sobering to realize

[vibrant]

isn't it sobering to realize that Jesus was known as a friend of sinners, yet for people who are going through stuff which isn't exactly considered pure, Church and Christians are often the last place/people they'd want to turn to?

 

[Raanan]

Give it up for condescension and condemnation! Wooo!!

Sarcasm aside, yes. It saddens and angers me. It saddens and angers me even more because churches/christians (in general mind you. I know there are exceptions and I look forward to the day when I have the opportunity to find an exceptional church) do it to their fellow members.

I suppose it may be people trying to validate their existence through their "good" works instead of letting Jesus validate their existence but I don't really know. I just know it sucks and isn't what Jesus would have any of us do.

Hell, I'm guilty of doing it to Amedeus though that wasn't out of any need to validate my existence but a prideful act on my part. Icky pride.

 

[vibrant]

i've several takes on it, but besides the pharisee effect (lack of humility), i think we're having problems distinguishing between sin and sinner. once it was somewhat easy, but nowadays, the sinner is associated with the sin so you "can't" pick and choose -- you either love the sinner AND the sin, or you love nothing. current thought controls and manipulates the argument framework so we're put in between this rock and hard place. consequently, we feel are like we aren't Christians either way (as though Christianity is about attaining human perfection). AND SO, we hestitate to love at all, hesitate to even bring our faith in it (so we might be loving, but they don't see us in the role of Christians.)

in general, i think our heart's in the right place, but we're having problems balancing apparently irreconcilable opposites -- law and love, humility and convinction. also, should the standards we hold for ourselves be applied to everyone else?

i notice that Jesus had to balance a lot, but He succeeds and does so masterfully. we end up questioning and re-evaluating ourselves, not Him. hm. hope right there.

 

[SFBay]

isn't it sobering to realize that Jesus was known as a friend of sinners, yet for people who are going through stuff which isn't exactly considered pure, Church and Christians are often the last place/people they'd want to turn to?

This is exactly why I don't care much for organized religion.

I was going through some real rough times a few years back (still am, to an extent), because of mistakes I had made. Several church-going Christians looked down at me because of this. I only recently became a Christian this past October, but had it not been for those holier-than-thou Christians who judged me, I'm sure I would have been one much sooner. And I hate to say it, but even though I've accepted Christ those people still look down on me.

It's great to know Jesus isn't that way. I know he ate with sinners, conversed with them, etc. I've made many mistakes in the past and it's nice to know I am forgiven.

 

[vibrant]

the biggest problem i can forsee with this thread is us becoming what we're arguing/complaining against. instead of viewing this as an us vs. them issue, where "others" are the ones at fault (and we're the ones who are getting it right), and instead of dismissing such actions outright... let's just realize that we're all in this boat--perpetrators and victims

 

[jenptcfan]

This is exactly why I don't care much for organized religion.

I was going through some real rough times a few years back (still am, to an extent), because of mistakes I had made. Several church-going Christians looked down at me because of this. I only recently became a Christian this past October, but had it not been for those holier-than-thou Christians who judged me, I'm sure I would have been one much sooner. And I hate to say it, but even though I've accepted Christ those people still look down on me.

It's great to know Jesus isn't that way. I know he ate with sinners, conversed with them, etc. I've made many mistakes in the past and it's nice to know I am forgiven.

Hi SFBay! Your story is so unfortunate. I'm sorry you were treated that way by those Christians who looked down on you.

Please don't give up on organized religion though. There are problems within any group of human beings (because even the churched ones are sinners). I do think that the church is meant to be a family who supports one another and lifts eachother up though. Don't give up until you find that--even if you have to make a stand for it in a place where it's not happening.

Sometimes God can take our past hurts and turn them into passions...meaning you (or me, or anyone) could be the one God uses to change that hurtful attitude within a given church.

 

[jenptcfan]

I think sometimes I might be viewed as standoffish because I'm not a naturally outgoing person. It's not that I don't reach out to people because I think I'm better than them, but because I get a little nervous initiating conversations with people I don't know.

I know that I have to work on this though, because no matter my intention, it could still be hurtful to another person.

There's no telling how many times there are hurting people around me (in the church and in the world), and it could be that God wants to use me in their lives, but I don't get far enough out of my shell to reach them. I think I get afraid that if I'm bold and reach out to them, they'll think I'm a freak because they don't know me well enough for me to do that? But if God has really purposed me to be sensitive to peoples' hurts and reach out with boldness, I'm sure he would give person I'm reaching out to a receptive heart.

OK, so I'm rambling. I just mean that we probably all need to do a better job of reaching out to others and accepting them as our church family. There are lots of ways I could do it, but I don't always follow through like I should, and I'm afraid that sometimes it might affect peoples' perception of me.

 

[Raanan]

the biggest problem i can forsee with this thread is us becoming what we're arguing/complaining against. instead of viewing this as an us vs. them issue, where "others" are the ones at fault (and we're the ones who are getting it right), and instead of dismissing such actions outright... let's just realize that we're all in this boat--perpetrators and victims

Totally, we are still the "church" whether we go to a church or not so it isn't a matter of thinking we aren't guility of the same (least not for me. I know I'm guilty) but a recognition of the problem we all have a tendency to have and a desire to fix it.

Oddly, while I recognized it before I went on my dts, I never experienced it. When I came back from my dts though, wow. I suddenly understood why half my friends from before had never felt comfortable at my church. Don't be exactly their view of a rightous christian and you suddenly become a mission field. How very condescending and condemning. It's for that reason, among others, I don't go to church anymore. I didn't have the strength to deal with it at the time. Maybe I'll go back and shake things up though since I've had time to recover from my dts

Anyway, that's the condensed version of my story of why it's a personal issue to me.

 

[vibrant]

Totally, we are still the "church" whether we go to a church or not so it isn't a matter of thinking we aren't guility of the same (least not for me. I know I'm guilty) but a recognition of the problem we all have a tendency to have and a desire to fix it.

Oddly, while I recognized it before I went on my dts, I never experienced it. When I came back from my dts though, wow. I suddenly understood why half my friends from before had never felt comfortable at my church. Don't be exactly their view of a rightous christian and you suddenly become a mission field. How very condescending and condemning. It's for that reason, among others, I don't go to church anymore. I didn't have the strength to deal with it at the time. Maybe I'll go back and shake things up though since I've had time to recover from my dts

Anyway, that's the condensed version of my story of why it's a personal issue to me.

sorry to hear that

(but what's dts?)

 

[Machachachi]

Discipleship Training School, its a school from YWAM or Youth With A Mission, sorry us YWAMer's really love our acronyms and tend to forget not everybody knows about us, we do have that complex sometimes....

 

[Raanan]

Lol yeah, Discipleship Training School through Youth With a Mission.

I really don't know how to describe it other then, "whoa." Best, worst, easiest, hardest, most stressfull, most relaxing, and all around unique experience.

 

[vibrant]

thanks.