so...

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I would throw in there as #5 Whether salvation can be lost or given away. Some say if you are once saved are you always saved.

Thats what i meant by 'eternal security' but yes correct

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

These are issues on which different denominations disagree nowadays, but I think they are not the biggest sources of division among Christians. I think the biggest sources of division are how Christians should understand and interpret the Bible and the specific issues of evolution, whether and how to accept gay people in the churches, and possibly abortion. I see a broad division having emerged between so-called fundamentalist Christians, or Biblical literalists, and more liberal or latitudinarian Christians who regard the scripture not as literal truth but as a guide and as subject to different interpretations.

Differences over these questions have not only separated denominations from each other; they have divided denominations internally.

Ahhhhh come on prof, i just listed the top 4 or 5 reasons why there are different denominations. That is factual. Of course there are divisions regarding interpretation and beliefs, but most of those still fall within the denomination. Things like the standing point on creation are not agreeable by all within a denomination, but that kind of disagreement doesn't necessarily force a divide within the congregation. I'm talking about the core beliefs of christians, and the nicene creed sums them up pretty well.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Speedos.. *shudder*
Swimming lesson nightmares ><

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

Telling me my beliefs are not Christian is against the rules of this subforum, as I understand those rules.

No!.Telling someone they aren&#8217;t a Christian is against the rules, however saying someone&#8217;s views aren&#8217;t Christian isn&#8217;t. I have already discussed this at length with moderators.

I have told you your views are not Christian and shown you the evidence why. Let me remind you that I have so far on this forum given you the dictionary definition and the faith statements from the major Christian churches and compared them against your statements, most notably the Bible as reliable in matters of faith and conduct and as a rule and standard of faith and Jesus Christ as Son of God.
If you are saying your beliefs are Christian, show us why, this was the question to you. My views on this issue are based on what the Bible passages I quoted say.. Address them or put forward the evidence on which your ideas are based.

Your beliefs are not the only Christian beliefs.

But they are Christian, yours aren&#8217;t.

There are many Christians who disagree with some of your beliefs, notably your beliefs about "homosexuality."

Ok so many Christians are in error, please justify their views with some evidence.

 

[Ohioprof]

I don't debate. You know how many folks in this forum have gotten upset and called me trite and not worth their time because I don't debate. Quote Scripture and repeat the same thing again and again and again.

I'm here to deliver truth so that the captives may be set free.

As has been said plenty of times, there's no need to debate TRUTH.

But God's Truth will repeatedly be given in the face of lies. And this forum has been full of them.

But no mas!

I see. You are certain you know the truth. That's a dangerous belief, my friend. It can lead to smugness, even arrogance, a refusal to listen and learn, a refusal to consider other points of view, a refusal to consider that one may, indeed, be wrong.

I believe we should always recognize that we may be wrong, and that we probably are wrong in our beliefs, at least to some extent. Because no matter how much we may convince ourselves that we know the truth, we don't. We know only our human perspective on the truth, which is always partial, always flawed, no matter what scripture we wave around, no matter how insistent we are that we speak for God.

 

[Ohioprof]

I think I will just wear my speedos while on the beach. The speedos don't take up much room in the suitcase.

This is off topic, but your reference to Speedos made me think of it. When I was in graduate school years ago, there was a very tall, thin guy with long, flowing hair who used to walk around the campus in sandals. He almost never spoke. He was reportedly a graduate student in philosophy who had been writing his dissertation for many years. The story went that he had written a brilliant dissertation and would surely have been awarded his PhD, but he was dissatisfied with it and threw it out and started over on an entirely new dissertation.

And people called him Jesus. He did look just like the painting of Jesus that used to hang on the wall in my grandmother's bedroom. People on campus would refer to Jesus, and everyone knew they meant this guy.

He looked like Jesus, or a popular image of what many people think Jesus looked like, except for the Speedo. He walked around in sandals and a tiny Speedo bathing suit.

So whenever I see someone in a Speedo, or hear someone talk of a Speedo, the image of this tall guy in a Speedo comes to mind, the guy that people called Jesus. I hear he wrote a second brilliant dissertation and then decided to leave academia entirely. I wonder what he is doing now.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

I see. You are certain you know the truth. That's a dangerous belief, my friend.

On the contrary it is the safest belief. The truth we are talking about is the one that leads to complete joy and eternal life. I suspect though as you think it is dangerous, you don&#8217;t consider it merely a choice but something undesirable not only for you to accept but for others as well.

It can lead to smugness, even arrogance, a refusal to listen and learn, a refusal to consider other points of view, a refusal to consider that one may, indeed, be wrong.

Well it could do, but not for us as the belief includes not doing that. But having not heard any other point of view except your own personal feelings and opinion as your belief we have considered at least your point of view which we can happily reject wholesale.

I believe we should always recognize that we may be wrong, and that we probably are wrong in our beliefs, at least to some extent.

Well we cant be wrong in our beliefs, that would make them not our beliefs. We can accept that what we believe in may not be truth, indeed Jesus Christ&#8217;s NT teaching says if it isn&#8217;t true its all in vain, but of course this is what faith is.

Because no matter how much we may convince ourselves that we know the truth, we don't.

On the contrary, if what we believe is truth, really is truth, then we do know the truth! The key depends on the thing we have faith in as the truth. But no matter how much you convince yourself that Jesus Christ according to His Biblical testimony isnt the truth, you still cant prove He isnt.

We know only our human perspective on the truth, which is always partial, always flawed, no matter what scripture we wave around, no matter how insistent we are that we speak for God.

We cant know God if it depends on our human perspective. We know God because God has made Himself evident to us in the flesh and told us the truth.

However I acknowlege that while we have faith that Jesus Christ is the truth according to His Biblical testimony, you cant be sure of that.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
No!.Telling someone they aren&#8217;t a Christian is against the rules, however saying someone&#8217;s views aren&#8217;t Christian isn&#8217;t. I have already discussed this at length with moderators.

I have told you your views are not Christian and shown you the evidence why. Let me remind you that I have so far on this forum given you the dictionary definition and the faith statements from the major Christian churches and compared them against your statements, most notably the Bible as reliable in matters of faith and conduct and as a rule and standard of faith and Jesus Christ as Son of God.
If you are saying your beliefs are Christian, show us why, this was the question to you. My views on this issue are based on what the Bible passages I quoted say.. Address them or put forward the evidence on which your ideas are based.

But they are Christian, yours aren&#8217;t. Ok so many Christians are in error, please justify their views with some evidence.

The subject of the forum is NOT whether my beliefs are Christian. Trying to wiggle around the rules by saying you aren't calling ME non-Christian, just my beliefs, is nothing but wiggling around the rules. If I claimed that your beliefs were non-Christian, I suspect you would be more than annoyed.

This is not the inquisition. I don't care if you believe that I am not a Christian, or that my beliefs are non-Christian, which is the same thing. Now, enough of this. Just respond to my points, not to whether you think my beliefs are Christian.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

The subject of the forum is NOT whether my beliefs are Christian.

So don&#8217;t keep telling me you are a Christian when your views aren&#8217;t. Just tell me your views and we can discuss them.

Trying to wiggle around the rules by saying you aren't calling ME non-Christian, just my beliefs, is nothing but wiggling around the rules.

Well that is a false claim, as I have clearly referred to your views as not Christian and shown you why.
Now we aren&#8217;t here just at your whim to discuss why you aren&#8217;t happy with evidence and reasoning others have put forward, kindly show me why your think your views are Christian by quoting the Biblical references which support what you are saying. If you don&#8217;t believe the Bible is reliable then according to the dictionary definition, the faith statements of the Christian churches and the Bible itself, the that&#8217;s not a recognised Christian definition.

This is not the inquisition. I don't care if you believe that I am not a Christian, or that my beliefs are non-Christian, which is the same thing. I am not going to respond to your posts any longer.

I have told you the choice is yours. If you discuss the issue and cease merely claiming you are a Christian I wont need to point out that your viewpoint doesn&#8217;t match recognised definitions of Christian.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

The subject of the forum is NOT whether my beliefs are Christian. Trying to wiggle around the rules by saying you aren't calling ME non-Christian, just my beliefs, is nothing but wiggling around the rules. If I claimed that your beliefs were non-Christian, I suspect you would be more than annoyed.

This is not the inquisition. I don't care if you believe that I am not a Christian, or that my beliefs are non-Christian, which is the same thing. Now, enough of this. Just respond to my points, not to whether you think my beliefs are Christian.

It is actually of great importance to understand where you are coming from. Phinehas uses the basic fundamentalist set of standards as his guideline, you do not. Just from that difference, any type of conversation is pointless since you are both on different starting platforms.

Christians follow the testimony of Christ within the bible, so they use the bible as their guideline. If we cannot get past that agreement then there is no point in going any farther, since both sides will be brushed off by the other as without merit.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Members and staff,

The following is being added to the site-wide rules:

* You will not promote any faith, belief, or religion other than Nicene Christianity.

The newest commandment.

 

[Phinehas2]

This is exactly the issue Jet_A_Jockey has pointed out.
If we merely refer to the evidence we use for our views that fine but Christians follow the testimony of Christ within the bible, so they use the bible as their guideline. By continually claiming you are Christian as a basis for your views immediately focuses the attention on your claim rather than the actual issue to be discussed.

 

[Melethiel]

Thread closed, as it's off topic and beginning to get a bit heated.

There are no plans to close this forum.