So what exactly is a Moderate Christian anyway?

[MrJim]

Maybe the pictures of the be-speedo'ed David Hasselhoff had something to do with it?

that's just wrong dude, my eyes are watering from the burning sensation created by your verbal photograph

...

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Maybe the pictures of the be-speedo'ed David Hasselhoff had something to do with it?

That your way of asking for more?

You'll be delighted to know you were the sole recipient

Depends on if those conservatives are truly conservative. But that's an argument for another thread.

k Probably a valid discussion, actually.

What I suspect might be the problem could merely be the differences between UK conservatism and US conservatism, I hope I can say this without getting beaten up but from my outsiders point of view conservatism in the US goes to extremes which are unheard of in the UK or most places for that matter, our friends over the pond don't do things by halves. In UK standards from what I know of your theology you are very much a conservative.

Yah, Criada and I have discussed that a little. I guess it's all so fluid, it's possibly hard to self-label, and even harder to label others. And yet...

that's just wrong dude, my eyes are watering from the burning sensation created by your verbal photograph

...

Heh, you want it, too? I think I still have it somewhere. Not at the press of a button or anything...

 

[BelindaP]

k Probably a valid discussion, actually.

I'd be interested in having it sometime, but we should probably wait for things to cool down for a while.

 

[ReformedChapin]

So it's pretty much reverts back to however calls themselves a moderate

 

[BelindaP]

Pretty much.

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

More hmm. I unequivocally affirm the CC SoF... what I disagree with is the new approach of a few and the change in CC's direction in terms of approach.

As do I... You and I are pretty much of the same mind theologically speaking from what I can see. I find myself agreeing with your posts more than not.

For me (and I've had multiple theologically conservative pastors agree with me) while I consider my self conservative theologically, I often find that some "conservatives" get too hung up on certain issues that don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Based on that I feel that I have what many may consider "moderate" views.

edie

Good point...

 

[higgs2]

Yeah, this is basically a forum of self-identification. Eventually we'll have a survey and a breakdown of what various members think, doctrinally, and in practice. But even then the results won't be a basis for membership.

In practice, most people are pretty conservative, theologically (as far as I can tell). There are a few self-professed liberals. And at least one person for whom I have absolutely no idea. But regardless of any of that, whatever you may think, if you tend to identify yourself as a moderate, you are welcome to call youself a moderate here.

I started to get pretty depressed, even though I had a feeling that the poll thingy would happen. Then I read this post and I started feeling hopeful again.

 

[higgs2]

Can I be a Athiest Christian Liberal Conservative Moderate?

How is this helping?

 

[ReformedChapin]

How is this helping?

Showing how subjective a moderate is being defined here.

 

[Tenebrae]

Showing how subjective a moderate is being defined here.

Dont you mean excrement stirring?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

What I suspect might be the problem could merely be the differences between UK conservatism and US conservatism, I hope I can say this without getting beaten up but from my outsiders point of view conservatism in the US goes to extremes which are unheard of in the UK or most places for that matter, our friends over the pond don't do things by halves. In UK standards from what I know of your theology you are very much a conservative.

Uh huh. I'm an American, but you could say I'm a UK conservative because I'm conservative like C.S. Lewis, not like Jerry Falwell.

For me (and I've had multiple theologically conservative pastors agree with me) while I consider my self conservative theologically, I often find that some "conservatives" get too hung up on certain issues that don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Based on that I feel that I have what many may consider "moderate" views.

That describes me too.

 

[higgs2]

Showing how subjective a moderate is being defined here.

Thanks but I think we can get this one our own. Is it okay if we consult with you on occasion if we get confused or need some clarification? That way you can focus on the forums you find most important but be a available to assist us should we need you again.

 

[Catherineanne]

For myself, I don't like the thought of being between the Liberals and the Conservatives. I don't think it adequately describes my view or distinguishes them from other people who don't fit into those categories. The first thing I would argue is in not describing Christianity in terms of these two camps - Liberal and Conservative - and then identifying oneself with respect to them.

I don't want to be too pejorative towards my more Liberal and Conservative brethren, so as an analogy that works on one level (and one level only) saying that a Moderate is between Liberalism and Conservatism seems to me quite like saying that Trinitarianism is between Sabellianism and Arianism. Again, not that Liberals and Conservatives are basically Sabellians and Arians but you get the idea: I wouldn't define my positions in terms of what someone else thinks.

I haven't got the foggiest idea what a moderate Christian is, because to me 'Christian' is an absolute*, and absolutes cannot be modified (cf moderately dead), but I agree wholeheartedly with this post.



* Spot the fundamentalist

 

[Catherineanne]

A moderate is someone who reads the scripts of the liberal and the conservative and whips out the red pen.

I'm a moderate, and didn't even know it!!

(Cathy edits everything!! )

 

[Catherineanne]

I am confused.

We have:
Extreme Liberalism
Liberalism
Moderate
Conservative
Legalism
Extreme Legalism

How many levels do we have?

As many as it takes before we feel happy with one another.

When I am talking with another Christian, I make certain assumptions about them which I would not make when talking with a Moslem, or with an agnostic. So much is easy.

But once the conversation gets going, certain things can happen very quickly. Then (Lord, have mercy) I judge the spirituality of the person I am talking to, depending on the tone of their reply. I am trying to be honest here, but I think we all do this. The other person does not say to me 'I am a X Christian'. They do not need to. No more than an Irishman, when talking to me, needs to tell me he is Irish. I can tell from his accent, and I can tell because he refers to going to Dublin for his holidays to visit his grandmother; there are clues, in other words.

The problem comes when those clues become the trigger for me to alter my behaviour in relation to this other person. I pull down the 'Irishman' file from my head, and refer to its experiences, and use them to aid communication. If I have friends who are Irish, I can talk about them. If I have been to Ireland, I can talk about that.

I am rambling a bit. What I am trying to say is that we do not any of us label ourselves. The labels come from the outside. Nobody gives himself a name; it comes from his parents.

I use the term 'liberal' of myself because it will save anyone the trouble of asking me to play Bible Poker. But reading here, a lot of the comments made of moderate Christianity are true of me, and my journey of faith. I suspect that if I looked closely enough at conservatism, some of that would also be true of me, because much of my approach to liturgy and worship is very conservative indeed, founded in contemplative prayer and gregorian chant.

I suspect a label is not necessarily a liberating thing. We use it as shorthand, to define something of ourselves, but the minute that is defined, it becomes not true, because we can all be exceptions, and all be paradoxical at times.

I don't believe we need modifiers to the word 'Christian', and yet I use them myself, but only of myself. I myself would regard myself as being more comprehensible with the label 'liberal'. But it is not actually who I am. Far more true is 'Catholic'.

Which means that, true to form, I appear to have contributed lots of words and nothing substantive to this discussion.

 

[Catherineanne]

I am taking a breather from Foru.ms.

Bye Bye

God be with you, Jim. You will be missed.

 

[Catherineanne]

great response~everyone is someone else's liberal & someone else's conservative.

By even being on the internet the absolute most conservative member here at 4U is considered liberal by my plain mennonite friends

Correct. I tend to be 'liberal' here (this forum) but that is a shorthand reflection of my position in relation to other theology here, rather than who I am.

Although I started thinking that whatever a moderate Christian is, it can't be me, maybe I was wrong. But if moderate means losing the 'liberal' red flag to the conservative bulls, then life would really get too dull for words.

 

[Catherineanne]

Well, I think that depends upon the person. Everyone has a point of reference. I consider myself moderate in my views because I believe it is wrong to impose my views on others. Many conservatives believe it is their duty to do so. However, I'm not a liberal either, because I don't think that everyone should choose a view that is right for them and they'll be just fine.

This is the problem. In defining others, we judge them. Not just you, BP; all of us.

Liberals think everyone should choose a view that is right for them and they will be just fine. Do liberals really think this way? I don't. This is a conservative judgement of liberalism, and is a misconception.

Conservatives think it is their duty to impose their views on other people. Do conservatives really think this? I am not sure they do. I think their approach is more to do with their duty to Christ, rather than their duty to 'impose' on other people.

Moderates believe it is wrong to impose their views on others. Do they? And if liberals and conservatives happen to think that they should not impose, does this make them moderates? In which case, what are the labels for?

None of these categories is mutually exclusive, and all of them apply to all of us some of the time. I can be conservative, liberal, moderate, ultra liberal, heck, I can even be fundamentalist in some things.

I think what I am saying is that we can, if we like, call ourselves moderate. But we should do so only in relation to ourselves and Christ, not in relation to other Christians, where it risks becoming a value judgement, rather than a descriptor.

 

[Catherineanne]

I see the moderate thing more as an attitude rather than any set beliefs. My beliefs are pretty much conservative - but I don't feel it is right to berate people who disagree. If the basics are there, we can get along - and even, perhaps, discuss our differences without being nasty to one another.

Conservatives berate those who disagree with them.

Conservatives can't discuss without being nasty to one another.

Poor old conservatives. What have they done to deserve this?

So now moderate equals conservative views without the bad manners.

Maybe this is more to do with conservatives reclaiming conservatism from the bad mannered element, which is not conservatism. Conservatism is about respect for God, respect for what he says, and respect for humanity. It is nothing to do with imposing anything on anyone, or being a bully.

 

[Speculative]

Catherineanne