So what's the difference between So. Baptist and Calvinist?

[JohnDB]

Do you know how loud your ego sounds in this post? Nothing Christ like there! That's a shame I was just asking a question.

Sorry,
You are coming in on the back half of a long standing debate between myself and many of the calvinistic members of this website.

They wish to dominate...I don't.

The SBC of late has made many decisions that I am not in any sort of agreement with...one of which is about Lifeway.

Where Max Lucado was once respectable (albeit Church of Christ) I could agree with some of the points that he had made in his books.

But there were many points in his books that I strongly disagree with. Anyone that knows scripture well also will. Max will regularly ignore blatant literary devices seen in the bible and historicle truths about people's character to make a point. (where the point may be fine and true...the method does great violence to scripture in the meantime...and Max is more than smart enough to know what he is doing. I seriously doubt that I am the only one to say anything to him about it either)

"Let us do wrong so that good may result-their condemnation is surely deserved" (you know where this comes from now don't you?)

Calvinism has been trying to get recognized by the SBC for a long time...every convention they do ask...and get defeated. Just like those that "speak in tounges" or have a "private prayer language". They too are not recognized by the SBC...but they wish to be.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Calvinism has been trying to get recognized by the SBC for a long time...every convention they do ask...and get defeated.

Where do you get your sources?
This is a load of bunk. Get defeated???? ask for recognition???
READ the BF&M2000, it seems "recognized" to an extent already!!!
Where do you come up with this stuff??????

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Heres' a quote from current and reelected SBC Prez Hunt concerning Calvinism in the SBC:

On the continuing banter between Calvinists and those critical of the doctrine that attempts to describe God's work in salvation, Hunt said the debate has raged for more than 400 years and is part of Baptist history.

"We have wonderful men and women on both sides. I think the Baptist tent is large enough for both," he said.

SOURCE

 

[DD2008]

The SBC of late has made many decisions that I am not in any sort of agreement with...one of which is about Lifeway.

.

Is it better for you to stay in the SBC and upset Baptists by inventing false histories and trying to change it to your Wesleyan model or simply just join the Methodist Church whose views you espouse?

 

[JohnDB]

Just because I don't neccesarily agree in their decisions...or who they put in leadership of these institutions doesn't mean that I should leave my church...or the denomination.

I actually happen to be in the majority of believers of the SBC...calvinsim and charismatic believers are the extreme minority...I don't know why they want in...but they do. And they seem desperate to gain it.

But we baptists have been tolerant and inclusive to even those who wish to take over...doesn't mean that we will let them...

And the changes that have been made that I don't agree with goes along the lines of inclusivity, which has been a major part of Baptist history...contrasted with the history of calvinistic followers who have been a little less inclusive (to put it mildly).

Annie Armstrong, the Cooperative program, and the best literature in existance were the main draws for so many to join the SBC. As well as the independance each church enjoys.

My opinion is not able to speak for all...it is one voice..of a church whos pastor and other delegates speak for what they think...which isn't neccesarily what I think. And the delegates aren't able to speak for all...nor is the chairman.

That is the "Baptist" convention...it has no heirchy.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

deleted, nevermind.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

We cannot be truth-defenders if we are not truth-tellers. Too many Calvinists arrogantly dismiss many non-Calvinists as Arminians at best and Pelagians at worst. Too many non-Calvinists inappropriately brand Calvinism as hyper-Calvinism, “extreme” Calvinism. IMHO both sides in the SBC do need an attitude adjustment.
We do not have to agree about Calvinism. But we also do not have to divide over Calvinism. My prayer is that Southern Baptists will not become distracted by our differences, but rather will cooperate in our shared priorities: the gospel lived out in Baptist churches that share common core theological convictions and a passion for the Great Commission.
This is now a denomination that has given itself clear and simple instructions: Get to the task of world missions, not the task of building a denominational culture.
The patient teaching of the Gospel and church-centered theology by the Founders Ministries and 9Marks has paid off in more fruit than can be put in a basket. Hundreds and hundreds of young people, hungry to hear how to build a Gospel centered, God honoring, missionary focused church. It is astonishing. It may not be revival, but it is a solid outcome that will make a huge difference for a small number of churches.

Thanks for listening.

SOURCE

 

[the particular baptist]

Calvinism has been trying to get recognized by the SBC for a long time...every convention they do ask...and get defeated. Just like those that "speak in tounges" or have a "private prayer language". They too are not recognized by the SBC...but they wish to be.

The outright falsehoods in your comments are becoming downright intolerable. The SBC was founded by calvinists, every one of them. Do yourself a favor and read the latest Baptist Faith and Message.

 

[JohnDB]

Calvinism does have some good points...
They are the only theology system that does give almost proper respect to the Sovereignty of God. (it does go too far in making us out to be little more than programmable robots at the whim of either Heavenly or Satanic forces IMHO)

And it makes those of us who have tasted of how Good God can be much sharper in the meat of scripture. How to see the forest of truths instead of getting caught up in the trees in the way of the forest of revelations of scripture.

But the main contention that I have with this theology system...is that it is a system. Man has yet to ever get a system correct.

Then there is the Love that God has for us. IMHO calvinism tends to downplay God's deep and compasionate love for us while promoting other aspects and seemingly whimsical actions of God in the past to promote other characteristics of God that simply aren't true. They might be true of man...and man was made in the image of God...but God isn't made in the image of man...and by promoting these things it does just that.

My God is bigger in that He doesn't need programmable robots. We have free will. God can out maneuver us any and every time. We won't go climbing up a mountain so we can melt snow for water when we are camped right by a creek or river.

The Bible is full of stories of choices, compassion, longsuffering, intimate conversations, and humility...Calvinism tends to look more at power, Sovereignty, and election. (I.E. some have won a lottery and are special and others aren't)

A lot of little choices add up to where, when the time comes, a person can make the right choice or the wrong choice. All of the "heroes of the faith" in times past made a lot of right choices even if they appeared to have made some major blunders as well. When God chose them to do a special task for Him every last one of them said, "You need to find someone else, I ain't good enough." from a real heart-felt conviction.
I don't find Calvinism ever promoting that...as evidenced by those that subscribe to it in lifestyle or actions.

So...I will take the "road less traveled" and have no real descriptional name tag. Won't be a part of any organization. Won't subscribe to any one man's idea of God. I realize that many do...for good reasons...but it simply isn't my "calling"...and it hasn't been other's either.

NoRaptureBaptist's latest Post has a lot of merit to it...
But when it comes down to it...whom shall we send? An armenian, a pelagiaist, or a calvinist?

How about a simple Baptist? Kinda like a simple fisherman...
just a thought.

 

[trentlogain2]

Calvinism on the Rise...in the SBC | CrossLeft