So, who is really responsible...

[OldWiseGuy]

Jew=Judah, not Israel.

They took the name "Israel" because it has a better 'ring' to it than "Judah", and because they didn't think any descendants of the other tribes were still around. The fact is that they improperly appropriated the name Israel, replacing their tribal name with the greater national name.

 

[Received]

I don't think any of the nations involved are paragons of virtue.

Most definitely. But that doesn't mean that one is more responsible for stopping their criminality than another.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Jew=Judah, not Israel.

They took the name "Israel" because it has a better 'ring' to it than "Judah", and because they didn't think any descendants of the other tribes were still around. The fact is that they improperly appropriated the name Israel, replacing their tribal name with the greater national name.

You sound a bit... off there.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You sound a bit... off there.

Biblical history and prophecy are valid references.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Most definitely. But that doesn't mean that one is more responsible for stopping their criminality than another.

 

[True Scotsman]

...in war, for the death of a civilian?

The soldier who pulls the trigger? The officer who deployed him? The politician who committed them? The enemy who provoked them?

The question is prompted by the deaths of some 1200 people in Gaza, mostly civilians, many of whom were non-combatant women and children.

And, I am getting tired of Israel blaming their disproportionate violence on Hamas. I am not a Hamas supporter; firing off rockets in the hope of killing Jews is not an activity I would encourage or endorse. But I think the morality of the situation to be more complex and nuanced than Israeli apologists would have us believe. I wonder if anyone else here is looking for a principle that assigns appropriately moral responsibility where such responsibility is due, in a situation such as we have in the middle-east?

Best wishes, Strivax.

In any war innocents are going to be killed, it's unavoidable. The responsibility for those deaths lies squarely on the shoulders of the party who initiates violence. Every country has a right to defend itself by any and all means it deems necessary to end the violence and protect its citizens.

To call for a "proportionate" response from the defending side of a conflict is a recipe for unending tit for tat conflict.

We did not win World War Two by giving a proportionate response.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Biblical history and prophecy are valid references.

Ok, I will be blunt, you sounded anti semantic

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ok, I will be blunt, you sounded anti semantic

I criticize my kids too, but that doesn't mean I hate them.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I criticize my kids too, but that doesn't mean I hate them.

You are associating the Jews with Judah

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You are associating the Jews with Judah

My perspective of the Jews is more biblical than secular.

 

[Noxot]

...in war, for the death of a civilian?

The soldier who pulls the trigger? The officer who deployed him? The politician who committed them? The enemy who provoked them?

The question is prompted by the deaths of some 1200 people in Gaza, mostly civilians, many of whom were non-combatant women and children.

And, I am getting tired of Israel blaming their disproportionate violence on Hamas. I am not a Hamas supporter; firing off rockets in the hope of killing Jews is not an activity I would encourage or endorse. But I think the morality of the situation to be more complex and nuanced than Israeli apologists would have us believe. I wonder if anyone else here is looking for a principle that assigns appropriately moral responsibility where such responsibility is due, in a situation such as we have in the middle-east?

Best wishes, Strivax.

everyone who does not embrace freedom and loving all people is responsible. people are controlled by vary many different sins and so the natural conclusion that happens is that evil occurs. by being set free internally and viewing reality from a heavenly point of view rather than hellish... evil would go away and only heaven would remain. for some reason people are not fully willing that this happen which is why there are still many kinds of evils in this world.

ultimately, a perception less than Gods is the cause of all suffering and evils.

when freedom is not there, fate takes over. fate is freedom but in sleep mode. you will keep repeating the same mistakes until you use your own freedom to do something different. freedom is a responsibility that many do not desire to take upon themselves. thus, they are slaves to that which can overpower them. some are overpowered by idiots that give evil orders. others are overpowered by their love for money. others are overpowered by love for their nation. others by their religion. the different forms of slavery are legion and they are the real enemy.