so...

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,

And I am saying it isnt a Christian argument, the Christian argument is that marriage is man and woman and that same-sex unions are error. The evidence is God’s creation purpose for man and woman to be in union (ie. Genesis 2, Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5 etc) and same-sex practice as error (ie. Gen 19 Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim1, Romans 1 etc)
Now if you want to try and claim same-sex union is a Christian viewpoint them you need first to show where such a concept is countenanced and then explain why the contradiction with the texts that exclude it and condemn it.
I am not interested in your understanding of what you think you are, as has been demonstrated between us your faith isn’t in the same Jesus Christ as mine according to the Biblical record so who you refer to as Christians probably don’t have Christian understandings. Your ideas of what makes a Christian or what Christians should do are mostly your ideas, non-Biblical, and not what Christians think or should do
I am interested in the evidence for what you believe, at the moment your ideas seem merely based on your disbelief.

That's just one Christian argument about marriage. Christians really are divided about this question of same-sex marriage. Other Christians do not agree with you on this question, which is why we have these passionate debates in the DOH subforum.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I do not think that differences over how we regard scripture mean that we worship a different God. We just understand God, and how to know God, differently. It's not that our Gods are different, for there is only one God. It's that we are different from each other in how we think and what we believe. But beyond our differences, we are all people and we are all beloved by God.

No, its a different God. I believe we can make gods out of anything, including ourselves and our desires. The God of the bible, the One that I follow, is loving, merciful, yet also angry and jealous. He also sent His only begotten for the sake of us all. If your God did not do that, then we do not worship the same one.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

For the most part, Christians today agree on this point. It's not a major source of division within the faith right now, though it was in early Christianity. There are other big issues over which Christians are divided today, and I have named what I think they are.

Yes, about the divinity of Christ, there is no division within Christianity about this, because those who disagree with it are not included in Christianity.

The biggest issues within Christianity can be covered by just a few topics. 1. Necessity of baptism. 2. Free will 3. eternal security. 4. saved by faith and/or works

 

[Ohioprof]

Another point on which most Christians today seem to agree, where they did not agree in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, is over the Arminian versus Calvinist views of salvation. Today, I think, the more Arminian view has mostly won out among Christians over the Calvinist view that nothing we do or believe can bring salvation. Most Christians today seem to reject predestination as a theological doctrine, whereas in the 17th century and into the 18th and 19th centuries, many Christians believed in predestination. The Puritans were Calvinists. The First Great Awakening, prior to the American Revolution, was largely Calvinist, and people like Jonathan Edwards embraced the doctrine of predestination. But the Second Great Awakening, in the early 19th century, was largely Arminian. The Methodists, who became very large in the United States in the 19th century, were Arminian, not Calvinist. There were still Calvinist denominations and preachers, and the famous abolitionist John Brown was a Calvinist in his theology. But the tide in the United States was moving toward Arminianism, toward the belief that one can be saved by faith through grace, and not simply by God's grace alone. In Arminian doctrine, one can and indeed must choose to accept grace and be saved; one was not simply chosen by God or not, with no opportunity for a person to choose the path of salvation.

 

[Ohioprof]

No, its a different God. I believe we can make gods out of anything, including ourselves and our desires. The God of the bible, the One that I follow, is loving, merciful, yet also angry and jealous. He also sent His only begotten for the sake of us all. If your God did not do that, then we do not worship the same one.

We'll just have to disagree on this point and move on, I think.

 

[Ohioprof]

Yes, about the divinity of Christ, there is no division within Christianity about this, because those who disagree with it are not included in Christianity.

The biggest issues within Christianity can be covered by just a few topics. 1. Necessity of baptism. 2. Free will 3. eternal security. 4. saved by faith and/or works

I disagree about whether these are the big divisions within Christianity today. However, I think we will need to debate and discuss them in another thread, as they are off topic for this subforum. Also, I need to start breakfast and wake up my little one, as usual on a week day.

You have a wonderful day, Jet. I'll catch you later.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

We'll just have to disagree on this point and move on, I think.

I can give you scriptural reference to why i believe I'm correct if you want, but honestly i doubt you are interested.

Take care.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I have no idea what the beliefs of the site owner are beyond what he says they are. And being gay is not a "lifestyle," as gay people have told you over and over, though you refuse to listen to what we say about our own lives.

It seems that you want to use majority rule to silence those who don't agree with you. If the site owner wants to do that, it's up to him. It won't benefit you or anyone else, frankly, to have those with whom you disagree silenced. Closing your ears to other people doesn't mean their ideas disappear or that they disappear. And closing your ears to other people means that you and others don't get to have your beliefs challenged, which is a disservice to you and to everyone.

We all need to hear the ideas of those with whom we disagree. Otherwise we become smug in our beliefs, certain that we know the "truth" and that those who disagree with us are wrong, or are "sinning" because they disagree. If we don't have our beliefs challenged regularly, we run the risk of believing that our ideas and beliefs are those of God, which is a dangerous thing to imagine. It produces intolerance, rigidity, a refusal to compromise, a refusal to accept people who are different. And taken to the extreme, those kinds of attitudes lead to persecution of unpopular minorities and even war or genocide. We protect our society and each other from that by engaging in dialogue and debate with people who are different from ourselves, who think differently, and whose beliefs are different from our own. And in doing that, we see those who are different as fellow human beings, as people who should be treated with dignity and compassion. I am not referring just to gay people here. I mean all other people. When we allow ourselves to hear the voices of those with whom we disagree, and when we engage in dialogue with people with whom we disagree, then we all see each other as fellow humans, each of us flawed and incomplete in our understanding. That's how we prevent each other from killing one another or persecuting one another or oppressing one another.

You were not even here when this forum was nicene only so your entire second para. is an assumption that is wrong.

This is the problem. You state that I just want to go with majority rule ?

Proves my point that this site is for nicenes and those who disagree with your lifestyle. what is wrong with the majority, those who were here first and made this site what it was, taking their site back from those who demand childish acceptance. What is wrong with us saying "Hey this is our forum and we want it back".

They gave you folks the opportunity to prove yourselves worthy over the last 6 months and you all failed the test big time.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

I have put the Christian argument forward with the reasons, if you want to suggest otherwise come up with some evidence, at the moment the views you are putting forward are not Christian.

 

[Chaplain David]

Yes, about the divinity of Christ, there is no division within Christianity about this, because those who disagree with it are not included in Christianity.

The biggest issues within Christianity can be covered by just a few topics. 1. Necessity of baptism. 2. Free will 3. eternal security. 4. saved by faith and/or works

I would throw in there as #5 Whether salvation can be lost or given away. Some say if you are once saved are you always saved.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,

I have put the Christian argument forward with the reasons, if you want to suggest otherwise come up with some evidence, at the moment the views you are putting forward are not Christian.

Telling me my beliefs are not Christian is against the rules of this subforum, as I understand those rules.

Your beliefs are not the only Christian beliefs. There are many Christians who disagree with some of your beliefs, notably your beliefs about "homosexuality."

 

[Ohioprof]

You were not even here when this forum was nicene only so your entire second para. is an assumption that is wrong.

This is the problem. You state that I just want to go with majority rule ?

Proves my point that this site is for nicenes and those who disagree with your lifestyle. what is wrong with the majority, those who were here first and made this site what it was, taking their site back from those who demand childish acceptance. What is wrong with us saying "Hey this is our forum and we want it back".

They gave you folks the opportunity to prove yourselves worthy over the last 6 months and you all failed the test big time.

The forums belong to the person who owns the site. He may agree with you, or he may partly agree with you. But he is the owner of the site, not you or me.

At this point, the owner has not declared that only people who believe in the Nicene Creed can post here, at least as I understand the new rule. The new rule says that people cannot advocate non-Nicene theology. Since the Nicene Creed does not address homosexuality, the new rule does not appear to affect discussion of or debate on this topic, at least not right now. We'll have to see what it means in practice, as the meaning of the new rule gets developed through its enforcement.

My question to you is why you apparently want to eliminate from these forums those whose views differ from yours? You in particular seem to enjoy debating people with different views. I suspect you would miss those of us who disagree with you if we were to leave, because then you would have no one to argue with, and you appear to enjoy the arguments.

There can't be much of a debate if you don't have at least two sides present to debate. A debate among people who already agree would be no debate at all, and it would be pretty dull.

 

[tulc]

I dont get your offense! He was being humourous! Where is everyone's sense of humour around here?

It probably left when all my friends started getting booted off.
tulc(since people can't win by argument, kicking the ones you don't agree with off will work also)

 

[Ohioprof]

Yes, about the divinity of Christ, there is no division within Christianity about this, because those who disagree with it are not included in Christianity.

The biggest issues within Christianity can be covered by just a few topics. 1. Necessity of baptism. 2. Free will 3. eternal security. 4. saved by faith and/or works

These are issues on which different denominations disagree nowadays, but I think they are not the biggest sources of division among Christians. I think the biggest sources of division are how Christians should understand and interpret the Bible and the specific issues of evolution, whether and how to accept gay people in the churches, and possibly abortion. I see a broad division having emerged between so-called fundamentalist Christians, or Biblical literalists, and more liberal or latitudinarian Christians who regard the scripture not as literal truth but as a guide and as subject to different interpretations.

Differences over these questions have not only separated denominations from each other; they have divided denominations internally.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Lee should fly you and me out to Honolulu or something and we could meet with him for a few hours and pan out all the new rules for this site.

Proof positive that, for the fundamentalists, this is not about Christianity at all.

It's all about power...period.

 

[Floatingaxe]

For the most part, Christians today agree on this point. It's not a major source of division within the faith right now, though it was in early Christianity. There are other big issues over which Christians are divided today, and I have named what I think they are.

Why wouldn't Christians agree on this point? Jesus IS God. It was and is never an issue among believers.

 

[Zaac]

I have seen no one advocating "anti-Christ doctrines" in the Debates on Homosexuality subforums.

You must not read your own posts.

And the new rule does not impose conformity in interpreting the Bible, or even insist that people rely on the Bible. You equate your interpretation of the Bible with what "God says," but it's not what God says.

YOU equate me repeating what God's Word says to my interpretation.

I'm just not amused with that tired little attempt at chicanery. Yall think playing that lil "it's your interpretation" card changes what Gods Word says.

As you see, the new rules do impose conformity on interpreting the Bible and Christians will be aligned. If it were not an issue of conformity in interpretation, there would be no creed.

The Bible says 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim. 3:14-15

we know that Scripture is true and that creed shows conformity to the discernment of the Holy Spirit delivering Truth vs the lies of the enemy.

It's what you think God says. All anyone has is what they think God says, or what they think is true. No one here speaks for God or has the "truth."

That might be all YOU have.

And you may not be here to speak for God. But I am a Saint of the Most High. I'm His earthly embassary. I'm a modern day deliverer of His Truth. I speak for Him because He has commissioned me to. I deliver the Truth because He has given me truth.

There are stark differences between people who know Christ and people who don't. If youre indwelled by the Holy Spirit, you've got the Deliverer of Truth.

So YOU may not have the Truth. I certainly do.

 

[Floatingaxe]

You must not read your own posts.

YOU equate me repeating what God's Word says to my interpretation.

I'm just not amused with that tired little attempt at chicanery. Yall think playing that lil "it's your interpretation" card changes what Gods Word says.

As you see, the new rules do impose conformity on interpreting the Bible and Christians will be aligned. If it were not an issue of conformity in interpretation, there would be no creed.

The Bible says 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim. 3:14-15

we know that Scripture is true and that creed shows conformity to the discernment of the Holy Spirit delivering Truth vs the lies of the enemy.

That might be all YOU have.

And you may not be here to speak for God. But I am a Saint of the Most High. I'm His earthly embassary. I'm a modern day deliverer of His Truth. I speak for Him because He has commissioned me to. I deliver the Truth because He has given me truth.

There are stark differences between people who know Christ and people who don't. If youre indwelled by the Holy Spirit, you've got the Deliverer of Truth.

So YOU may not have the Truth. I certainly do.

Reps when able!

 

[Floatingaxe]

It probably left when all my friends started getting booted off.
tulc(since people can't win by argument, kicking the ones you don't agree with off will work also)

You can make new friends.

Axe(it'll be a better sandbox without the cat poop)




(For all of you who are ready to REPORT!--I am joking!)

 

[tulc]

You can make new friends.

Why bother?
tulc(tired of seeing his friends driven off)