just to cut corners and make a profit. Private is not always the solution.

In fact, everyone loses, not just you. You are restricted to making it anymore than anyone else, which is why Socialism fails. Equal misery, bud. Yep, that's good ol' Socialism for ya!

Really?
You know what happens here? We all get an education for free. And we don't have to pay for health insurance. We get free healthcare in all of Europe through the public insurance. The Scandinavian nations are as competitive and well developed as we are. We're also exceptionally free. But even when freedom isn't as present as here socialism can give great benefits. Cuban educational system went from the worst to the best in all of Latin America after the revolution. Scandinavia has the highest average level of education in the world. Wouldn't you think that if Socialism was as bad as you claim a highly educated population would shun it and turn to better alternatives?
Why hasn't that happened then?

He's a typical anti-socialist because I provide a list of even halfway decent ideas and the best he can do is sit back, suck his thumb, and say "THEY SUCK!" No reasons except for some half-hearted appeal to liberty or freedom and snide comments

Are you surprised? Many Americans are still living in the McArty era paranoia. Socialism turns into something evil solely by the power of propaganda and association. They're misinformed. But don't like to get to hear it when that is pointed out. Socialism is not an evil which must be combated. It can, I am sure, be harmful under the wrong leaders. But any system is and can be that.
 
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Corey

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I love has these big statists like to force me into paying for someone else's well being for the "common good". I guess some people are just more equal than others. Orwellian isn't it? Economic fascism is the proper term.

Do you realize that corporations pay only 7% of the income taxes? That means your beloved Republicans have foisted paying for corporate use of the commons onto you.

How does that make you feel?
 
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jamesrwright3

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Do you realize that corporations pay only 7% of the income taxes? That means your beloved Republicans have foisted paying for corporate use of the commons onto you.

How does that make you feel?

Actually its closer to 10% and it has been going down since the mid sixties...and Democrats were in power for much of that time. It has nothing to do with democrat or republican. It has everything to do with our complicated tax structure and an underfunded IRS. IRS does not have the manpower to scrutinize the tax returns of large companies which can be tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of pages. Companies find loopholes in the tax code such as complex lease agreements with other countries (some people have leased the sewage system and the trolley systems of some small german towns) in a complex tax scheme. As soon as one loophole is closed, another one is found..something sllightly different enough to make it not illegal. It has nothing to do with democrat/republican. It has everything to do with a broken tax system and greed..
 
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chaz345

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Can you provide numbers to back that up?

How about the fact that hospitals in border areas have been forced to close down or close their emergency rooms because of the costs associated with serving illegals?
 
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Wyzaard

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I love has these big statists like to force me into paying for someone else's well being for the "common good".

As opposed to being forced in a highly-consolidated capitalist system into paying for the well-being of a tiny wealthy minority?
 
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jgarden

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Because socialism is slavery.
We are enslaves by whatever is socialized by not having a choice to choose for ourselves in favor of being forced to use what ever is monopolized.

We loose our right to do with as we choose with our own labor because when something is socialized they take your money to fund it with or without your consent.

And under a socialized system everything tends to cost much much more because there is no competition. And there is no incentive to lower costs because they don't need to ask you to pay for it, they just take it from you.
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The Believers Share Their Possessions (ACTS 4)

31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.

33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.

34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
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- all filled with the Holy Spirit

- No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own,

- they shared everything they had

- no needy persons among them

- distributed to anyone as he had need.
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Strange that the more prosperous Christians become, the more preoccupied they become with protecting their own self interests.

Some outsiders might expect American Christians to support a society that reflects the generosity of the early Believers while under the Holy Spirit, not the crass materialism of their pagan Roman oppressors.
:bow:
 
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KarateCowboy

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The Believers Share Their Possessions (ACTS 4)

31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.

33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.

34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
**********************************************************
- all filled with the Holy Spirit

- No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own,

- they shared everything they had

- no needy persons among them

- distributed to anyone as he had need.
**********************************************************
Strange that the more prosperous Christians become, the more preoccupied they become with protecting their own self interests.

Some outsiders might expect American Christians to support a society that reflects the generosity of the early Believers while under the Holy Spirit, not the crass materialism of their pagan Roman oppressors.
:bow:
Actually, research has found that the upper class in America is more generous with their wealth than the Middle Class.

You're not seeing the forest here, JGarden. Each believer brought his own possessions. It is not Caesar took their possessions and gave to each according to his need but rather individuals of their own will. There was no government involved! Sounds rather like modern Conservatives. Did you know that in America, people who most favor government distribution of wealth are among the least charitable?; That conservatives give on average 30% more to charity than liberals, despite earning on average 6% less? Did you know the number one determinant in predicting charitable is weekly religious attendance? Jgarden, the fact there is socialized this and that in certain countries shows that people care about others, and are going to help eachother out anyway. Why do we need to give more power to the government when doing that? And if no one did care and we had everyone starving in the streets, do you think the government, made of those uncaring people, would care? There is no need to give the government the power over our wages and make us all slaves of the state. Even our Lord does not act as you would have the government doing. God wants us to give willingly. Not have it taken whether we want it or not.
 
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jgarden

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Actually, research has found that the upper class in America is more generous with their wealth than the Middle Class.

You're not seeing the forest here, JGarden. Each believer brought his own possessions. It is not Caesar took their possessions and gave to each according to his need but rather individuals of their own will. There was no government involved! Sounds rather like modern Conservatives. Did you know that in America, people who most favor government distribution of wealth are among the least charitable?; That conservatives give on average 30% more to charity than liberals, despite earning on average 6% less? Did you know the number one determinant in predicting charitable is weekly religious attendance? Jgarden, the fact there is socialized this and that in certain countries shows that people care about others, and are going to help eachother out anyway. Why do we need to give more power to the government when doing that? And if no one did care and we had everyone starving in the streets, do you think the government, made of those uncaring people, would care? There is no need to give the government the power over our wages and make us all slaves of the state. Even our Lord does not act as you would have the government doing. God wants us to give willingly. Not have it taken whether we want it or not.
Unlike the early Believers, many Christians have organized themselves and make no apologies about exerting a major influence in US politics and use government's power to mould American society.

Supposedly many Christians have no problem empowering a secular government to determine whether or not a pregnant woman should have a full term pregnancy, but any attempts by the same government to address other moral issues would suddenly make its citizens "slaves of the state."

At present, the Religious Right appears to be merely "cherry picking" a select group of moral issues that fit into its conservative political agenda:bow:
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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At present, the Religious Right appears to be merely "cherry picking" a select group of moral issues that fit into its conservative political agenda:bow:

As opposed to say, posting a few verses from acts to support a political agenda...

:thumbsup:
 
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jgarden

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As opposed to say, posting a few verses from acts to support a political agenda...

:thumbsup:
Perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten us, from your non political agenda, on the significance, of those "few verses from Acts" for Christians living in America in 2008 - where the top 10% of the population controls 71% of the nation's wealth and the bottom 40% owns less than 1%?

http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/fac...ome&wealth.htm
:thumbsup:
 
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Steezie

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Actually, research has found that the upper class in America is more generous with their wealth than the Middle Class.
That would stand to reason as the upper classes have more money to be generous with and the middle classes do not have such financial freedom.

If you have more money to give, you're probably going to give more money than someone who has less financial flexibility than you.
 
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NotreDame

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As opposed to being forced in a highly-consolidated capitalist system into paying for the well-being of a tiny wealthy minority?

A tiny wealthy minority have their well-being paid for by the rest of us? Really? What makes you think so?
 
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