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so... What is the Truth ?
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CardinalBaseball
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Amazing, isn't it?shernren said:Yay! Finally something that YECs and TEs can agree on!
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Crusadar
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As I said, a metaphysical concept.
If truth is confined only to the metaphysical realm then truth becomes relative. It is Christ's exclusive claim that He is not only a way but the way and not only a truth but the truth - that tells us of the absoluteness of truth. Since Christ is truth incarnate to say that truth is only a metaphysical concept is to deny that Christ was never a real person but merely a concept.
If truth is confined only to the metaphysical realm then truth becomes relative. It is Christ's exclusive claim that He is not only a way but the way and not only a truth but the truth - that tells us of the absoluteness of truth. Since Christ is truth incarnate to say that truth is only a metaphysical concept is to deny that Christ was never a real person but merely a concept.
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Stinker
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Truth (as is being discussed here) is 3 a: the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality. According to Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 10th ed.
With each passing year, more and more scientific evidence is coming to light that there was a creator.
It is the same with the Bible. With more digging, more proof is unearthed that the Bible is historically accurate.
With each passing year, more and more scientific evidence is coming to light that there was a creator.
It is the same with the Bible. With more digging, more proof is unearthed that the Bible is historically accurate.
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Micaiah
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I do not agree that truth is a metaphysical concept only or is beyond the realm of science.
Trees have leaves.
That leaf is green.
That leaf is decaying.
Are all statements of scientific fact or are the truth.
A butcher slaughter a sheep and removes its shin. In this context the statement "this is a bone" is a statement of fact, and is the truth.
The problem occurs when you start to investigate things that have little evidence from which to derive explanations or statements of fact.
A scientist finds what looks like a fossilized dinosaur bone.
"This appears to be a fossilized dinosaur bone" is a true statement but is not as definate as the previous statements. If the scientist said "This is a dinosaur bone" he may or may not be telling the truth. The truth is more uncertain than previous statements.
If the scientist claimed "This is a dinosaur bone that is 80 million years old" he has made a statement of fact. That implies that he has the scientific evidence to support the claim. What many people are growing increasingly resentful and sceptical of is when statements such as these are made as dogmatic assertions of the truth in much the same way as the early statements made above.
It would be more correct to say "Scientists have found what they hypothesize to be an 80 million year old fossilised dinosaur bone". Or maybe, if the bone was part of a well preserved dinosaur skeleton scientists could confidently say "This is the thigh bone of a dinosaur hypothesized to be 80 million years old." It may even be theoretically impossible to say with absolute certainty that "this is the shin bone of a dinosaur".
That is true, but that is not all God says about Creation. It is important that Christians hear the 'whole counsel of God' on the topic.
Trees have leaves.
That leaf is green.
That leaf is decaying.
Are all statements of scientific fact or are the truth.
A butcher slaughter a sheep and removes its shin. In this context the statement "this is a bone" is a statement of fact, and is the truth.
The problem occurs when you start to investigate things that have little evidence from which to derive explanations or statements of fact.
A scientist finds what looks like a fossilized dinosaur bone.
"This appears to be a fossilized dinosaur bone" is a true statement but is not as definate as the previous statements. If the scientist said "This is a dinosaur bone" he may or may not be telling the truth. The truth is more uncertain than previous statements.
If the scientist claimed "This is a dinosaur bone that is 80 million years old" he has made a statement of fact. That implies that he has the scientific evidence to support the claim. What many people are growing increasingly resentful and sceptical of is when statements such as these are made as dogmatic assertions of the truth in much the same way as the early statements made above.
It would be more correct to say "Scientists have found what they hypothesize to be an 80 million year old fossilised dinosaur bone". Or maybe, if the bone was part of a well preserved dinosaur skeleton scientists could confidently say "This is the thigh bone of a dinosaur hypothesized to be 80 million years old." It may even be theoretically impossible to say with absolute certainty that "this is the shin bone of a dinosaur".
That is true, but that is not all God says about Creation. It is important that Christians hear the 'whole counsel of God' on the topic.
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shernren
you are not reading this.
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But "scientifically, that fossil hypothesised to be a dinosaur bone is 80 million years old" is correct, assuming (and this is often indeed the case) there is no other scientific explanation for the current appearance of the bone.
If you're uncertain because you haven't seen the dinosaur alive 80 million years ago, then I suggest you should be uncertain that light has a finite speed, space curves, atoms make up molecules that make up the cells of your body, and that your computer is powered by an unending stream of energetic electrons. After all, you've never seen those either.
Like what scientists have apparently heard God telling us about how it came to be?
If you're uncertain because you haven't seen the dinosaur alive 80 million years ago, then I suggest you should be uncertain that light has a finite speed, space curves, atoms make up molecules that make up the cells of your body, and that your computer is powered by an unending stream of energetic electrons. After all, you've never seen those either.
Like what scientists have apparently heard God telling us about how it came to be?
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GodBoy809
Servant of Christ
the truth is that their is no absolute truth. (lol which by saying that is an absolute truth..i love this sentence)
Truth and what we believe depend greatly on our own Point of View. (good ol' Obi-won from starwars)
i believe both of these to be truth. but..that is my point of view.
Truth and what we believe depend greatly on our own Point of View. (good ol' Obi-won from starwars)
i believe both of these to be truth. but..that is my point of view.
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artybloke
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They are statements of fact, they are true, but they are not "truth." Truth in the philosophical sense concerns ultimate reality. "Trees have leaves" is a truism, that is, it is true but so what.
Ultimate truth, about the existence or non-existence of God for instance, or the existence or non-existence of the soul, eternal life, the "spiritual realm" whatever that means, is not something that can be tested using scientific method. It is therefore metaphysica (beyond the physical)l.
And yes, that does mean that there is no certain way of confirming it. That's why we have faith: walking a tightrope over a chasm of uncertainty.
The existence of dinosaur bones can be tested using scientific method, however, and if all tests of that fossil show that the likelihood is that it belonged to a dinosaur 70 million years before, then to all intents and purposes, it is factual until it is proven non-factual.
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artybloke
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Much that this sounds terribly comforting, it's not true. Science does not deal in metaphysics, because it can't test for non-physical reality. You can say, as a believer, that this wonderful bit of nature that we've just discovered must surely reveal the glory of God, and you may well be right. But there is no physical evidence of the existence of God that is not also evidence for his non-existence to those who don't have, or don't want, faith. Anyone care to explain away the ichneumonon wasp?
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Buho
Regular Member
Hey all. Neat approach to the subject. Here is a summary of what you all said:
"What is the truth?"
""Truth" is a metaphysical concept that can't be investigated by science."
"God is truth."
"The Bible is from God, so it is truth too."
"Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life."
"God created the earth and everything in it -- something YECs and TEs can agree on."
Here are my thoughts, to continue this line:
God is metaphysical, and can't be investigated by science.
God created the earth in ways that can't be investigated by science.
After more thought, the last connection seems a bit weak.
"What is the truth?"
""Truth" is a metaphysical concept that can't be investigated by science."
"God is truth."
"The Bible is from God, so it is truth too."
"Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life."
"God created the earth and everything in it -- something YECs and TEs can agree on."
Here are my thoughts, to continue this line:
God is metaphysical, and can't be investigated by science.
God created the earth in ways that can't be investigated by science.
After more thought, the last connection seems a bit weak.
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shernren
you are not reading this.
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Is "trees have leaves" a truism? If trees are defined in a way that does not depend on their having leaves (for example autotrophic organisms that undergo secondary growth?) , then "Trees have leaves" is a scientifically testable statement.
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